Who identifies as Charismatic

[psalms 91]

How many people on this site identify as charasmatic?

 

[tango]

How many people on this site identify as charasmatic?

I'd regard myself as essentially charismatic, in that I believe the Holy Spirit still indwells Christians, the gifts of the Spirit are still active in the people to whom God chooses to give them, and God still performs miracles today.

As I may have mentioned once or twice before I reject the teachings of the likes of Bill Johnson, the ones I'd call hypercharismatic (or charismanic, depending) because I think they diverge so far from Scripture they are dangerous.

 

[psalms 91]

We may all have different beliefs to some extent but we are all brothers

 

[tango]

We may all have different beliefs to some extent but we are all brothers

When one's beliefs stray sufficiently far from core theology I would question whether everyone who claims the name of Christ is still a brother.

Paul was clear that if someone brings a different gospel they are accursed (literally, "anathema"). I'm not sure that someone bringing a different gospel should be considered a brother.

 

[Tigger]

Well I figure I'm at least pentecostal due to that's the birthday of the church :woot:

How many people on this site identify as charasmatic?

 

[psalms 91]

When one's beliefs stray sufficiently far from core theology I would question whether everyone who claims the name of Christ is still a brother.

Paul was clear that if someone brings a different gospel they are accursed (literally, "anathema"). I'm not sure that someone bringing a different gospel should be considered a brother.

What I will say is that we all bring a different gospel to some extent and noone is 100 mper cent right. If you adhere to I am right and you are wrong it will be a lonely place to be and probably a small church as well. Doctrines differ from denomination to denomination but if the core beliefs in Jesus Christ are there then they are my brothers whether I completely agree of not. Yes, things like snake handling and the such I do not consider of God but are they any less a brother?

 

[tango]

What I will say is that we all bring a different gospel to some extent and noone is 100 mper cent right. If you adhere to I am right and you are wrong it will be a lonely place to be and probably a small church as well. Doctrines differ from denomination to denomination but if the core beliefs in Jesus Christ are there then they are my brothers whether I completely agree of not. Yes, things like snake handling and the such I do not consider of God but are they any less a brother?

I'm not concerned about snake handling. If someone brings a gospel preaching a different Christ I would have to consider whether they truly are a brother in Christ or not.

I'm not interested in divisions over petty issues but if Jesus is to be our foundation we can't have people presenting a different Jesus and being given a free pass. If we allow that then we have to consider Muslims to be brothers in Christ as well.

 

[psalms 91]

I'm not concerned about snake handling. If someone brings a gospel preaching a different Christ I would have to consider whether they truly are a brother in Christ or not.

I'm not interested in divisions over petty issues but if Jesus is to be our foundation we can't have people presenting a different Jesus and being given a free pass. If we allow that then we have to consider Muslims to be brothers in Christ as well.

I guess I have to make myself more clear for those who dont seem to understand what I say. I am talking about that Jesus is the Son of God, that He came to take away the sin of the world, that He doied and rose again and now sits on the right hand of God. Core beliefs that muslims and Mormons do not support. Mormons view Him as something other than the son of God and muslims view Him as a prophet. I really hope that now people will understand what I say, I guess I just assume that people know what I mean by core beliefs but apparently not

 

[popsthebuilder]

The awareness of being charismatic inwardly is negative.

Faith in selfless Unity through Good

 

[tango]

I guess I have to make myself more clear for those who dont seem to understand what I say. I am talking about that Jesus is the Son of God, that He came to take away the sin of the world, that He doied and rose again and now sits on the right hand of God. Core beliefs that muslims and Mormons do not support. Mormons view Him as something other than the son of God and muslims view Him as a prophet. I really hope that now people will understand what I say, I guess I just assume that people know what I mean by core beliefs but apparently not

In your previous post you wrote:

What I will say is that we all bring a different gospel to some extent and noone is 100 mper cent right. If you adhere to I am right and you are wrong it will be a lonely place to be and probably a small church as well. Doctrines differ from denomination to denomination but if the core beliefs in Jesus Christ are there then they are my brothers whether I completely agree of not. Yes, things like snake handling and the such I do not consider of God but are they any less a brother?

