God in man, man in God

[Cassia]

At the Incarnation God took on the form of a man thereby bringing God into mankind. At the Resurrection mankind (in the form of Jesus) brought mankind into God.

:bible:

God in man
While Jesus Christ lived on earth His ministry was limited because people had to go to where He was to benefit from Him. Some went to the extreme of uncovering the roof to get a sick friend His help and others needed only to touch His garments. Someone of advanced faith found that just a word from Him was enough to procur a miracle. Of them all a Roman centurian professed that the Lord was beyond limitation of time and space. His faith, 'so great a faith' gained instant results. Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit and as God's man He had reached the pinnacle of character for created man. Even the winds obeyed Him. He redeemed dominion for mankind.

Man in God
Hebrews 1:5, Acts 13:33-34, 1 Peter 1:3
Ressurection means that Jesus Christ is no longer subject to limitations. While on earth He had the possibility of death. Resurection destroyed death. As the firstfruit He has removed those restrictions. Altho Lazarus and Jairus' daughter recieved life again they were not in resurrected bodies and so were still subject to death. I can't see Lazarus living much longer after Jesus' death as a reminder of His miracles. Death is the limitation to all living things. But thank God for resurrection.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Did God change in the incarnation? Was something new added to him?

 

[Cassia]

Did God change in the incarnation? Was something new added to him?

God took on the form of a human in the incarnation, in the form of a baby in a manger, leaving aside His majesty to become a servant. While not detracting from the Father's essential Godhead, God became the Son of Man.

 

[MoreCoffee]

God took on the form of a human in the incarnation, in the form of a baby in a manger, leaving aside His majesty to become a servant. While not detracting from the Father's essential Godhead, God became the Son of Man.

God the Father was not incarnate - God the Son was born as the man Jesus Christ yet God the Son is God even in the incarnate Jesus. The way that works is not revealed by God in the holy scriptures.

 

[Cassia]

God the Father was not incarnate - God the Son was born as the man Jesus Christ yet God the Son is God even in the incarnate Jesus. The way that works is not revealed by God in the holy scriptures.

God took on the form of a human in the incarnation, in the form of a baby in a manger, leaving aside His majesty to become a servant. While not detracting from the Father's essential Godhead, God became the Son of Man.

What part of my reply are you objecting to?

 

[MoreCoffee]

What part of my reply are you objecting to?

I was unsure of why you wrote "While not detracting from the Father's essential Godhead, God became the Son of Man." it seems like you start that statement with an observation about the Father and finish it with something about God the Son so it left me wondering why you mentioned the Father when discussing the incarnation of the Son.

 

[Cassia]

I was unsure of why you wrote "While not detracting from the Father's essential Godhead, God became the Son of Man." it seems like you start that statement with an observation about the Father and finish it with something about God the Son so it left me wondering why you mentioned the Father when discussing the incarnation of the Son.

The question was

Did God change in the incarnation? Was something new added to him?

that I answered to the best of my ability. If it didn't answer your question then perhaps a different question would clarify what your asking so I can better answer it. That is what you were asking about and what I answered.

God took on the form of a human in the incarnation, in the form of a baby in a manger, leaving aside His majesty to become a servant. While not detracting from the Father's essential Godhead, God became the Son of Man.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Okay.

 

[Cassia]

Many think that the main purpose of the incarnation is to bring people to heaven, but that's a shallow meaning. The deeper meaning is the accomplishment of the mingling of divinity and humanity. (which does not include the essential Godhead that was brought up earlier)
The incarnation brought with it a kingdom also, the realm in which Christ the King reigns. His reign is His authority, so we see dominion and authority established in the work of Christ thru His Kingdom rule.
Incarnation brought the Kingdom to mankind and the character of the Kingdom as well as that of the citizen's can be found outlined in chapters Matthew 5-7 while the 4 gospels reveal man's needs and the suffiency of Jesus to meet all of our needs.

But the condition and suffiency are secondary to the incarnation and kingdom. Jesus didn't just live His life in a human lifestyle devoid of help. He lived a divine life as a human being. Limited but unlimited.
His speach was of God John 7:16-17; 12:49-50; 14:24
His work was by God John 5:17, 19; 10:25; 14:10b
His peacefulness, kindness, and goodness toward others reflected the Holy Spirit within.

