Jesus is 100% God and 100% man at the same time

[popsthebuilder]

Yes

Thank you Bill. I know we don't always see exactly the same, and that it can be difficult to speak of what you know at times. So thanks, even though it wasn't for me, but what you know to be true.


Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[popsthebuilder]

I take it you don't believe that Jesus is God?

Technically; I see no point in dividing the two now as the Son has gone up to sit on the right hand of the Father. As Jesus walked the earth He was filled with the spirit of GOD. However, as he walked the earth, he was not the utter fullness of GOD. As it is said" one cannot behold the full countenance of GOD in true form. And surely man observed the Christ. I believe what scripture says. And I see repeatedly, over and over, that the Christ directed all praise towards GOD, regarding himself as low though He was perfect in his direction. All throughout the bible praise is given to the Son and the Father. Why is that so if they are one and the same? And please don't say because they are two of the three people of the godhead, I really don't want to start on that at this moment.

So to answer your question; I see no reason to divide the two. To make my point clear; when I pray I often catch myself giving praise and thanks to the Lord and GOD, yet I say or think it as LordGOD, making no distinction between the two generally.

I have many issues with the thought of a man being utterly equivalent to GOD for very good reason. But at the same time I cannot limit the capacity of GOD by saying he couldn't have come on the earth in human form for our sake.

That is sort of why I said I would review the scripture you referenced before going further.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[Alithis]

Only God could be perfect enough for the sacrifice to be accepted. ONLY GOD.

ok.. this is interesting .. first .. I totally know what your saying and where you are coming from .because he "implies indirectly " that jesus is not GOD persea in his former post .. but is the implication intentional ? or is it perceived by the hearer ? because he did not actually SAY "that "?..or did he ?

but the sacrifice did not have to be god for it to be acceptable .. but that which has come forth from god is perfectly acceptable ,being set apart , made holy ,for the purpose , .
God accepted able's offerings (of blood)but not cain's . ,, so what god accepts god accepts . but as in the case of abraham .. where he says 'God wil provide the sacrifice .. he provided Jesus , his son. Jesus came forth from god and returned to god from whence he came ..
he is the manifestation of God speaking , the speaking of God if you will.

he is one with the father, but is he the father ?
he was sent .. by whom?
he is anointed .. by whom ?
and it is written that in the end the anointed one himself is brought into subjection to the father ...

these are not statements -these are questions around things the bible clearly states ... [/U]

though i have one more open Question .. where does the scriptures say he was 100% man and god .. 'at the same time "
over the years i have heard this statement a lot .. and it makes me wonder .
it does say in him the fullness of the godhead dwelt ....
doe it say from birth ? cant be becaseu he did not recive the holy Spirit until he was 30 .. so one aspect/person of the godhead was not dwelling in him until that time .. so until he was 30 how could he be 100% god .

when they scriptures says he was a man like ourselves tempted in the same way we are ... how could he be if he wa 100% god .. god cannot be tempted by evil nither tempteth he any man .

these are questions .. NOT statements

 

[psalms 91]

Thank you Bill. I know we don't always see exactly the same, and that it can be difficult to speak of what you know at times. So thanks, even though it wasn't for me, but what you know to be true.


Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

I agree with you a lot more than you think, I appreciate your posts

 

[psalms 91]

Bottom line is if He did it as God then satan has a right to say no fair, also if He did it as God then how can He relate to us humans and say He went through thethings we go through? No while He was and is God He laid that aside to show us what man can do

 

[Pedrito]

Lämmchen in Post #39 on Page 4 stated:

Only God could be perfect enough for the sacrifice to be accepted. ONLY GOD.

I request that Lämmchen quote Scripture (representative of the “whole counsel of God”), rather than paraphrase the deliberations of “church councils” that were based on human thought processes instead of on God's Direct Holy Revelation to mankind.

In that vein, would Lämmchen please quote direct, pertinent, God-inspired statements (from the New Testament will do) regarding the nature of Jesus' sacrifice from God's perspective – statements that show her proclamation above to be true.

(I think Alithis would appreciate seeing those Scriptures as well.)

I think we can deem God's pronouncements to be authoritative. Can we not?

 

[psalms 91]

I also would like to see that as it was a man that died and paid the price or else it was in vain, we are not God, we are human and the sacrifice had to be human or else satan could say foul.

 

[Lamb]

1 Peter 1:19-20 but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or spot. He was known before the foundation of the world, but was revealed in the last times for your sake.…

I already posted scripture that He is man. I already posted scripture that He is God. Only God could live the perfectly obedient life as man that we could not and be that lamb without blemish and then carry our sins to the cross for forgiveness. Doesn't this look familiar from the old testament scriptures that visionary has posted in other threads to remind us of the perfect lamb? Connect that with the other verses that tell us that no one is righteous and we see that Jesus (who is the Word became flesh) is God. And man.

John 1:14,16
And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory as of a father's only son, full of grace and truth.... From his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace.