We all have differences of opinion, but when someone appears to demote Jesus from "the Christ, the Son of the living God" to "a Christ, a son of the living God" I have to ask whether the gospel they bring is sufficiently different from the core gospel that they should be regarded as an enemy of the true gospel, and therefore not a brother in Christ. Would you regard such a demotion to represent a sufficient deviation from the core gospel to regard such a teacher as not being a brother in Christ?

 

[psalms 91]

In your previous post you wrote:



We all have differences of opinion, but when someone appears to demote Jesus from "the Christ, the Son of the living God" to "a Christ, a son of the living God" I have to ask whether the gospel they bring is sufficiently different from the core gospel that they should be regarded as an enemy of the true gospel, and therefore not a brother in Christ. Would you regard such a demotion to represent a sufficient deviation from the core gospel to regard such a teacher as not being a brother in Christ?

Would have to know the context of what is said to tell you. Bottom line is you must accept Christ as the son of God and as personal saviour

 

[tango]

Would have to know the context of what is said to tell you. Bottom line is you must accept Christ as the son of God and as personal saviour

So would you argue that it is within the core theology to demote Jesus to "a Christ, a son of the living God" because we can have the same "Christ anointing" that Jesus had and claim that Jesus performed miracles as "a man in right relationship with God" but "not as God"? Or would you say that such claims would tag a teacher as bringing another gospel and a false Jesus?

If I can have the same "Christ anointing" that Jesus had then doesn't it logically follow that I don't need a Saviour at all? If I can have the same "Christ anointing" that Jesus had then I end up more or less at the same level as Jesus himself, no?

 

[psalms 91]

So would you argue that it is within the core theology to demote Jesus to "a Christ, a son of the living God" because we can have the same "Christ anointing" that Jesus had and claim that Jesus performed miracles as "a man in right relationship with God" but "not as God"? Or would you say that such claims would tag a teacher as bringing another gospel and a false Jesus?

If I can have the same "Christ anointing" that Jesus had then doesn't it logically follow that I don't need a Saviour at all? If I can have the same "Christ anointing" that Jesus had then I end up more or less at the same level as Jesus himself, no?

Sigh, Jesus was God and man. He was man in the flesh or else satan could have cried foul because He operated as God rather than man. He obeyed God and derived His annointing from the fact He never sinned and was highly blessed of God and the Spirit. What Jesus did we can do also as He said that greater works would be done than what He had performed. God does not respect persons and what is available to one is available to all providing we can fulfill what is required to walk in that annointing. What I am saying is that yes, we have available the same annointing, the same spirit, the same ability to perform miracles providing God allows and directs and recieves the glory. All we have to do is to be conformed into the image of Christ. If we could allow our flesh to die so to speak so that nothing but Christ came through then yes, we would be able to do the same things. Problem is that we do sin and we do have flesh that is not put under so we do not reach the pinnacle that Christ was at and furthmore there are those who scoff and dont believe. How many do you jknow in the church that even comes close to this? I only know of one man who is far from it but a lot closer than most in the church in all the years I have been around so that says something about the state of the church and a lot about why miracles are not happening as much as we would like

 

[tango]

Sigh, Jesus was God and man. He was man in the flesh or else satan could have cried foul because He operated as God rather than man.

So if he didn't operate as God how did he forgive sins? Did he have a "God hat" that he'd put on and take off, so he could put on his magic hat to forgive sins, then take it off again to heal, then put it back on to confound the Pharisees, then take it back off again to hang out with the disciples for a bit, then put it back on again to convict someone of their sins, then take it off again to have a drink?

He obeyed God and derived His annointing from the fact He never sinned and was highly blessed of God and the Spirit.