John 6:57
Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.​

John 12:24 likens Him to a grain of wheat that multiplies by death and resurrection. Christ's death and resurrection imparted Himself into all His believers. At incarnation He was the only begotten Son of God, one grain of wheat, and at the end of the gospels Christ has become the firstborn among many brothers and sisters, the first of many grains.

John 20:22
Then he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
1 Peter 1:3
Praise God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is so good, and by raising Jesus from death, he has given us new life and a hope that lives on.​

It isn't good for man to be alone and as Eve is Adam's increase so is the bride, the church, the increase of Jesus Christ.

John 3:29-30
“He who has the bride is the bridegroom; but the friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices with joy because of the bridegroom’s voice. This joy of mine therefore is made full. He must increase, but I must decrease.”​

There are many branches on the vine John 15:1-5 the Lord prayed that all of His believers might be one John 17:21 It was after the ressurrection that Christ sent Mary to His brothers. As such are lives are hidden in Christ, seated in the heavenlies with Him. This place is our abiding. He is the Head and we are the Body of the unique new creation. Hallajueh!

 

[Brighten04]

Praise God sister Cassia. Thank you for this wonderful post! Hallelujah!:arms:

 

[Lamb]

Many think that the main purpose of the incarnation is to bring people to heaven, but that's a shallow meaning.

I disagree that it is shallow. The entire purpose of God coming to earth was to save us.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I disagree that it is shallow. The entire purpose of God coming to earth was to save us.

There is more to it than the word "save" says. But you are right that Jesus came into the world to save sinners. He said that much himself [SUP]John 12:47[/SUP] and Paul summarised Christ's mission in words like "Jesus came into the world to save sinners". [SUP]1Tim 1:15[/SUP]

 

[Cassia]

Many think that the main purpose of the incarnation is to bring people to heaven, but that's a shallow meaning. The deeper meaning is the accomplishment of the mingling of divinity and humanity. (which does not include the essential Godhead that was brought up earlier)
....

I disagree that it is shallow. The entire purpose of God coming to earth was to save us.

Mingling of humanity and divinity does not mean that Jesus' nature is mingled. That's not what is being said as I think is clear to most readers. What is conjoined is us in Him, Him in us. Without which (the abiding) there is no entree. Everything Christ did is better, a better lawkeeper, a better judge, a better prophet, priest, king. Jesus fulfilled that need. He is the promised One that creation was awaiting the fulfillment of. He's the Word of God, burning within us to remove impurities. Reading thru the bible with gospel eyes we are told to see with the eyes of Jesus., like those on Emmaus Road. The process is always that much better than reaching than goal w/o acknowledging the process. Justification is what you are talking about while I about sanctification. One is not complete w/o the other.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Mingling of humanity and divinity does not mean that Jesus' nature is mingled. That's not what is being said as I think is clear to most readers. What is conjoined is us in Him, Him in us. Without which (the abiding) there is no entree. Everything Christ did is better, a better lawkeeper, a better judge, a better prophet, priest, king. Jesus fulfilled that need. He is the promised One that creation was awaiting the fulfillment of. He's the Word of God, burning within us to remove impurities. Reading thru the bible with gospel eyes we are told to see with the eyes of Jesus., like those on Emmaus Road. The process is always that much better than reaching than goal w/o acknowledging the process. Justification is what you are talking about while I about sanctification. One is not complete w/o the other.

For many centuries both Catholic and Orthodox Christians have affirmed that the purpose of the incarnation is for the faithful to share in Christ's divinity as he shares in our humanity. The Orthodox call it theosis. Catholics call it both theosis and the beatific vision. In the mass, at the moment that water is put into the wine just prior to it being consecrated the minister of the Eucharist (either the presiding priest or a deacon) says
By the mystery of this water and wine [SUP]2 Macc. 15:39; John 19:34
[/SUP]may we come to share in the divinity of Christ [SUP]Rom. 5:2; 2 Pet. 1:4[/SUP]
who humbled himself to share in our humanity. [SUP]Phil. 2:8[/SUP]

 

[Cassia]

