Remembering 9/11

[Lamb]

Strav, stop.

 

[Stravinsk]

Strav, stop.

Stop what? Using my brain? Appealing to facts and reason? Answering hatred and willful ignorance and blanket hatred towards myself and people who share similar views by people who are oh so willing to believe whatever they are told or shown and do the greater evil of supporting justified mass murder abroad because of their comfortable fictions?

Tell me my actions are not Christian. Do it.

 

[Lamb]

Stop causing my thread to go in a direction other than what it was meant for.

 

[MarkFL]

Stop what? Using my brain? Appealing to facts and reason? Answering hatred and willful ignorance and blanket hatred towards myself and people who share similar views by people who are oh so willing to believe whatever they are told or shown and do the greater evil of supporting justified mass murder abroad because of their comfortable fictions?

Tell me my actions are not Christian. Do it.

Who was behind the attacks is not the topic of this thread...at all...this thread was for us to pause and give remembrance to all the innocent lives so violently and tragically brought to an end on that infamous day.

As I previously stated, my only possible objection to what you initially posted is where (and when) you posted it. There are 365 other days in this year of 2016, and you could have started your own thread about the conspiracies you feel were behind the 9/11 attacks. I wouldn't even have objected one bit to you posting that in another thread on the 11th of this month. But to post it here in a thread with the intention to remember the fallen is simply not in good taste. I would say this is what has our community hackles up, not what you posted but where you posted it.

Had you ceased after having this pointed out to you, that would have shown a willingness to be respectful of the feelings of the community, but instead you insisted on defending your position rather than taking a moment to actually understand our objections. And this is what has now dominated this thread. I suspect some in the community who would have posted here, have been put off by it and moved on, keeping their remembrances to themselves.

This has nothing to do with being a Christian or not...I'm not a Christian and I know better than to do what you've done in this thread. So please, do the right thing and let it drop.

 

[Stravinsk]

Who was behind the attacks is not the topic of this thread...at all...this thread was for us to pause and give remembrance to all the innocent lives so violently and tragically brought to an end on that infamous day.

As I previously stated, my only possible objection to what you initially posted is where (and when) you posted it. There are 365 other days in this year of 2016, and you could have started your own thread about the conspiracies you feel were behind the 9/11 attacks. I wouldn't even have objected one bit to you posting that in another thread on the 11th of this month. But to post it here in a thread with the intention to remember the fallen is simply not in good taste. I would say this is what has our community hackles up, not what you posted but where you posted it.

Had you ceased after having this pointed out to you, that would have shown a willingness to be respectful of the feelings of the community, but instead you insisted on defending your position rather than taking a moment to actually understand our objections. And this is what has now dominated this thread. I suspect some in the community who would have posted here, have been put off by it and moved on, keeping their remembrances to themselves.

This has nothing to do with being a Christian or not...I'm not a Christian and I know better than to do what you've done in this thread. So please, do the right thing and let it drop.

Mark - My initial post was simply pointing out my views without being really specific about them, and that because of them I could not honor any 9-11 ceremonies, remembrances and the like. Bill decided to get angry because he doesn't agree and probably didn't understand my position(s) in the first place, so he decided to say people like me are "something he can't mention". Then he decided to bait me with statements which I saw as a dare for me to respond the way he thought I would and thus shame me or provide some material to bash me on. Then Ruth chimed in with a comment about how she wanted me banned, but now she feels sorry for me. For what reason? Apparently I don't have a taste for the Kool-Aid when I can smell the stench before it hits my tongue.

It's really safe for me to say that at this point I was simply stating my honest views about why I would shun any 9-11 remembrances - being as those kinds of remembrances are likely to involve what I consider a lot of bs government and media propaganda - and a few people didn't like it.

Now you are challenging me. Oy vey - I must therefore continue and respond.

Who was behind the attacks is not the topic of this thread...at all...this thread was for us to pause and give remembrance to all the innocent lives so violently and tragically brought to an end on that infamous day.

You're correct. The heart of this thread is to mourn for the brave souls who either died or were injured/died and/or were heros who sacrificed themselves on Sept 11, right?

While were all being human and compassionate and displaying our best qualities through prayers and well wishes, why not include the scores more deaths that America (with large public approval and support because of this incident) has inflicted on the lives of the truly innocent men, women and children in Afghanistan and Iraq in the last decade or so? Are we mourning those too? Or is it just the "3000" in the USA? How about those wonderful torture camps and the large approval they had at one time among Americans (only for the evil Arab suspects, of course)? Are we including that in the mourning - the lives tortured because of collective heads in the sand?

The heart of these kinds of remembrances isn't really about humanity - it's about nationalism. No where near 3000 died that day - it's just that we have been TOLD there were, and not many actually look into it. Many of the victims are fakes - at least those portrayed on the memorial sites. Much of the story and videos are fake. There is a reason for that - they needed to boost numbers and drama so people could "remember" an event that did not happen as they say, so that they could boost the collective pride and nationalism on the path to war (which, btw - had already been planned prior to 911, also proveable)

You say it is disrespectful to community feelings. I doubt any one person or couple of people here represents "community feelings". We aren't all from the USA either, and I doubt I am alone in my feelings or my views - even here.