So when was he anointed? Did he only gain his anointing at the end of his life, when it was known he hadn't sinned at all?

What Jesus did we can do also as He said that greater works would be done than what He had performed.

Except the word translated "works" is the Greek word ergon which relates to works of the hands, not miracles. The word translated as "sign" in the gospels is semeion.

God does not respect persons and what is available to one is available to all providing we can fulfill what is required to walk in that annointing.

Except that God doesn't give the gifts to everybody.

1Co 12:7-11 NKJV But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: (8) for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, (9) to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, (10) to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. (11) But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills. (italics mine)

If God has not given me the gift of tongues I will not speak in tongues. If God has not given me the gift of prophecy I cannot prophesy. If God has not given me the gift of working miracles I cannot do that.

What I am saying is that yes, we have available the same annointing, the same spirit, the same ability to perform miracles providing God allows and directs and recieves the glory.

It seems Paul disagrees with you:

1Co 12:29-30 NKJV Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? (30) Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?

All we have to do is to be conformed into the image of Christ. If we could allow our flesh to die so to speak so that nothing but Christ came through then yes, we would be able to do the same things.

You still don't overcome Paul's assertion that the gifts are given individually. Perhaps God wants some of us to focus on our prayer lives and never do anything that unbelievers would see as supernatural. Perhaps God wants some of us to perform signs and wonders so people marvel and give him glory. Perhaps God wants some of us to be imprisoned for our faith so we can reach the prison staff with the gospel.

Problem is that we do sin and we do have flesh that is not put under so we do not reach the pinnacle that Christ was at and furthmore there are those who scoff and dont believe.

Sadly the silly fringes of the charismatic and pentecostal movements have given people good reason to scoff. When people make grandiose claims that never seem to actually come true it's hard to see what response we should expect other than scoffing.

How many do you jknow in the church that even comes close to this? I only know of one man who is far from it but a lot closer than most in the church in all the years I have been around so that says something about the state of the church and a lot about why miracles are not happening as much as we would like

None of us are perfect. Paul was very open about the fact he was far from perfect. Peter openly denied Jesus and look how God used him.

I don't dispute there is a lot of imperfection in the church today, but to say that if we could just get rid of that then we'd all be working miracles daily flies in the face of what Paul teaches in 1 Corinthians.

 

[psalms 91]

That is just to much to answer in one post so I will leave it but suffice it to say that we have the same thing available to us that Christ did. As to whe n was He annointed for ministry what does it say He came out of the wilderness with? I am curious do you deny He was man in the flesh? Do you not think that if He operated on earth as God that satan would not have pointed out that God couldnt sin? Jesus could have sinned but did not. He fulfilled the Law perfectly but He did it as a man, not as God. All the rest doesnt really matter. Are gifts given individually, of course because no one has the fullness that Jesus did nor can we. We have all sinned and come short, we all still sin, enough already I am now beginning to underestand why people like denomination specific forums.

 

[tango]

That is just to much to answer in one post so I will leave it but suffice it to say that we have the same thing available to us that Christ did.

Sorry, you're not going to get away with simply restating the same thing without answering the question of how you get to that conclusion. If you can't answer the question just say so.

As to whe n was He annointed for ministry what does it say He came out of the wilderness with?

So he was anointed before his life ended, so he could have sinned while anointed?

I am curious do you deny He was man in the flesh?

Not at all, he was God in human flesh.

Do you not think that if He operated on earth as God that satan would not have pointed out that God couldnt sin?

I'm not really interested in speculating as to what the devil may or may not have claimed.

Jesus could have sinned but did not.

So if God couldn't sin, but Jesus could have sinned, are you saying Jesus was not God?

He fulfilled the Law perfectly but He did it as a man, not as God.

The issue wasn't whether he fulfilled the Law but whether he performed miracles as God or as a man.

All the rest doesnt really matter.

Really? It seems to me you're dodging the questions by claiming they don't matter.

