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It's not hard to understand. Christ is really present with us, always. No need for a wafer or wine. However, if we wish to remember Christ's atoning sacrifice, we can symbolically remember by eating a piece of bread and drinking a cup of wine/juice to remember as a community of believers. What...

You are wrong in your judgment of me. Second, you have a false understanding of Jesus words to his disciples. It is not my intent to move you off the stumbling block of your traditions.

Arsenios, what you say here is your church speak. I take these words of yours to say you eat the real flesh and drink the real blood of Jesus. Either that or Jesus flesh was made of bread and wine flowed through his veins. Those are the literal meanings of "is."

It would be interesting to see how many church goers actually know what a denomination is.

There is a lot of bad music in most hymnals. Many are empty of theology and simply call for an emotional response. In that regard there is little change in modern worship. Bethel Music is a cult, yet many contemporary churches sing their songs. Just recently a lead song writer at Hillsong sadly...

Read all my posts to see why I reject your theories. This isn't hard, yet you keep at it.

I believe we can reply as we wish. If I feel I need to repeat then I believe I shall repeat. You do not have to respond. You have that option.

Close the thread if you wish. You don't agree with me. I don't agree with you. Positions have been provided. We all know where everyone stands and have made our decisions. Tell the mods to close this thread. I'm fine with that if you are.

I can say the same thing back to you. Since no Lutheran can explain how real presence isn't actually real presence, but still can be coined real presence anyway, it seems that you have nothing new to add and it's time for you to bow out of the discussion. I have given people ample time to show...

I understand, which is why none of you actually believe in real presence. Real doesn't mean real. I have already stated that Jesus promises to really be present with us, regardless of whether we are partaking of communion or not. So the spiritual real presence is accepted by all Christians...

You believe in your church dogma regarding what real presence is. I'm saying that view is not actually real presence. It is something other. Some view where real isn't actually real.

Real presence is very clear. The bread really becomes Jesus human flesh. The wine really becomes Jesus human blood. Hence the term: real presence. Why people try to twist it into something else where real isn't really real is what is not clear.

Both these verses say "do this in remembrance of me." The Bible agrees with me. Jesus said it and Paul repeated it. And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” ~ Luke 22:19...

Real presence means real presence. Real human flesh and real human blood. If you don't want real then stop using the term real when you talk about presence. Call it spiritually real presence if you wish, but acknowledge that for Lutherans, is does not literally mean is.

That is empty talk and of no value to the conversation. If you wish to dump it into the mystery bin, go ahead, but that doesn't address real presence. It means you haven't got a clue and you are okay with that.

Correct. He just said "do this in remembrance of me." Paul confirms it. No real human flesh. No real human blood. Just, "do this in remembrance of me."

So it is the real flesh and real blood of Jesus. That is real presence. Write a book trying to say something else and you will have a book that is wrong. Real presence means real flesh and real blood. What Lutherans prescribe is something else.

This has nothing to do with Zwingli. Either you take the passages entirely literally or you don't. I have expressed the legitimate contextual reasons for why I take Jesus and Paul's words to be figurative. You claim to take them literally, but not really. You don't believe the bread really...

I have responded by stating you are wrong. God doesn't deliver forgiveness in sacraments. That is your church dogma talking, not the Bible. Your sacraments are a form of legalism, not grace, as I pointed out from Romans 11. I don't expect the conversation will advance. You will not give up your...

We are having a discussion in an attempt to understand the positions of the others. I have no dreams of convincing you to change. I merely explain how I receive your discussion and thus see the contradictions in your position. You return a similar response to my position. It is enlightening, not...