False teachers
- Thread starter Lamb
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2015
- Messages
- 19,194
- Location
- Western Australia
- Gender
- Male
- Religious Affiliation
- Catholic
- Political Affiliation
- Moderate
- Marital Status
- Single
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
Word of faith teachers teach many errors and mislead many but they are not alone; those who teach that self improvement in this life is the core teaching of the holy scriptures and that good health, a good job, wealth, and earthly happiness are to be the greatest and most desired goals in the Christian life are teaching grave error. So to are the teachers who insist that Christian are bound to keep kosher, observe the seventh day as sabbath, listen to current day and modern day prophets, have apostles and prophets, or elevate themselves as masters in the household of God, these teachers are teaching error.We know there are false teachers and they are even within the church as high profile leaders
Which famous evangelists do you feel are teaching false theology?
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2015
- Messages
- 19,194
- Location
- Western Australia
- Gender
- Male
- Religious Affiliation
- Catholic
- Political Affiliation
- Moderate
- Marital Status
- Single
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
You will not make an enemy of me, that young man's 'poem' is full of errors and propagates many attitudes that the world holds to as justification for ignoring the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2015
- Messages
- 19,194
- Location
- Western Australia
- Gender
- Male
- Religious Affiliation
- Catholic
- Political Affiliation
- Moderate
- Marital Status
- Single
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
I suppose it is the Televangelist's version of keeping up with the Joneses only in this case the one to keep up with is some other wealthy televangelist with more than one jet ... Kenneth Copeland comes to mind
Last edited:
Pelikan
Active member
- Joined
- May 23, 2015
- Messages
- 35
- Gender
- Male
- Religious Affiliation
- Baptist
- Political Affiliation
- Conservative
- Marital Status
- In Relationship
Joel Osteen probably takes the cake, but then again, I consider most of the Charismatic movement to be Satanic.
I mean, it certainly isn't of God, so that kinda narrows it down a bit.
I mean, it certainly isn't of God, so that kinda narrows it down a bit.
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2015
- Messages
- 14,695
- Location
- Realms of chaos
- Gender
- Male
- Religious Affiliation
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
Anyone who says we don't need to test things immediately gets put on my "false teacher" list.
Bill Johnson (who I mentioned earlier) seems to have a particular dislike for Bible study. Likewise Brent Engelman used to teach (he may still do, I haven't looked at his material for some months) that testing dreams and visions wasn't necessary. They both pull fine-sounding rhetoric out of the woodwork (with maybe the odd misappropriated Bible verse) to kind-of-support what they are saying but neither seem very good when compared against Paul's "test all things", John's "test the spirits", Jesus' warning not to be deceived, Paul's exhortation to "study to show thyself approved unto God" and "examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith".
Bill Johnson (who I mentioned earlier) seems to have a particular dislike for Bible study. Likewise Brent Engelman used to teach (he may still do, I haven't looked at his material for some months) that testing dreams and visions wasn't necessary. They both pull fine-sounding rhetoric out of the woodwork (with maybe the odd misappropriated Bible verse) to kind-of-support what they are saying but neither seem very good when compared against Paul's "test all things", John's "test the spirits", Jesus' warning not to be deceived, Paul's exhortation to "study to show thyself approved unto God" and "examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith".
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2015
- Messages
- 15,282
- Age
- 75
- Location
- Pa
- Gender
- Male
- Religious Affiliation
- Charismatic
- Political Affiliation
- Conservative
- Marital Status
- Married
I to believe in testing as well but it will be the spirit within you that is the ultimate judge of what is true and I pray that everyone can hear the spirit within them
Hammster
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2015
- Messages
- 1,459
- Age
- 56
- Gender
- Male
- Religious Affiliation
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Married
No, it comparing what they say against what scripture says. We aren't Mormons looking for the burning in our bosom.
Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2015
- Messages
- 14,695
- Location
- Realms of chaos
- Gender
- Male
- Religious Affiliation
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
Not even close.
What do you do when one person's spirit says something is good while another's says it is bad? It can't be both at once.
If only there was some objective standard of truth we might fall back on...
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2015
- Messages
- 15,282
- Age
- 75
- Location
- Pa
- Gender
- Male
- Religious Affiliation
- Charismatic
- Political Affiliation
- Conservative
- Marital Status
- Married
Then someone is not hearing from God and is being decieved and of course we have a standard, I do understand you even though you dont seem to understand me unless it is spelled out. I hope as we get to know one another we can have a conversation without all the explanations or else I am afraid the conversations will be few as that becomes tedious unless a new believer or an unbeliever that doesnt understand.
Hammster
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2015
- Messages
- 1,459
- Age
- 56
- Gender
- Male
- Religious Affiliation
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Married
popsthebuilder
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2015
- Messages
- 1,850
- Gender
- Male
- Religious Affiliation
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Single
False teachings of the Word of God through the crusifixion of Christ are are blasphemy, and the only damning sin that won't be considered for forgiveness. Thank you, praise God.