For many centuries both Catholic and Orthodox Christians have affirmed that the purpose of the incarnation is for the faithful to share in Christ's divinity as he shares in our humanity. The Orthodox call it theosis. Catholics call it both theosis and the beatific vision. In the mass, at the moment that water is put into the wine just prior to it being consecrated the minister of the Eucharist (either the presiding priest or a deacon) says
By the mystery of this water and wine [SUP]2 Macc. 15:39; John 19:34
[/SUP]may we come to share in the divinity of Christ [SUP]Rom. 5:2; 2 Pet. 1:4[/SUP]
who humbled himself to share in our humanity. [SUP]Phil. 2:8[/SUP]

:amen: The great emphasis in this thread is on the new creation and the new kingdom which as Brighton pointed out is a mere 2,000 yrs old. I'm wondering what corresponding articals are found there?

 

[Cassia]

2 corinthians 4:6-8
For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” made His light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 7Now we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this surpassingly great power is from God and not from us. 8We are pressed on all sides, but not crushed; perplexed, but not in despair;…
2 Corinthians 4:2
But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor adulterating the word of God, but by the manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every conscience of men before God.​

These verses tells us that the preaching needs the light of God to be authentic. Christ is the truth and when manifested thru the new creation His life-giving words are propagated to others to give new life to new Christians. Gideon broke the clay jars to reveal the light that set the enemies to defeat. Our enemies are also defeated in His power and when He is given His authority in our life.

 

[Brighten04]

Mingling of humanity and divinity does not mean that Jesus' nature is mingled. That's not what is being said as I think is clear to most readers. What is conjoined is us in Him, Him in us. Without which (the abiding) there is no entree. Everything Christ did is better, a better lawkeeper, a better judge, a better prophet, priest, king. Jesus fulfilled that need. He is the promised One that creation was awaiting the fulfillment of. He's the Word of God, burning within us to remove impurities. Reading thru the bible with gospel eyes we are told to see with the eyes of Jesus., like those on Emmaus Road. The process is always that much better than reaching than goal w/o acknowledging the process. Justification is what you are talking about while I about sanctification. One is not complete w/o the other.

Indeed, indeed, indeed! Yes, this is what Jesus was teaching us when He taught
John 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

People have disconnected being the member of Christ's body to being a member of an organization/denomination. I think being in a denomination is a good thing, for we grow in faith when we assemble ourselves together in one accord. However, there are some who put their faith in organization/denomination instead of allowing the word of God to transform them into the image of Jesus Christ. We are Him. We are branches in Him the true vine. What flows in us, the branch is the same that flows in/from the Vine/Jesus. Us in Him, Him in us. Now imho if we are members of the organization/denomination without being joined by the new birth into Jesus Christ we miss it.So, how do we know we are born again? This is what the Word of God says
Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

So it isn't a hard thing. But we who have faith should grow from faith to more faith, to much faith, allowing the word to abide in us richly.

Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

 

[Cassia]

Ephesians 1:19-20
I want you to know about the great and mighty power that God has for us followers. It is the same wonderful power he used
when he raised Christ from death and let him sit at his right side in heaven.

Romans 8:11
“But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InsifiZxVXU

I don't see division between denominations, just in those who belong to Him and those who don't.

 

[MoreCoffee]

...

I don't see division between denominations, just in those who belong to Him and those who don't.

It's interesting that you say you do not see divisions between denominations yet see division between those who are Christians and those who are not. I say it is interesting because it implies that where there is division then one side or maybe both sides in the division are not Christians. I'd be more inclined to say that I see divisions between denominations because people often differ and debate and even have fights without implying that one side or both sides are not Christians. Paul had a fight with Peter and Paul had a fight with Barnabas but both Paul and Barnabas and both Paul and Peter are Christians.

 

[Cassia]

It's interesting that you say you do not see divisions between denominations yet see division between those who are Christians and those who are not. I say it is interesting because it implies that where there is division then one side or maybe both sides in the division are not Christians. I'd be more inclined to say that I see divisions between denominations because people often differ and debate and even have fights without implying that one side or both sides are not Christians. Paul had a fight with Peter and Paul had a fight with Barnabas but both Paul and Barnabas and both Paul and Peter are Christians.

I had asked you if there were any articals in the CC about the new creation and the kingdom brought in 2,000 yrs ago to which I didn't get a reply. There would be a difference between those of purely human nature and the new creation wouldn't there?