Saint Peter's communities - mentioned in his first letter.

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,200
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
James was the first head of the church but you know all this, it is a shame you cant see through the deception of the church of trying to present Peter as the head of it but hey I guess he lived to when it ws founded much later, right?

Saint James is not even mentioned until fairly late in Acts. Saint Peter was there on the day of Pentecost. Who spoke then? Who took the lead as the Spirit guided the assembly of faithful Christians? It was saint Peter. But saint Peter did not found the Church. The Lord Jesus Christ did that.
 

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,927
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Eusebius and St. Jerome say that saint Peter was in Rome when he wrote the first of his letters.

The map you published in the op did not.

Could you give the exact DATE in which these two expressed their pov on this (both lived THREE CENTURIES after Peter) and how exactly they knew this?
Did they say Peter had been demoted to just a bishop and as just such served in Rome? How did they know?
Why does it seem St. Paul did not know about Peter and Rome and all - yet two men who lived THREE CENTURIES later knew all this dogmatically?



.
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,200
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
The map you published in the op did not.

Could you give the exact DATE in which these two expressed their pov on this? Did they say Peter had been demoted to just a bishop and as just such served in Rome? How did they know?

Eusebius was early to mid 4th century saint Jerome was 5th century. Eusebius was a historian (of his day), His ecclesiastical histories is regarded as based on sources that he considered to be ancient most of which have not survived to our day except as quoted by him and some others. Saint Peter wrote (or dictated) his first letter some time before 63 AD in the last chapter of that letter saint Peter mentions Babylon (an apparent circumlocution for Rome).


PS: it appears that you've edited your post while I typed my reply.
 

psalms 91

Well-known member
Moderator
Valued Contributor
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2015
Messages
15,283
Age
75
Location
Pa
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Charismatic
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Babylon is not and was not Rome or even close to it
 

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,927
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Josiah said:


The map you published in the op did not.


Could you give the exact DATE in which these two expressed their pov on this (both lived THREE CENTURIES after Peter) and how exactly they knew this?
Did they say Peter had been demoted to just a bishop and as just such served in Rome? How did they know?
Why does it seem St. Paul did not know about Peter and Rome and all - yet two men who lived THREE CENTURIES later knew all this dogmatically?



.

Eusebius was early to mid 4th century saint Jerome was 5th century


So, how did they KNOW that Peter was in Rome 300 - 400 years EARLIER?

Why didn't anyone earlier than that know that? Why does it seem St. Paul didn't know that? Why doesn't the penman of Acts seems not to know that? But two guys - 300 to 400 years later - know it dogmatically?

Did they say that Peter had done something horrible and was demoted from Apostle to just a bishop? If so, did they say why (being that they lived FOUR CENTURIES LATER and thus would KNOW)?

Why did the map you posted in the op that you want us to discuss not show Peter in Rome?



.
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,200
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Josiah, they knew because their sources said so.
 

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,927
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Josiah, they knew because their sources said so.

List their sources. Give names, dates and how they KNEW. And if you can, when it is first claimed that Peter had done something so horrible as to be demoted from Apostle to just a bishop and serves as just a bishop in the city of
Rome as a leader in the specific, singular, individual RC Denomination. If you can produce that list of sources and their quotes back to 65 AD you might have something. Otherwise, you have men who lived OVER THREE HUNDRED YEARS after Peter.

The map you presented to us in the op, the map you want us to discuss, does NOT show Peter in Rome. Curious, coming from a Catholic.




.
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,200
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Josiah, I may get around to giving the passages where they make their claim about saint Peter in Rome and his first letter. I am not going to reproduce their sources. I said they have not survived to our day.
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,200
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Here's the passage from Eusebius
Chapter 15. The Gospel according to Mark.

1. And thus when the divine word had made its home among them, the power of Simon was quenched and immediately destroyed, together with the man himself. And so greatly did the splendor of piety illumine the minds of Peter's hearers that they were not satisfied with hearing once only, and were not content with the unwritten teaching of the divine Gospel, but with all sorts of entreaties they besought Mark, a follower of Peter, and the one whose Gospel is extant, that he would leave them a written monument of the doctrine which had been orally communicated to them. Nor did they cease until they had prevailed with the man, and had thus become the occasion of the written Gospel which bears the name of Mark.

2. And they say that Peter — when he had learned, through a revelation of the Spirit, of that which had been done — was pleased with the zeal of the men, and that the work obtained the sanction of his authority for the purpose of being used in the churches. Clement in the eighth book of his Hypotyposes gives this account, and with him agrees the bishop of Hierapolis named Papias. And Peter makes mention of Mark in his first epistle which they say that he wrote in Rome itself, as is indicated by him, when he calls the city, by a figure, Babylon, as he does in the following words: The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, salutes you; and so does Marcus my son.​
(source)
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,200
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Here's saint Jerome on Peter being in Rome:
Chapter 1

Simon Peter the son of John, from the village of Bethsaida in the province of Galilee, brother of Andrew the apostle, and himself chief of the apostles, after having been bishop of the church of Antioch and having preached to the Dispersion — the believers in circumcision, in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia— pushed on to Rome in the second year of Claudius to overthrow Simon Magus, and held the sacerdotal chair there for twenty-five years until the last, that is the fourteenth, year of Nero. At his hands he received the crown of martyrdom being nailed to the cross with his head towards the ground and his feet raised on high, asserting that he was unworthy to be crucified in the same manner as his Lord. He wrote two epistles which are called Catholic, the second of which, on account of its difference from the first in style, is considered by many not to be by him. Then too the Gospel according to Mark, who was his disciple and interpreter, is ascribed to him. On the other hand, the books, of which one is entitled his Acts, another his Gospel, a third his Preaching, a fourth his Revelation, a fifth his Judgment are rejected as apocryphal.
Buried at Rome in the Vatican near the triumphal way he is venerated by the whole world.

...

Chapter 8

Mark the disciple and interpreter of Peter wrote a short gospel at the request of the brethren at Rome embodying what he had heard Peter tell. When Peter had heard this, he approved it and published it to the churches to be read by his authority as Clemens in the sixth book of his Hypotyposes and Papias, bishop of Hierapolis, record. Peter also mentions this Mark in his first epistle, figuratively indicating Rome under the name of Babylon She who is in Babylon elect together with you salutes you and so does Mark my son. So, taking the gospel which he himself composed, he went to Egypt and first preaching Christ at Alexandria he formed a church so admirable in doctrine and continence of living that he constrained all followers of Christ to his example. Philo most learned of the Jews seeing the first church at Alexandria still Jewish in a degree, wrote a book on their manner of life as something creditable to his nation telling how, as Luke says, the believers had all things in common at Jerusalem, so he recorded that he saw was done at Alexandria, under the learned Mark. He died in the eighth year of Nero and was buried at Alexandria, Annianus succeeding him.​
(source)

A lot of the work mentioned in (source) above is about saint Peter check chapters 1,5,811,12,15,16,18,22,41.
 

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,927
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
List their sources. Give names, dates and how they KNEW. And if you can, when it is first claimed that Peter had done something so horrible as to be demoted from Apostle to just a bishop and serves as just a bishop in the city of
Rome as a leader in the specific, singular, individual RC Denomination. If you can produce that list of sources and their quotes back to 65 AD you might have something. Otherwise, you have men who lived OVER THREE HUNDRED YEARS after Peter.

The map you presented to us in the op, the map you want us to discuss, does NOT show Peter in Rome. Curious, coming from a Catholic.




.
 
Top Bottom