stewards entrusted with the mysteries of God

[MoreCoffee]

People must think of us as Christ’s servants, stewards entrusted with the mysteries of God. What is expected of stewards is that each one should be found worthy of his trust. Not that it makes the slightest difference to me whether you, or indeed any human tribunal, find me worthy or not. I will not even pass judgement on myself. True, my conscience does not reproach me at all, but that does not prove that I am acquitted: the Lord alone is my judge. There must be no passing of premature judgement. Leave that until the Lord comes; he will light up all that is hidden in the dark and reveal the secret intentions of men’s hearts. Then will be the time for each one to have whatever praise he deserves, from God.

 

[Cassia]

People must think of us as Christ’s servants, stewards entrusted with the mysteries of God. What is expected of stewards is that each one should be found worthy of his trust. Not that it makes the slightest difference to me whether you, or indeed any human tribunal, find me worthy or not. I will not even pass judgement on myself. True, my conscience does not reproach me at all, but that does not prove that I am acquitted: the Lord alone is my judge. There must be no passing of premature judgement. Leave that until the Lord comes; he will light up all that is hidden in the dark and reveal the secret intentions of men’s hearts. Then will be the time for each one to have whatever praise he deserves, from God.

Luke 12:42-48
The Lord answered, “Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their food allowance at the proper time? 43 It will be good for that servant whom the master finds doing so when he returns. 44 Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 45 But suppose the servant says to himself, ‘My master is taking a long time in coming,’ and he then begins to beat the other servants, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk. 46 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.

47 “The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. 48 But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.​

Acts*17:30
And the times of this ignorance God overlooked; but now commands all men everywhere to repent:

Repentance is the commandment of the times. Disciples are told to prepare for it and to prepare others using all gifts and talents faithfully and actively. Those who sin against revealed light with their eyes open, against the Lord's words, can expect, in this world or in the world to come, a penalty proportionably severe.

Everywhere the word beaten is used it's to explain what was done to God's servants whom He had sent. I don't believe that God's ways are mankind's way but a punishment does remain. ( I have always seen God's ways as a stripping away)
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G1194&t=KJV

Responsibility in the House of God isn't something to be taken lightly so that's for stewards and also for those who hear the word. In a way ignorance is bliss but anyone into the word shouldn't be among those not knowing and not doing.

 

[Cassia]

People must think of us as Christ’s servants, stewards entrusted with the mysteries of God. What is expected of stewards is that each one should be found worthy of his trust. Not that it makes the slightest difference to me whether you, or indeed any human tribunal, find me worthy or not. I will not even pass judgement on myself. True, my conscience does not reproach me at all, but that does not prove that I am acquitted: the Lord alone is my judge. There must be no passing of premature judgement. Leave that until the Lord comes; he will light up all that is hidden in the dark and reveal the secret intentions of men’s hearts. Then will be the time for each one to have whatever praise he deserves, from God.

Do you give it no thought then? because the Word of God is said to divide and reveal the secret thoughts within

Hebrews 4:12
The word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and quick to discern the thoughts and intents of the heart

1 Peter 4:6
For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.

 

[atpollard]

People must think of us as Christ’s servants, stewards entrusted with the mysteries of God.

Why? Before I get too much further into this, why must people think of us like this? Why can't most people think of us as a bunch of self-righteous hypocrites who just want to tell them what to do so we can feel better about ourselves? Or why can't they hold all men of the cloth in suspission of just being in it for the money and hiding secret sins that are even worse than anything any town drunk does in the open?

Who are "they"? The world or the church?
(Once I can understand the first part better, I can try to address the rest of the OP.)

 

[MoreCoffee]

Why? Before I get too much further into this, why must people think of us like this? Why can't most people think of us as a bunch of self-righteous hypocrites who just want to tell them what to do so we can feel better about ourselves? Or why can't they hold all men of the cloth in suspission of just being in it for the money and hiding secret sins that are even worse than anything any town drunk does in the open?

Who are "they"? The world or the church?
(Once I can understand the first part better, I can try to address the rest of the OP.)

Whoever wrote 1Corinthians 4:1 said that's what people ought to do ... People must think of us as Christ’s servants, stewards entrusted with the mysteries of God.

 

[Cassia]

The OP is 1 Corinthians 4:1-5

No response then to other comments or comparisons?

 

[atpollard]

Whoever wrote 1Corinthians 4:1 said that's what people ought to do ... People must think of us as Christ’s servants, stewards entrusted with the mysteries of God.

