Abortion

[psalms 91]

children enter foster care for all sorts of reasons and all sorts of ages. Babies are not a problem getting adopted and there are always couples looking for a baby to adopt

 

[dogs4thewin]

children enter foster care for all sorts of reasons and all sorts of ages. Babies are not a problem getting adopted and there are always couples looking for a baby to adopt

I know they enter for all sorts of reasons. My point was basically once they get passed that young age whether it be because they entered when they were older or because there are just so many kids( babies) in the foster system people do not want them.

 

[~Jo~]

I couldn't imagine anything worst than being forced to have a child I didn't want, either through rape, or life threatening, to the mother or baby, but there are also cases where the baby would have a life of incredible pain or deformities, and recommended by doctors to terminate that so called life, I personally would not like to even consider bringing a child into this world to make it suffer for how ever long it lived when I could have prevented it from suffering in the first place. This is just my own opinion I don't imagine anyone agreeing with me tho.. but there are all sorts of reasons for terminations..and I'm pretty sure no one in this threat will agree with one another on it..

 

[~Jo~]

sorry it double posted. so deleted it.

 

[psalms 91]

I know they enter for all sorts of reasons. My point was basically once they get passed that young age whether it be because they entered when they were older or because there are just so many kids( babies) in the foster system people do not want them.

Not true but many do stay in foster care. Lets fix foster care instead of taking the easy answer and killing unborn children and no matter how you slice it that is murder, state sanctioned anymore but still murder

 

[dogs4thewin]

Not true but many do stay in foster care. Lets fix foster care instead of taking the easy answer and killing unborn children and no matter how you slice it that is murder, state sanctioned anymore but still murder

Maybe one thing that would help is offer support services when they age out

By the way, I am not suggesting that NO ONE wants the older kids, but they are MUCH hard to place than the younger ones.

 

[psalms 91]

Maybe one thing that would help is offer support services when they age out

By the way, I am not suggesting that NO ONE wants the older kids, but they are MUCH hard to place than the younger ones.

Agreed and yes some sort of support would be helpful I am sure

 

[MoreCoffee]

I couldn't imagine anything worst than being forced to have a child I didn't want, either through rape, or life threatening, to the mother or baby, but there are also cases where the baby would have a life of incredible pain or deformities, and recommended by doctors to terminate that so called life, I personally would not like to even consider bringing a child into this world to make it suffer for how ever long it lived when I could have prevented it from suffering in the first place. This is just my own opinion I don't imagine anyone agreeing with me tho.. but there are all sorts of reasons for terminations..and I'm pretty sure no one in this threat will agree with one another on it..

You are right to point out that in some cases the baby who is killed may, if born, have a difficult life but it is also true that in every case of induced abortion the baby is killed deliberately. And it is also true that some babies are conceived in rape but is being the child of a rapist (and of a rape victim) worthy of a death sentence for the baby before it is born?

 

[Ruth]

Well we know who vote for yes for any reason! :grumpy:

Your "pro choice" but you would never abort? hmm. Whys not. Makes no sense. Isn't that what you guys are about?

Oh and by the way. That makes me sick and mad!

:grumpy:

It is a womans body to do what she wants with it.

 

[MoreCoffee]

It is a womans body to do what she wants with it. (staff edit).

There is some truth in the claim that a woman's body belongs to her (at least to a degree) yet the baby in a woman's womb is not the property of the woman any more than her children would be. A woman is not free to kill a baby or have a baby killed by another person simply because the baby is inside her womb.

 

[Krissy Cakes]

There is some truth in the claim that a woman's body belongs to her (at least to a degree) yet the baby in a woman's womb is not the property of the woman any more than her children would be. A woman is not free to kill a baby or have a baby killed by another person simply because the baby is inside her womb.

Agree

 

[Ruth]

There is some truth in the claim that a woman's body belongs to her (at least to a degree) yet the baby in a woman's womb is not the property of the woman any more than her children would be. A woman is not free to kill a baby or have a baby killed by another person simply because the baby is inside her womb.

Yes she is according to the law. And at least I don't have a man who is a gun for hire who kills innocent people.

 

[tango]

It is a womans body to do what she wants with it. (staff edit)QUOTE]

I think this is a key issue that needs to be determined.

