God in man, man in God

MoreCoffee

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I had asked you if there were any articles in the CC about the new creation and the kingdom brought in 2,000 yrs ago to which I didn't get a reply. There would be a difference between those of purely human nature and the new creation wouldn't there?

By CC do you mean Catholic Catechism or do you mean Catholic Church?
 

MoreCoffee

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The Catholic Church is all of God's faithful people through all the ages so yes in the Catholic Church you can find teaching about theosis from the earliest times and about the Kingdom of God as well as the Kingdom of heaven also from the earliest times.
 

Cassia

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The nature of the new creation is described as peaceful in nature, salt is an agent to prevent corruption, enlightening those in darkness, having an agape love. Those things are different in nature from non-Christians.
 

MoreCoffee

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The nature of the new creation is described as peaceful in nature, salt is an agent to prevent corruption, enlightening those in darkness, having an agape love. Those things are different in nature from non-Christians.

God grants graces to the just and the unjust alike and love is common to all human beings (perhaps with a few exceptions) so a non-Christian has graces from God too and among the non-Christians of this world may be found some (perhaps very many) who love truly and selflessly.
 

Cassia

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God grants graces to the just and the unjust alike and love is common to all human beings (perhaps with a few exceptions) so a non-Christian has graces from God too and among the non-Christians of this world may be found some (perhaps very many) who love truly and selflessly.
I can't speak for anyone else but there is a difference from becoming a nonbeliever to becoming a believer. If there isn't then is it really a true conversion? What is the measurement of a true conversion?
 

MoreCoffee

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I can't speak for anyone else but there is a difference from becoming a nonbeliever to becoming a believer. If there isn't then is it really a true conversion? What is the measurement of a true conversion?

God alone is the measure of conversion.
 

Brighten04

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I can't speak for anyone else but there is a difference from becoming a nonbeliever to becoming a believer. If there isn't then is it really a true conversion? What is the measurement of a true conversion?

I would say like this Cass. Our Father, through love and grace, sent Lord Jesus to save all of humanity, but, mankind must receive Him, believe on Him. So, you have those who believe and those who don't.
To the ones who believe He gives the right to become new creations/born again sons of God having eternal life, not just mere men. It is they who have the indwelling Holy Spirit . This is the big difference between believers and unbelievers .
 

psalms 91

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The Word says that even nature speaks of God and there is no excuse for not believing. It also does not say from Moses on it was in effect, so yes the Law was always there. God made sure of that. Of course the Law was simple at first, dont eat of this tree and once man sinned and became more sinful as time went on of course there had to be more Laws
 

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The fact remains that wheat and tares are of different natures.

Amen! :amen: :amen:! they may look alike but are different at the root.
 

Lamb

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Amen! :amen: :amen:! they may look alike but are different at the root.

The born from above has something to do with that. I've heard that some people believe because of predestination that the nature is different for man to "choose" God. I do not believe this of course.
 

Cassia

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Amen! :amen: :amen:! they may look alike but are different at the root.
So true! I agree! The root of the problem!

Matthew 12:24
But the Pharisees, hearing this, said, This man does not cast out the demons except by Beelzebul, ruler of the demons.

The above verse can be considered a fulfilment of this prophesy

Isaiah 53:2-3
Like a young plant or a root
that sprouts in dry ground,
the servant grew up
obeying the Lord.
He wasn’t some handsome king.
Nothing about the way he looked
made him attractive to us.
3
He was hated and rejected;
his life was filled with sorrow
and terrible suffering.
No one wanted to look at him.
We despised him and said,
“He is a nobody!”​

Knowing the Lord that way was to know Him in His humanity and not His according to the Spirit.


2 Corinthians 5:16
We are careful not to judge people by what they seem to be, though we once judged Christ in that way.
Romans 1:4
This good news is about his Son, our Lord Jesus Christ! As a human, he was from the family of David. But the Holy Spirit proved that Jesus is the powerful Son of God, because he was raised from death.​

The root of the problem for many who struggle with Christianity and the stumbling block of those who don't believe.
 

Brighten04

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The root of the problem for many who struggle with Christianity and the stumbling block of those who don't believe.

Yes! People think they are "good enough" on their own because they don't do this or that, not recognizing that their own righteousness is as filthy rags before God. When they are confronted with their sinfulness, they get defensive in their self righteousness and say Christians are being judgmental, when that is not the case at all.mAnd many Christians try to live their lives based on the OT law and do not rest in the grace and truth that comes through Jesus Christ the Savior.
 

Brighten04

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The born from above has something to do with that. I've heard that some people believe because of predestination that the nature is different for man to "choose" God. I do not believe this of course.

Yes, I think the Calvinist believe this.
 

Cassia

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The born from above has something to do with that. I've heard that some people believe because of predestination that the nature is different for man to "choose" God. I do not believe this of course.

Yes, I think the Calvinist believe this.
That's like asking which came first, the chicken or the egg? Do Calvinist's really believe that a new nature is pre-christian? I don't believe that either. That's like being born with the Holy Spirit that the bible describes as being a miracle like in John the Baptist.
 

MoreCoffee

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The fact remains that wheat and tares are of different natures.

That is true yet Jesus told the parable saying that the workers in the fields were instructed to leave the tares undisturbed until the harvest was gathered. The time of gathering the harvest is not yet here. The last judgement is still future for us so we cannot be obedient and at the same time condemning towards others who profess faith in Jesus Christ.

He proposed another parable to them, saying: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while the men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds amid the wheat, and then went away. And when the plants had grown, and had produced fruit, then the weeds also appeared. So the servants of the Father of the family, approaching, said to him: "Lord, did you not sow good seed in your field? Then how is it that it has weeds?" And he said to them, "A man who is an enemy has done this." So the servants said to him, "Is it your will that we should go and gather them up?" And he said: "No, lest perhaps in gathering the weeds, you might also root out the wheat together with it. Permit both to grow until the harvest, and at the time of the harvest, I will say to the reapers: Gather first the weeds, and bind them into bundles to burn, but the wheat gather into my storehouse." "
Matthew 13:24-30
 

Brighten04

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That's like asking which came first, the chicken or the egg? Do Calvinist's really believe that a new nature is pre-christian? I don't believe that either. That's like being born with the Holy Spirit that the bible describes as being a miracle like in John the Baptist.

I am not proficient in the Calvinist doctrine. Maybe one of our Calvinist brothers can explain it simply so we can understand it.
 

Cassia

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I am not proficient in the Calvinist doctrine. Maybe one of our Calvinist brothers can explain it simply so we can understand it.
I'm curious to know if Calvanists believe that too...
 
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