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2015
- Messages
- 14,695
- Location
- Realms of chaos
- Gender
- Male
- Religious Affiliation
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
The trouble is you can't have it both ways. You previously said:
So which is it?
If it is "the spirit within" that is the ultimate judge then in a situation like the one I described (which is a real example I personally encountered, not just something hypothetical) you can't say that it's "the spirit within" that is the ultimate judge. Clearly somebody was wrong - either what was going on was of God or it was not. If it was then my judgment was badly off, if it was not then the judgment of most of a church was badly off. Which was it? You can't say that "the spirit within is the ultimate judge" and then try to wriggle out of it when a situation arises where the spirit within somebody is wrong.
Hence the need to use an objective standard to test when situations like this arise. And if we have an objective standard it makes sense to use it anyway - had I not been present in the situation I described you'd have had a room full of people who thought what they were seeing was good, apparently with no dissent. The lack of dissent doesn't mean what they were seeing was good, it just makes it less likely that anyone would stop to test it. It's possible that my discernment that it was bad was wrong, in which case going back to an objective standard would highlight the fact that I was wrong and they were right.
This isn't about me not understanding you unless it's spelled out, it's about trying to define whether you believe in testing using Scripture or testing using some vague concept of "the spirit within" even though "the spirit within" is demonstrably not a reliable means of testing at all.
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2015
- Messages
- 15,282
- Age
- 75
- Location
- Pa
- Gender
- Male
- Religious Affiliation
- Charismatic
- Political Affiliation
- Conservative
- Marital Status
- Married
Oh I believe in scripture and I also believe in the leading of the spirit, one thing I do know is that the spirit will always testify to what is of God, no double talk there to anyone who understands it. Do situations arise like you described, sure, usually because someone is seeking signs rather than God or else just plain doesnt recognize what is spirit and truth and what is a lie. The latter I am afraid is where many within the church fall.
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2015
- Messages
- 14,695
- Location
- Realms of chaos
- Gender
- Male
- Religious Affiliation
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
The Holy Spirit will always testify of God, I won't argue with that.
My point is that we can't say that the spirit within will be the ultimate judge because the spirit within clearly gets it wrong. The spirit within might give an early indication that something is probably good or probably bad, and it might give us an indication that something might not be right for us even if it is acceptable for others (perhaps someone feels a personal conviction not to drink alcohol but that doesn't make it universally wrong to have a beer), but to use the spirit within as the final judge is to leave ourselves exposed to all sorts of deception. There's nothing to be lost by testing anything against Scripture, however sure we might be that it comes from God. If it is of God it will pass testing; if it is not it will fail testing and we can get rid of it. Needless to say if anyone brings a message and doesn't want to be tested we would do well to ask what they are afraid of.
It is sad that some people seek the gifts more than the givers and the signs more than the destination, which is why we need an objective standard so things don't get lost among the silliness.
Tigger
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2015
- Messages
- 1,555
- Age
- 63
- Gender
- Male
- Religious Affiliation
- Lutheran
- Marital Status
- Married
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
When I was new in the faith the Lord blessed me with a friend who was well versed in the fundamental essential doctrines of the church. So naturally when I heard a false teacher I would detect it pretty quickly and dismiss their teachings. Now that I am more mature in the faith I've even narrowed my list further only wanted the best of the best.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2015
- Messages
- 15,282
- Age
- 75
- Location
- Pa
- Gender
- Male
- Religious Affiliation
- Charismatic
- Political Affiliation
- Conservative
- Marital Status
- Married
I am not saying it is the final and only judge. Scripture says at the mouth of two or theree witnesses, the spirit is but one
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2015
- Messages
- 14,695
- Location
- Realms of chaos
- Gender
- Male
- Religious Affiliation
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
You did say it was the ultimate judge - your precise words were "it will be the spirit within you that is the ultimate judge of what is true". If by "the ultimate judge" you didn't mean "the final judge", what does "the ultimate judge" mean?
The "two or three witnesses" issue doesn't work in the realms of spiritual gifts - if you gather a handful of false prophets who all affirm each other as true prophets they don't become true prophets even though "the mouths of two or three witnesses" confirm them all to be prophets. It falls down doubly because you end up with a situation where some people hail an individual as a prophet while others ignore than as crazy. Which is right - both sides have "the mouths of two or three witnesses" to support them, and therefore two mutually exclusive viewpoints are deemed to be true.
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2015
- Messages
- 15,282
- Age
- 75
- Location
- Pa
- Gender
- Male
- Religious Affiliation
- Charismatic
- Political Affiliation
- Conservative
- Marital Status
- Married
What is right is the spirit, the true spirit and God word. Problem is that what you describe is in the physical and the physical cannot deal with spiritual, only spiritual can deal with spiritual so what now? If you can touch it and feel it and see it then faith doesnt even enter into the eqution and without faith you will never understand spiritual. Yes, we are to judge by the Word but also by thye spirit. Prophets that are false will not wirtness with your spirit and there will not be a second witness either so problem solved rather than trying to make things complicated. God is not the author of confusion so what does that tell you?