Ok, that makes a difference. Then it is Paul (the Apostle) and Sosthenes ("our brother"), the writers of 1 Corinthians who should be thought of as Christ's servants entrusted with the mysteries of God. The people who should be 'entrusting' them are the believers in Corinth to whom the letter was written. See, now that you have identified the scripture, we have context for it.

Now all scripture is useful, so it seems reasonable to ask what the modern application of this verse in our lives should be. It hardly seems reasonable to expect the unsaved world to think of Christians in this manner. I mean the relationship between the Apostle Paul and the Christians in Corinth is nothing like the relationship between a modern Christian and the world (Luke 21:17).

So for a modern application, the "people" who should feel this way are the Church. So the real question becomes, do we (the Church) think of "them" (whoever 'them' are) as Christ's servants entrusted with the mysteries of God?

Who are the "them" that we (the church) view as Christ's servants entrusted with the mysteries of God? There are no more Apostles. Scripture is closed. God has revealed all of the mysteries that it appears he intends to reveal until he reveals them personally. It is possible that the answer is 'No one'. Then again, Paul may have been writing as a missionary to a young church or a pastor to his struggling flock. In that case, there are still people held as servants of Christ entrusted with the mysteries of God ... however, I am not one of them (a missionary or pastor).

So you actually asked no question, but rather just posted a scripture without comment. So I guess this is as good as a comment for no question as any.

God bless.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Ok, that makes a difference. Then it is Paul (the Apostle) and Sosthenes ("our brother"), the writers of 1 Corinthians who should be thought of as Christ's servants entrusted with the mysteries of God. The people who should be 'entrusting' them are the believers in Corinth to whom the letter was written. See, now that you have identified the scripture, we have context for it.

Now all scripture is useful, so it seems reasonable to ask what the modern application of this verse in our lives should be. It hardly seems reasonable to expect the unsaved world to think of Christians in this manner. I mean the relationship between the Apostle Paul and the Christians in Corinth is nothing like the relationship between a modern Christian and the world (Luke 21:17).

So for a modern application, the "people" who should feel this way are the Church. So the real question becomes, do we (the Church) think of "them" (whoever 'them' are) as Christ's servants entrusted with the mysteries of God?

Who are the "them" that we (the church) view as Christ's servants entrusted with the mysteries of God? There are no more Apostles. Scripture is closed. God has revealed all of the mysteries that it appears he intends to reveal until he reveals them personally. It is possible that the answer is 'No one'. Then again, Paul may have been writing as a missionary to a young church or a pastor to his struggling flock. In that case, there are still people held as servants of Christ entrusted with the mysteries of God ... however, I am not one of them (a missionary or pastor).

So you actually asked no question, but rather just posted a scripture without comment. So I guess this is as good as a comment for no question as any.

God bless.

Have some care about how you restrict the meaning and application of verses because what you restrict in one passage may imply a much more severe restriction in other passages than your theology can reasonably bear.

 

[atpollard]

Repentance is the commandment of the times. Disciples are told to prepare for it and to prepare others using all gifts and talents faithfully and actively. Those who sin against revealed light with their eyes open, against the Lord's words, can expect, in this world or in the world to come, a penalty proportionably severe.

Hypothetically, if you made a taco and shaped it into a taco bowl shape and while you were baking it, the taco refused to stay in the bowl shape and the resulting mess was incapable of being used as a bowl to make a taco salad, what would be an appropriate response for you, the chef, towards a worthless, useless non-taco bowl? When mine overcook, I throw them away. They are good for no other purpose.

When the omnipotent, omnicient, omnipresent creator makes a being that rejects him as creator, refuses to offer the honor that God deserves as creator, rejects the mercy that God offers, and ultimately proves unsuitable for any purpose that would glorify God except as an object of His wrath, what is the proportionally severe penalty for rejecting the infinite love of the infinite creator and choosing to rebel against Divine authority instead?

Responsibility in the House of God isn't something to be taken lightly so that's for stewards and also for those who hear the word. In a way ignorance is bliss but anyone into the word shouldn't be among those not knowing and not doing.

An interesting question about ignorance being bliss. Let's test that theory out. Jesus said (Matthew 5:27-28) "You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

So my question is, under the Law of Moses, was God OK with men staring at women with lust in their heart and it only became a sin that God was going to hold men accountable for after Jesus delivered the revised Law? Or was it always an offense against God and a stench in His nostrils, and Jesus just let us know the true depth of our sin problem with a Holy God?

 

[atpollard]

Have some care about how you restrict the meaning and application of verses because what you restrict in one passage may imply a much more severe restriction in other passages than your theology can reasonably bear.

I restricted nothing, but simply offered a range of thoughts.