As far as Christian (or just plain moral) actions are concerned - it is an absolute good to bring truth (and evidence fro truth) to counter errors - which is what I did when challenged - especially when those errors are built into ceremonies or other forms of remembrance designed to justify absolutely horrific ends.


If any person thinks I am being callous in my original statement - then I'll ask you straight out - are you mourning for the RESULTS of the blinders you have let yourself be led to believe? Do any other lives matter that are involved in this incident or the horrors that it begat on other peoples - or is it just about some American citizens trying to feel "ok" about what their military has been doing in their name. Afghanistan. Murdering a bunch of people. Well, REMEMBER 911. Iraq. Murdering and bombing even more people. Well, REMEMBER 911. Prayers for all the victims of 911. Those 3000 people. Oh the tragedy. 3000! It's actually a tiny number compared to the deaths that have resulted because of it - of both soldiers and innocent people abroad. But remember the 3000, right.

What a horror to that fiction if people actually looked into those 3000...and discovered there was some evidence that they were made up? Or that a great deal of them were? No more excuses then.

I'll say it before and I'll say it again - let there be a draft.

Vietnam had one - then the "Pentagon Papers" came out and oh...erm...herm - yes, maybe we should reconsider this Vietnam thing...could be me or my son or daughter going to war. Lots of protests - Civil disobedience.

But there is no draft. And 911's "Pentagon Papers" are EVERYWHERE for any honestly seeking and discerning person to investigate.

 

[psalms 91]

Mark - My initial post was simply pointing out my views without being really specific about them, and that because of them I could not honor any 9-11 ceremonies, remembrances and the like. Bill decided to get angry because he doesn't agree and probably didn't understand my position(s) in the first place, so he decided to say people like me are "something he can't mention". Then he decided to bait me with statements which I saw as a dare for me to respond the way he thought I would and thus shame me or provide some material to bash me on. Then Ruth chimed in with a comment about how she wanted me banned, but now she feels sorry for me. For what reason? Apparently I don't have a taste for the Kool-Aid when I can smell the stench before it hits my tongue.

It's really safe for me to say that at this point I was simply stating my honest views about why I would shun any 9-11 remembrances - being as those kinds of remembrances are likely to involve what I consider a lot of bs government and media propaganda - and a few people didn't like it.

Now you are challenging me. Oy vey - I must therefore continue and respond.



You're correct. The heart of this thread is to mourn for the brave souls who either died or were injured/died and/or were heros who sacrificed themselves on Sept 11, right?

While were all being human and compassionate and displaying our best qualities through prayers and well wishes, why not include the scores more deaths that America (with large public approval and support because of this incident) has inflicted on the lives of the truly innocent men, women and children in Afghanistan and Iraq in the last decade or so? Are we mourning those too? Or is it just the "3000" in the USA? How about those wonderful torture camps and the large approval they had at one time among Americans (only for the evil Arab suspects, of course)? Are we including that in the mourning - the lives tortured because of collective heads in the sand?

The heart of these kinds of remembrances isn't really about humanity - it's about nationalism. No where near 3000 died that day - it's just that we have been TOLD there were, and not many actually look into it. Many of the victims are fakes - at least those portrayed on the memorial sites. Much of the story and videos are fake. There is a reason for that - they needed to boost numbers and drama so people could "remember" an event that did not happen as they say, so that they could boost the collective pride and nationalism on the path to war (which, btw - had already been planned prior to 911, also proveable)

You say it is disrespectful to community feelings. I doubt any one person or couple of people here represents "community feelings". We aren't all from the USA either, and I doubt I am alone in my feelings or my views - even here.

As far as Christian (or just plain moral) actions are concerned - it is an absolute good to bring truth (and evidence fro truth) to counter errors - which is what I did when challenged - especially when those errors are built into ceremonies or other forms of remembrance designed to justify absolutely horrific ends.


If any person thinks I am being callous in my original statement - then I'll ask you straight out - are you mourning for the RESULTS of the blinders you have let yourself be led to believe? Do any other lives matter that are involved in this incident or the horrors that it begat on other peoples - or is it just about some American citizens trying to feel "ok" about what their military has been doing in their name. Afghanistan. Murdering a bunch of people. Well, REMEMBER 911. Iraq. Murdering and bombing even more people. Well, REMEMBER 911. Prayers for all the victims of 911. Those 3000 people. Oh the tragedy. 3000! It's actually a tiny number compared to the deaths that have resulted because of it - of both soldiers and innocent people abroad. But remember the 3000, right.

What a horror to that fiction if people actually looked into those 3000...and discovered there was some evidence that they were made up? Or that a great deal of them were? No more excuses then.

I'll say it before and I'll say it again - let there be a draft.

Vietnam had one - then the "Pentagon Papers" came out and oh...erm...herm - yes, maybe we should reconsider this Vietnam thing...could be me or my son or daughter going to war. Lots of protests - Civil disobedience.

But there is no draft. And 911's "Pentagon Papers" are EVERYWHERE for any honestly seeking and discerning person to investigate.

You still dont get it do you? This thread is about remembering the bravery and lost lives, NOT ABOUT YOU and your theories.

 

[Romanos]

While we're entitled to our opinions, there is a time and place for everything. Discussion of anything over than remembering the victims in the attack should have been done in another thread.

Closed.