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  1. Origen

    What do you think about Jude quoting Enoch?

    You are 100% correct and the apostle Paul himself PROVES your point. It didn't bother Paul one bit to quote Menander to the Corinthians along with Scripture. (1 Cor. 15:29-34). Otherwise, what do people mean by being baptized on behalf of the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are...
  2. Origen

    What do you think about Jude quoting Enoch?

    You had better get word to the councils Hippo and Carthage about Jude because they don't list 1 Enoch as canonical. If Jude did accept it as canonical, as you seem to be claiming, then it follows that Hippo and Carthage canon list is wrong. If the councils Hippo and Carthage set the canon, as...
  3. Origen

    What do you think about Jude quoting Enoch?

    It is NOT word-for-word verbatim. Here are the Greek texts for both. Ἰδοὺ ἦλθεν κύριος ἐν ἁγίαις μυριάσιν αὐτοῦ ποιῆσαι κρίσιν κατὰ πάντων καὶ ἐλέγξαι πᾶσαν ψυχὴν περὶ πάντων τῶν ἔργων ἀσεβείας αὐτῶν ὧν ἠσέβησαν καὶ περὶ πάντων τῶν σκληρῶν ὧν ἐλάλησαν...
  4. Origen

    New Person

    Hello and welcome
  5. Origen

    In what ways does the Apocrypha point to Jesus as Savior?

    Yet we know for fact which books he believed were part of the canon and which books were not. "Of the Old Testament, therefore, first of all there have been handed down five books of Moses: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy; then Joshua the son of Nun; the book of Judges together...
  6. Origen

    In what ways does the Apocrypha point to Jesus as Savior?

    Irrelevant! Rufinus clearly tells us which books he believes are part of the canon and which are not. And the books of the apocrypha he excludes from his canon list. Nothing more than semantics. Rufinus clearly tells us which books he believes are part of the canon can which are not. And...
  7. Origen

    In what ways does the Apocrypha point to Jesus as Savior?

    Again the facts remain the same, and nothing in your post changes that. Rufinus and Jerome had a falling out. They were no longer friends. Nevertheless Rufinus canon list (dated to after their falling out) names the same books as those found in Jerome. Rufinus also goes on to make it clear that...
  8. Origen

    In what ways does the Apocrypha point to Jesus as Savior?

    Which means absolutely nothing even if it were true. Long before Jerome there were many others who rejected those books such as Melito, Cyril of Jerusalem, Athanasius of Alexandria (who was patriarch of Alexandria birth place of the LXX), Gregory of Nazianzus, Amphilochius of Iconium, and...
  9. Origen

    In what ways does the Apocrypha point to Jesus as Savior?

    By the time of the source you quote, Rufinus was NO LONGER good friends with Jerome. They had long since had a falling out. This fact must be taking into consideration when reading the text. I find it interesting your comment is most misleading on that point. Give we that know exactly which...
  10. Origen

    In what ways does the Apocrypha point to Jesus as Savior?

    Well done! You have provided a complete refutation of his totally speculative and fallacious claims.
  11. Origen

    In what ways does the Apocrypha point to Jesus as Savior?

    That is the difference between you and I. Which ever view one takes, I care about honesty, accuracy, and academic integrity. That is my goal.
  12. Origen

    In what ways does the Apocrypha point to Jesus as Savior?

    I could not agree more. Honesty, accuracy, and academic integrity are of the upmost importance. The absolute truth should be the standard we all live by no matter how much it hurts. Anything less is a slap in the fact of God HIMSELF.
  13. Origen

    In what ways does the Apocrypha point to Jesus as Savior?

    The facts are: (1) Jerome does not explain why he believes it. (2) There is no record of such an event. Something is NOT common sense if there is NO reason\evidence to believe it. There is zero historical evidence for your claims. First of all you are overstating what Jerome said. Second...
  14. Origen

    In what ways does the Apocrypha point to Jesus as Savior?

    We all know what it says but it does nothing to support your spurious claims.
  15. Origen

    In what ways does the Apocrypha point to Jesus as Savior?

    No reason to refute something that has no evidence to support it. Your claims are pure fantasy without s shed of historical support. No one has to disprove something for which there is zero evidence. All you have are your make-believe stories.
  16. Origen

    In what ways does the Apocrypha point to Jesus as Savior?

    There is zero evidence Jerome wanted to exclude them simply "because the Jews told him that these books don’t belong." You are fabricating events for which there is NO historical support. No church father makes such a claim, and we have many witnesses\sources on the council of Nicaea. There...
  17. Origen

    In what ways does the Apocrypha point to Jesus as Savior?

    Not true. I have never said one way or the other. I simply point out the facts (i.e. historically what Jerome actually said or did with verifiable primary sources). The facts in this case are: (1) Jerome does not explain why he believes it. (2) There is no record of such an event.
  18. Origen

    In what ways does the Apocrypha point to Jesus as Savior?

    That goes without saying about EVERYONE (except Jesus). It is very assuming that NOW you want to believe Jerome.
  19. Origen

    In what ways does the Apocrypha point to Jesus as Savior?

    Or maybe he was just plain wrong.
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