The passage WAS written by an Apostle to a Church.
Do you believe that modern Apostles (sent like Paul) are still adding books to the bible?
If you have an objection, you will need to be more specific.

If you believe that it should be applied to the unsaved holding all Christians in esteem, you will need to make that case. Quoting a passage without even identifying it as such hardly explains anything.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I restricted nothing, but simply offered a range of thoughts.

The passage WAS written by an Apostle to a Church.
Do you believe that modern Apostles (sent like Paul) are still adding books to the bible?
If you have an objection, you will need to be more specific.

If you believe that it should be applied to the unsaved holding all Christians in esteem, you will need to make that case. Quoting a passage without even identifying it as such hardly explains anything.

Of the twelve apostles chosen by the Lord only three are said to have written holy scripture under inspiration while the rest may have written things their written works (whatever they may be if they existed) were not regarded as holy scripture by the church so they were not included among the sacred books. That being so one ought not conclude that every apostle was automatically an author of sacred scripture even though every apostle chosen by Jesus Christ (Judas Iscariot excepted) was a steward of the mysteries of God.

 

[Josiah]

People must think of us as Christ’s servants, stewards entrusted with the mysteries of God. What is expected of stewards is that each one should be found worthy of his trust. Not that it makes the slightest difference to me whether you, or indeed any human tribunal, find me worthy or not. I will not even pass judgement on myself. True, my conscience does not reproach me at all, but that does not prove that I am acquitted: the Lord alone is my judge. There must be no passing of premature judgement. Leave that until the Lord comes; he will light up all that is hidden in the dark and reveal the secret intentions of men’s hearts. Then will be the time for each one to have whatever praise he deserves, from God.

This is one of the reasons I left the RC Denomination....


In the words of my Greek Orthodox friend, "the Roman Church cannot shut up, will not leave well enough alone. It insists on messing things up with its endless theories and opinions."


The RC Denomination regards It Itself uniquely as smarter than God, not stewards of the mysteries of God but destroyers of the mysteries of God.

mys·ter·y1
ˈmist(ə)rē/
noun
noun: mystery; plural noun: mysteries

1.
something that is difficult or impossible to understand or explain.
"the mysteries of outer space"
synonyms: puzzle, enigma, conundrum, riddle, secret, problem, unsolved problem
"his death remains a mystery"

Steward: Caretaker, protector


A steward of the mysteries of God is one who protects and cares for the mysteries of God - those things we do not (cannot?) understand/comprehend.

It requires HUMILITY. The acceptance that God may just be smarter than we are, God may just know more about the things of God than self does, the willingness to shut up about things not known or understood.

The Roman Catholic Denomination (the prime characteristic of such being incredible egoism and quest for power and lordship) has simply inisted that there is ONE who is smarter than God, that knows more about God than God does, that has been appointed by it itself to correct what God has said in Scripture, to EXPLAIN AWAY the mysteries since God did not: It Itself, the RC Denomination, it claims for itself. It comes up with these theories, opinions, speculations (often from pagan philosophy or pre-science fallacies) then declares such makes sense to it itself uniquely and so much be DOGMA that God in heaven is required to accept because it itself uniquely can't be wrong and thus God must agree with It Itself or God would be wrong. It's how the RC Denomination has come up with DOGMAS like Transubstantiation, Purgatory, the Infallible RCC Bishop in Rome.... well, all the dogmas unique to the RC Denomination, all the teachings that are distinctive of that singular denomination.



Thank you.



- Josiah




.

 

[Cassia]

Hypothetically, if you made a taco and shaped it into a taco bowl shape and while you were baking it, the taco refused to stay in the bowl shape and the resulting mess was incapable of being used as a bowl to make a taco salad, what would be an appropriate response for you, the chef, towards a worthless, useless non-taco bowl? When mine overcook, I throw them away. They are good for no other purpose.

When the omnipotent, omnicient, omnipresent creator makes a being that rejects him as creator, refuses to offer the honor that God deserves as creator, rejects the mercy that God offers, and ultimately proves unsuitable for any purpose that would glorify God except as an object of His wrath, what is the proportionally severe penalty for rejecting the infinite love of the infinite creator and choosing to rebel against Divine authority instead?

Isaiah 64:7-8
There is no one who calls on Your name, Who arouses himself to take hold of You; For You have hidden Your face from us And have delivered us into the power of our iniquities.
But now, O LORD, You are our Father, We are the clay, and You our potter; And all of us are the work of Your hand.

