Do you believe Persecution will come to America

[MarkFL]

Up to a point what is currently considered "supernatural" may be explained by science and thereby become "natural". The example that comes to mind is Halley's Comet, which was once believed to be a bad omen but is now known to be a lump of rock and ice that flies around space really fast.

Yes, many things in the history of human reasoning once thought to be divinely caused/influenced have since had purely natural explanations found. This is simply what I would think of as progress. However, just because a natural explanation is found, this does not mean we can say this natural law was not written by a creator. It simply means we understand how the law works, not necessarily how or why that law came into being.

It is much better to simply say, "I don't know at present, so let's investigate" than to say, "This cannot currently be explained, therefore it must have a supernatural explanation." This halts progress and does no one any good.

I have major reservations about evolution but find that kind of argument really rather annoying. Arguments like "why are there still apes?" or, as I heard a few years back, "if you throw a pile of sticks together, how long before it become a chair?" just seek to trivialise a discussion and silence opposition with one-liners and soundbites.

The theory of evolution is of course far from complete, however the evidence is overwhelming that some form of Darwin's theory has been at work, and continues to be at work. Those who say evolution completely explains the origin and diversity of life are wrong, just as those who deny any form of evolution at all.

Can't argue with that, at least insofar as the interaction between church and state is concerned. I'd fully accept the right of a religious establishment to remove people trying to use it for other purposes - I wouldn't want to see Muslims walking into a church during the service to pray to Allah, or Christians seeking to hold a prayer meeting in the middle of a Hindu temple during their time of worship or similar.

I completely agree with this...it's kind of like freedom of speech...there have to be limits...like crying out "FIRE!!" in a crowded public place.

 

[psalms 91]

Of course the bible does mention signs in the heavens as well.

 

[MarkFL]

Or else elect those who make the rules, hmmm? Of course this wont happen as the more God is removed from us the closer we get to this country going down and it has to, abortion alone says we have to

The Scandinavian countries have an atheist majority, and yet their crime statistics, particularly violent and sexual offenses, are vastly superior to ours. You really do not need theism intertwined within your government to have a well-functioning society, and in fact, history would indicate just the opposite. The more theistic a government becomes, the worse life becomes for the population.

 

[tango]

Yes, many things in the history of human reasoning once thought to be divinely caused/influenced have since had purely natural explanations found. This is simply what I would think of as progress. However, just because a natural explanation is found, this does not mean we can say this natural law was not written by a creator. It simply means we understand how the law works, not necessarily how or why that law came into being.

That makes sense.

It is much better to simply say, "I don't know at present, so let's investigate" than to say, "This cannot currently be explained, therefore it must have a supernatural explanation." This halts progress and does no one any good.

That also makes sense, although the existence of supernatural beings would obviously mean there was the potential for things to happen that could never be explained using natural science. It doesn't mean we can't look for an explanation, just that we have to accept we may never find one.

The theory of evolution is of course far from complete, however the evidence is overwhelming that some form of Darwin's theory has been at work, and continues to be at work. Those who say evolution completely explains the origin and diversity of life are wrong, just as those who deny any form of evolution at all.

I'm not so sure about that. I'm not a biologist but have seen enough serious questions (i.e. not of the "why are there still apes?" variety) that leave me seriously wondering whether evolution is anywhere near as solid a theory as it's made out to be. Adaptation of a species (I believe some people refer to it as micro-evolution) can be demonstrated in microbes under laboratory conditions in a matter of weeks, but that's a far cry from believing that mechanisms such as blood clotting evolved by chance.

 

[psalms 91]

The Scandinavian countries have an atheist majority, and yet their crime statistics, particularly violent and sexual offenses, are vastly superior to ours. You really do not need theism intertwined within your government to have a well-functioning society, and in fact, history would indicate just the opposite. The more theistic a government becomes, the worse life becomes for the population.

Then explain the decline in America in the last 50 years, the time when a lot of this started happeneng.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Then explain the decline in America in the last 50 years, the time when a lot of this started happeneng.

Well Mark is right they ARE secular and they NOT only have lower crime rates They ALSO have lower reoffending rates, so I would have to say that having God alone can NOT be the sole reason for this supposed decline.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Mark is also right about history. In case you have not noticed ( with all due respect) what is happening in the countries whose laws are based largely on their religion think the middle east. In the 1700s how well did setting up a Christian government go here? Not that well in stocks for not going to church. The Roman empire fell AFTER Christianity became the state religion ( which by the way involved having practically only Christians in GOVERNMENT jobs.

 

[psalms 91]

Well Mark is right they ARE secular and they NOT only have lower crime rates They ALSO have lower reoffending rates, so I would have to say that having God alone can NOT be the sole reason for this supposed decline.

For the decline,. Yes. What little I know of those countries I believe that they place great emphasis on rehabilitation which I believe would greatly reduce it here as well but we are focused on punishment pretty much alone

 

[dogs4thewin]

Bill, here are some EXAMPLES of the rates

Sweden

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Sweden/United-States/Crime


Denmark

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Denmark/United-States/Crime

Finland

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Finland/United-States/Crime

Iceland

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Iceland/United-States/Crime

Finally Switzerland

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Switzerland/United-States/Crime

While there ARE exceptions in certain catorgiores look at this and tell me which country has the higher crime rates. All of these countries are in the northern part of Europe and known for being very secular.

 

[psalms 91]

Yes, we do. Question is why and how do we change it

 

[dogs4thewin]

I did notice that the area we DID tend to do well in was suicide rate ( Which I am a bit suprised since ours ( particularly my age group 15-24) is high with some 5,000 ( I believe) people in that decade spread taking their lives EVERY year and MANY MANY more try.

 

[psalms 91]

Yes, that is another issue as well