Iam not going to be shadow ( lukewarm ) .
- Thread starter Holy999
- Start date
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2015
- Messages
- 33,784
- Age
- 58
- Gender
- Female
- Religious Affiliation
- Lutheran
- Political Affiliation
- Conservative
- Marital Status
- Married
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
Are you baptized?
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2015
- Messages
- 33,784
- Age
- 58
- Gender
- Female
- Religious Affiliation
- Lutheran
- Political Affiliation
- Conservative
- Marital Status
- Married
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
When you are baptized, you are clothed in Christ's righteousness, that makes you have the white you seek.
BruceLeiter
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2024
- Messages
- 738
- Gender
- Male
- Religious Affiliation
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Widow/Widower
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
I believe that the action of baptism does not clothe us in Christ's righteousness, but that it is only our public response showing our trust in Jesus. I say this because I have been baptized three times, but in none of them did I become righteous in Jesus because of the water.
I was christened in the name of the Trinity as an infant, was immersed at 12 to become a church member, became a believer at 16 without baptism, and was immersed at the age of 80 to become a member of another church, which believes in believers' baptism. The last baptism was my celebration of many decades of faith in the Triune God.
Frankj
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2024
- Messages
- 529
- Gender
- Male
- Religious Affiliation
- Non-Denominational
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
What is your understanding of "While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the interior and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples and asked them, 'Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you became believers?' 'No,' they answered, 'we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.' So he asked, 'Into what, then, were you baptized?' 'The baptism of John,' they replied. Paul said, 'John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.' On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. There were about twelve men in all." (Acts 19:1-7, NIV)
Also, what do you see Baptism as being before and after the coming of Christ and why did it change?
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2015
- Messages
- 33,784
- Age
- 58
- Gender
- Female
- Religious Affiliation
- Lutheran
- Political Affiliation
- Conservative
- Marital Status
- Married
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
There is one baptism and it's God's work within us (water and the word):
Galatians 3:27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
The verse you refer to about the people receiving John's baptism was not the Christian baptism, that's why they didn't receive the Holy Spirit.
Jesus instituted baptism for believers ...you can see it in Matthew 24. John's baptism was a precursor to the Christian baptism. In the Christian baptism:
1 Peter 3:20-21. … in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it a few people, eight in all, were saved through water — and this water symbolizes Baptism that now saves you also.
Colossians 2:11-12. In Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with Him in Baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.
Romans 6:3-10. Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Therefore we have been buried with Him through Baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is freed from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
Galatians 3:27. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
Eph. 5:26. Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word.
Titus 3:5. He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit.
Corinthians 12:13. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
1 Corinthians 6:11. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Acts 22:16. And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.
Acts 2:37-39. Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself."
Mark 16:16. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Frankj
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2024
- Messages
- 529
- Gender
- Male
- Religious Affiliation
- Non-Denominational
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
Would you say this is the meaning of Jesus when he said you must be born of both the water and the spirit? That both elements (water and spirit) are needed to be fully Baptized?
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2015
- Messages
- 33,784
- Age
- 58
- Gender
- Female
- Religious Affiliation
- Lutheran
- Political Affiliation
- Conservative
- Marital Status
- Married
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
That verse is definitely about baptism. The disciples were used to John's baptism, so when Jesus spoke about baptism, they immediately knew that it would entail water but that promises were now attached to those waters by God's word.
BruceLeiter
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2024
- Messages
- 738
- Gender
- Male
- Religious Affiliation
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Widow/Widower
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
According to the Apostle Paul, @Lamb, we no longer have a law-guardian, but instead we are "sons" of God connected to Jesus (of course, sons inherited their fathers' estates then):
Gal 3:25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,
Gal 3:26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.
Paul uses the word "baptism" for our spiritual baptism with the background of God's promise to Israel in Ezekiel 36:25-27, which looks forward to Christian conversion with the new birth--
Eze 36:25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you.
Eze 36:26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.
Thus, the act of baptism is a sign pointing to a person's becoming a Christian by God's gracious action, either in the future, as in the case of an infant, or in the near past in the case of an adult.
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2015
- Messages
- 33,784
- Age
- 58
- Gender
- Female
- Religious Affiliation
- Lutheran
- Political Affiliation
- Conservative
- Marital Status
- Married
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
Martin Luther, c. 1520
Your sins indeed are great, but by baptism I [i.e., Christ] bestow on you my righteousness; I strip death from you and clothe you with my life. That's Christ's true regimen; his office and mission are summed up in this, that he daily strips away our sin and death and clothes us with his righteousness and life. ("First Sunday in Advent" from Complete Sermons of Martin Luther, vol. V [Grand Rapids, MI:BakerBooks, 2007])BruceLeiter
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2024
- Messages
- 738
- Gender
- Male
- Religious Affiliation
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Widow/Widower
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
@Lamb, I agree with Luther that it's "by baptism" that these things happen, but it's our spiritual baptism that comes with our new birth, not with physical baptism, which is our acknowledgement of God's salvation.
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2015
- Messages
- 33,784
- Age
- 58
- Gender
- Female
- Religious Affiliation
- Lutheran
- Political Affiliation
- Conservative
- Marital Status
- Married
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism
Creed
Member
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2025
- Messages
- 9
- Gender
- Male
- Religious Affiliation
- Protestant
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
Jesus contrasts being born of water with born of the flesh in v6–this is the natural birth.
The Spirit is like the wind, giving the new birth to those He wishes (v8.)
BruceLeiter
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2024
- Messages
- 738
- Gender
- Male
- Religious Affiliation
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Widow/Widower
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
Yep, @Lamb. I think that Paul in that verse is also talking about the spiritual baptism brought by the Holy Spirit when we first believe. Of course, "Lord" refers to Jesus.