Jeremiah 18

An interesting question about ignorance being bliss. Let's test that theory out. Jesus said (Matthew 5:27-28) "You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

So my question is, under the Law of Moses, was God OK with men staring at women with lust in their heart and it only became a sin that God was going to hold men accountable for after Jesus delivered the revised Law? Or was it always an offense against God and a stench in His nostrils, and Jesus just let us know the true depth of our sin problem with a Holy God?

Ignorance is bliss only for those who take God at His Word, not for those who doubt the bible. Those who do the will of God w/o doubting have Him on faith, those who doubt His word have the onus on themselves to prove His Word wrong. But the question is interesting because it questions whether the law was in effect before Moses ...

 

[Brighten04]

Ignorance is bliss only for those who take God at His Word, not for those who doubt the bible. Those who do the will of God w/o doubting have Him on faith, those who doubt His word have the onus on themselves to prove His Word wrong. But the question is interesting because it questions whether the law was in effect before Moses ...

I love this thought sister. I would like to discuss this further on another thread as to not derail this one. Do you mind my using this thought on another thread relevant to it?

 

[Cassia]

I love this thought sister. I would like to discuss this further on another thread as to not derail this one. Do you mind my using this thought on another thread relevant to it?

Please, start a new thread. Looking forward to another great discussion!

 

[MoreCoffee]

The OP is 1 Corinthians 4:1-5

No response then to other comments or comparisons?

The original post is a quote from the bible without comment and without questions by the original poster (me). It was an interesting passage that seemed worth a thread. What people make of it is up to them. I liked it. It speaks of the relationship between teacher and those he teaches (I say he because Paul was a male). It may have application to elders and bishops today. Sometimes I think it does, but not always because some elders and some bishops may have serious flaws in their character and those flaws may corrupt their teaching. But no matter how one see the passage it is a good seed for discussions.

 

[atpollard]

Of the twelve apostles chosen by the Lord only three are said to have written holy scripture under inspiration while the rest may have written things their written works (whatever they may be if they existed) were not regarded as holy scripture by the church so they were not included among the sacred books. That being so one ought not conclude that every apostle was automatically an author of sacred scripture even though every apostle chosen by Jesus Christ (Judas Iscariot excepted) was a steward of the mysteries of God.

Fair enough.
So scripture may be closed, but you object to the statement that Jesus is not appearing to commission more Apostles (as he commissioned Paul).
I acknowledge it as a theoretical possibility, but one that would require extraordinary proof if one were to claim the office of Apostle.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Fair enough.
So scripture may be closed, but you object to the statement that Jesus is not appearing to commission more Apostles (as he commissioned Paul).
I acknowledge it as a theoretical possibility, but one that would require extraordinary proof if one were to claim the office of Apostle.

I do not expect Jesus to personally appear in vision or by visible manifestations for every person he calls to the office of bishop or the office of elder in the church. I doubt that he appears to many and he may not appear to any - I cannot say because I do not know them all.

I do not think of bishops as apostles or as prophets or as being inspired because holy scripture restricts the idea of inspiration to the creation of holy scripture. I do think that bishops and elders can be infallibly guided by the Holy Spirit in what they teach and in what they do but I do not think that everything a bishop or an elder says and does is infallibly guided by the Spirit.

Nevertheless bishops and elders are called to be stewards of the mysteries of God are they not? They are servants who teach and guide the flock as the Spirit enables them, right? That is what the holy scriptures teach about the role of elder and bishop is it not? No doubt holy scripture also teaches other things about bishops and elders but it certainly does teach their their role is to teach, guide, and govern. Hence Paul's remark to the Corinthians ... that People should think of us as Christ's servants, stewards entrusted with the mysteries of God.

Paul was without doubt thinking of himself and his companions and associates when he wrote that. Paul's second letter to the Corinthians exposes some of the difficulties he and his messengers encountered in Corinth as the Corinthian Christians were inclined to receive "false apostles" who demeaned Paul's apostleship and his teaching. The same principles apply today I think; we see it when one group separates from another to form their own congregation with its own teachers who did not agree with the teachers in their former congregation. We see it in disputes between denominations too. People choose sides and that leads to all sorts of consequences.

 

[Cassia]

... I do think that bishops and elders can be infallibly guided by the Holy Spirit in what they teach and in what they do but I do not think that everything a bishop or an elder says and does is infallibly guided by the Spirit. ...

The Holy Spirit may infallably guide but I don't think a Bishop or any teacher would be infallably guided.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The Holy Spirit may infallably guide but I don't think a Bishop or any teacher would be infallably guided.

Why do you not think that the Spirit would infallibly guide a bishop or any teacher?