If the unborn child counts as a living being in and of itself, then abortion is morally equivalent to murder. If the unborn child doesn't count as a living thing in and of itself then abortion is morally equivalent to appendectomy.

So the key question has to be whether the unborn child counts as a living being and whether, Scripturally speaking, it has a value.

Lots of arguments abound referring to how Jeremiah was "called before he was born" and how God "knit me in my mother's womb" but none of those really address the issue. When God made Adam there was a time when Adam was made by God, man-sized and man-shaped, but not living - he didn't live until God breathed life into him. So we need something more than "God formed me in my mother's womb" to determine whether the unborn is a living thing or not and what, if any, value Scripture places on an unborn child.

It took me some time to figure whether the Bible actually speaks of abortion in any meaningful way until a friend pointed me towards some verses in the OT that suggests God values the life of an unborn as being of comparable value to someone who has been born.

Exo 21:22-25 NKJV "If men fight, and hurt a woman with child, so that she gives birth prematurely, yet no harm follows, he shall surely be punished accordingly as the woman's husband imposes on him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. (23) But if any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, (24) eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, (25) burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

On the basis of this passage I can't help but think that God assigns the same value to a child before birth as after birth. Although we don't execute people for cursing their parents (as required by Exo 21:17) I don't see how we can escape God assigning value to the unborn child in 21:22-25. We can see that no longer executing some people as required by OT law means we assign a higher value to life now than then, and it's hard to see God putting a value on the unborn in OT times only to figure that under the new covenant the unborn are "just a bunch of cells" and what was once valued as equivalent to a living human is now regarded as just an annoyance to get rid of at will.

 

[tango]

Yes she is according to the law. And at least I don't have a man who is a gun for hire who kills innocent people.

The law of the land isn't a good moral guide.

Under the law of the land I am free to commit adultery, I am free to curse God, I am free to lust after whoever and whatever I choose, I am free to burn with hatred for my brother, I am free to hoard untold amounts of wealth and ignore those in need around me, and so on. I can't say I'd look forward to giving account on Judgment Day if I chose to make a habit of any of those things.

 

[Ruth]

Well, the law of the land is what dictates what we do, like it or not. I do not believe in abortion for myself but I defend the right for any woman to terminate a pregancy that belongs to her and her partner. We don't have the right to tell a woman anything but what is the law. The law says a woman can have an abortion and no matter what we do woman will have abortions no matter what whether it is legal or not. We do not have the right to tell a woman what to do with her body and an embryo is her body and is noone's business!! Get off your high horses of what is tolerated as killing! A human is not a person until it is born and documented. I do believe a woman's body is her to do what she feels is right for her life and the life of the child. The child doesn't know it dies and we all do not know when we die and what it id, it is painless. If women are denied the right to abort they will still do it and under the care of people who are not professional at times. Women often die from such abortions. Abortion is wrong for me but I have no right to tell other women what to do with their bodies.

 

[GenesisGirl]

Please, let's not make personal attacks here in the thread, thank you.

 

[psalms 91]

Well, the law of the land is what dictates what we do, like it or not. I do not believe in abortion for myself but I defend the right for any woman to terminate a pregancy that belongs to her and her partner. We don't have the right to tell a woman anything but what is the law. The law says a woman can have an abortion and no matter what we do woman will have abortions no matter what whether it is legal or not. We do not have the right to tell a woman what to do with her body and an embryo is her body and is noone's business!! Get off your high horses of what is tolerated as killing! A human is not a person until it is born and documented. I do believe a woman's body is her to do what she feels is right for her life and the life of the child. The child doesn't know it dies and we all do not know when we die and what it id, it is painless. If women are denied the right to abort they will still do it and under the care of people who are not professional at times. Women often die from such abortions. Abortion is wrong for me but I have no right to tell other women what to do with their bodies.

The only thing thta has changed is the law. What God has said hasnt changed. The fact that it is murder hasnt changed. A baby in thye womb feeling pain, well yes I believe it does and I still call it murder. This is not being on a high horse but simply a statement of fact. Just because the law doesnt call it murder does not make it any less so

 

[Krissy Cakes]

I think this is a key issue that needs to be determined.