Are gifts given individually, of course because no one has the fullness that Jesus did nor can we.

But earlier you said "what is available to one is available to all providing we can fulfill what is required to walk in that annointing". So which is it? Can we all have all the gifts, or are they given individually? If the gift of tongues is available to one then on the basis of your previous post it's available to anyone who can "fulfill what is required to walk in that anointing" and since the person with the gift of tongues can clearly "walk in that anointing" (whatever that means) it follows that other humans can do likewise. So are gifts universal or individual?

We have all sinned and come short, we all still sin, enough already I am now beginning to underestand why people like denomination specific forums.

The fact we have all sinned isn't really the issue here.

Why does this point towards a denomination-specific forum? If you can't answer what are really fairly simple questions why would you want to hide away from questioning the belief? Would you seriously seek to avoid testing your viewpoints, sharpening iron with iron? How would that help?

 

[psalms 91]

Sorry, you're not going to get away with simply restating the same thing without answering the question of how you get to that conclusion. If you can't answer the question just say so.



So he was anointed before his life ended, so he could have sinned while anointed?



Not at all, he was God in human flesh.



I'm not really interested in speculating as to what the devil may or may not have claimed.



So if God couldn't sin, but Jesus could have sinned, are you saying Jesus was not God?



The issue wasn't whether he fulfilled the Law but whether he performed miracles as God or as a man.



Really? It seems to me you're dodging the questions by claiming they don't matter.



But earlier you said "what is available to one is available to all providing we can fulfill what is required to walk in that annointing". So which is it? Can we all have all the gifts, or are they given individually? If the gift of tongues is available to one then on the basis of your previous post it's available to anyone who can "fulfill what is required to walk in that anointing" and since the person with the gift of tongues can clearly "walk in that anointing" (whatever that means) it follows that other humans can do likewise. So are gifts universal or individual?



The fact we have all sinned isn't really the issue here.

Why does this point towards a denomination-specific forum? If you can't answer what are really fairly simple questions why would you want to hide away from questioning the belief? Would you seriously seek to avoid testing your viewpoints, sharpening iron with iron? How would that help?

Because I get the feeling that if I said the sky was blue I would get an argument about it is why perhaps denomination specific forums or at least like minded believers can gather. I come here to enjoy it and fellowship with others, not get into endless debates about scripture that change noones mind in terms of what they believe, that was CF and I dont go there much at all anymore and if I do it is only to the fellowship threads, nothing serious. After 10 years over there I am well aware of when someione just wants to come aginst what I do believe and you wont change my mind and I am sure I wont change yours. I am not a scholor by any stretch and while I may know scripture I dont always know where to find it so rather than waste countless hours trying to look up what you already know I will just bow out of threads or at the very leasty just avoid anything that you and your friend might find controversial and leave you to your beliefs. As I have said I have had quite enough of this, after two days of fencing with you and your counterpart I will leave it to others who may wish to spend all their time on this, I dont

 

[MoreCoffee]

How many people on this site identify as charasmatic?

I identify as Christian, as baptised with water and the Spirit, and as having received gifts as the Spirit of God willed to give. And I identify as a Catholic Christian. But I do not identify as a member of a Pentecostal assembly or of any denomination or independent group that calls itself Charismatic.

 

[psalms 91]

I identify as Christian, as baptised with water and the Spirit, and as having received gifts as the Spirit of God willed to give. And I identify as a Catholic Christian. But I do not identify as a member of a Pentecostal assembly or of any denomination or independent group that calls itself Charismatic.

Did you know peaceful dove, she was Catholic as well and a real treasure. Perhaps you could find other Catholics to come here that are charasmatic as well

 

[MoreCoffee]

Did you know peaceful dove, she was Catholic as well and a real treasure. Perhaps you could find other Catholics to come here that are charasmatic as well

There are some Charismatic folk in my parish, I do not know how many, but I do not know any who chat in chat boxes or write posts on message boards.