If the unborn child counts as a living being in and of itself, then abortion is morally equivalent to murder. If the unborn child doesn't count as a living thing in and of itself then abortion is morally equivalent to appendectomy.

So the key question has to be whether the unborn child counts as a living being and whether, Scripturally speaking, it has a value.

Lots of arguments abound referring to how Jeremiah was "called before he was born" and how God "knit me in my mother's womb" but none of those really address the issue. When God made Adam there was a time when Adam was made by God, man-sized and man-shaped, but not living - he didn't live until God breathed life into him. So we need something more than "God formed me in my mother's womb" to determine whether the unborn is a living thing or not and what, if any, value Scripture places on an unborn child.

It took me some time to figure whether the Bible actually speaks of abortion in any meaningful way until a friend pointed me towards some verses in the OT that suggests God values the life of an unborn as being of comparable value to someone who has been born.

Exo 21:22-25 NKJV "If men fight, and hurt a woman with child, so that she gives birth prematurely, yet no harm follows, he shall surely be punished accordingly as the woman's husband imposes on him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. (23) But if any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, (24) eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, (25) burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

On the basis of this passage I can't help but think that God assigns the same value to a child before birth as after birth. Although we don't execute people for cursing their parents (as required by Exo 21:17) I don't see how we can escape God assigning value to the unborn child in 21:22-25. We can see that no longer executing some people as required by OT law means we assign a higher value to life now than then, and it's hard to see God putting a value on the unborn in OT times only to figure that under the new covenant the unborn are "just a bunch of cells" and what was once valued as equivalent to a living human is now regarded as just an annoyance to get rid of at will.

Amen and Amen! Totally 100000000000000000 % agree!!

 

[Krissy Cakes]

Well, the law of the land is what dictates what we do, like it or not. I do not believe in abortion for myself but I defend the right for any woman to terminate a pregancy that belongs to her and her partner. We don't have the right to tell a woman anything but what is the law. The law says a woman can have an abortion and no matter what we do woman will have abortions no matter what whether it is legal or not. We do not have the right to tell a woman what to do with her body and an embryo is her body and is noone's business!! Get off your high horses of what is tolerated as killing! A human is not a person until it is born and documented. I do believe a woman's body is her to do what she feels is right for her life and the life of the child. The child doesn't know it dies and we all do not know when we die and what it id, it is painless. If women are denied the right to abort they will still do it and under the care of people who are not professional at times. Women often die from such abortions. Abortion is wrong for me but I have no right to tell other women what to do with their bodies.

You don't believe it for yourself? Why not? But you believe it for other people?

 

[tango]

Well, the law of the land is what dictates what we do, like it or not. I do not believe in abortion for myself but I defend the right for any woman to terminate a pregancy that belongs to her and her partner. We don't have the right to tell a woman anything but what is the law. The law says a woman can have an abortion and no matter what we do woman will have abortions no matter what whether it is legal or not. We do not have the right to tell a woman what to do with her body and an embryo is her body and is noone's business!! Get off your high horses of what is tolerated as killing! A human is not a person until it is born and documented. I do believe a woman's body is her to do what she feels is right for her life and the life of the child. The child doesn't know it dies and we all do not know when we die and what it id, it is painless. If women are denied the right to abort they will still do it and under the care of people who are not professional at times. Women often die from such abortions. Abortion is wrong for me but I have no right to tell other women what to do with their bodies.

The law of the land is largely irrelevant where Christian morality is concerned.

The law of the land doesn't care whether or not I look upon a woman with lust - under the law of the land it is perfectly acceptable for me to go to a strip club and watch young women undressing, it is perfectly acceptable to take one or more of them home with me. Under the law of the land it is perfectly acceptable for me to burn with hatred for my brother, it is acceptable for me to curse God and it is acceptable for me to step over the pained bodies of the starving to reach for another bottle of Dom Perignon.

Under the law of the land an unborn child doesn't count as a person, but if God counts that unborn as a person then in God's eyes the killing of the unborn is murder. Arguing that people will do it anyway also carries no weight - people still commit murder and rape despite both being illegal but nobody is suggesting they be legalised.

It helps nobody to simply state a fact as defined by the law of the land and tell everyone to mind their own business. Jesus didn't tell us to mind our own business, he told us to go into the world and preach.