John 10:30 I and the Father are one

 

[Alithis]

1 Peter 1:19-20 but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or spot. He was known before the foundation of the world, but was revealed in the last times for your sake.…

I already posted scripture that He is man. I already posted scripture that He is God. Only God could live the perfectly obedient life as man that we could not and be that lamb without blemish and then carry our sins to the cross for forgiveness. Doesn't this look familiar from the old testament scriptures that visionary has posted in other threads to remind us of the perfect lamb? Connect that with the other verses that tell us that no one is righteous and we see that Jesus (who is the Word became flesh) is God. And man.

John 1:14,16
And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory as of a father's only son, full of grace and truth.... From his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace.

John 10:30 I and the Father are one

yup.. we have acknowledge these scriptures .
but my intent was not to oppose you .. but to ASK

in light of those scriptures .. fully acknowledging them
and placing the beside all scripture on the topic .. where does it state he was fully man and fully Gd .. at the same time ? ( and im not saying he was or wasn't .. just asking the question there to be asked )

 

[TurtleHare]

I agree that was the purpose of the Christ. I don't agree that Christ has to be GOD in order to do this. Only wholly of GOD. Of one accord.



Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Colossians 2:9



For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

I wonder why this isn't sufficient enough to prove that Jesus is God and man at the same time since you can connect this with other sripture as well and get the full picture that Jesus is God and Jesus is man.

If that verse doesn't do it for you then here's another one you can read right now
Hebrews 1:3

And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and bupholds all things by the word of His power.

 

[Lamb]

Colossians 2:9



For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

I wonder why this isn't sufficient enough to prove that Jesus is God and man at the same time since you can connect this with other sripture as well and get the full picture that Jesus is God and Jesus is man.

If that verse doesn't do it for you then here's another one you can read right now
Hebrews 1:3

And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and bupholds all things by the word of His power.

Exactly.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Colossians 2:9



For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

I wonder why this isn't sufficient enough to prove that Jesus is God and man at the same time since you can connect this with other sripture as well and get the full picture that Jesus is God and Jesus is man.

If that verse doesn't do it for you then here's another one you can read right now
Hebrews 1:3

And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and bupholds all things by the word of His power.

Colossians 2 (KJV) - ቆሎሴ
2: That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
3: In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
4: And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words. Colossians 2 (KJV) - ቆሎሴ
5: For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.
6: As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
7: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
8: Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Colossians 2 (KJV) - ቆሎሴ
9: For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10: And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Colossians 2 (KJV) - ቆሎሴ
12: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13: And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14: Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; Colossians 2 (KJV) - ቆሎሴ
15: And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16: Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Colossians 2 (KJV) - ቆሎሴ
18: Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
19: And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
20: Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

Colossians 2 (KJV) - ቆሎሴ
22: Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23: Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

These verses are speaking of the way which is Christ, and the limits of the perception of man in relation to their understanding of GOD. It speaks of how Christ is the embodiment of righteousness and how through his example and teachings, we might be children of GOD.



Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Colossians 2:9



For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

I wonder why this isn't sufficient enough to prove that Jesus is God and man at the same time since you can connect this with other sripture as well and get the full picture that Jesus is God and Jesus is man.

If that verse doesn't do it for you then here's another one you can read right now
Hebrews 1:3

And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and bupholds all things by the word of His power.

Hebrews 1 (KJV) - እብራውያን
1: God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2: Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3: Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Again explaining what we can know of GOD is through the teachings and way of the Christ.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[psalms 91]

Hebrews 1 (KJV) - እብራውያን
1: God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2: Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3: Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Again explaining what we can know of GOD is through the teachings and way of the Christ.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

And through the Holy Spirit who will guide us into all truth

 

[Alithis]

Colossians 2 (KJV) - ቆሎሴ
2: That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
3: In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
4: And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words. Colossians 2 (KJV) - ቆሎሴ
5: For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.
6: As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
7: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
8: Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Colossians 2 (KJV) - ቆሎሴ
9: For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10: And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Colossians 2 (KJV) - ቆሎሴ
12: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13: And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14: Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; Colossians 2 (KJV) - ቆሎሴ
15: And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16: Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Colossians 2 (KJV) - ቆሎሴ
18: Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
19: And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
20: Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

Colossians 2 (KJV) - ቆሎሴ
22: Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23: Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

These verses are speaking of the way which is Christ, and the limits of the perception of man in relation to their understanding of GOD. It speaks of how Christ is the embodiment of righteousness and how through his example and teachings, we might be children of GOD.



Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Hebrews 1 (KJV) - እብራውያን
1: God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2: Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3: Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Again explaining what we can know of GOD is through the teachings and way of the Christ.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

so .. do we yet have direct scripture that establishes that the lord Jesus was fully God and fully man .... "at the same time " ... its those three words i'm concerned with only.. -"at the same time " .
we know this is a traditional teaching.. so traditional that we sometimes think its not ok to question it .. but it is always ok to question everything . the moment a religion does not allow the questions is the day it became a dictating cult type thing lol.

so lets put tradtions teaching aside and establish what the word of god does say .

what we know -
the lord jesus is the word of god by whom all things were created
we know he came forth from god
we know he was sent by the father having come forth from the father
we know he was "with" the father before the creation of all things .
we know he returned to the father from whence he came
we know that he is the speaking of the father and only spoke that which the father spoke
we know he only did what the father was doing
we know he was one with the father
we know he is not the father but IS the son
we know he was is and will be
we know before abraham was .. he IS ..
we know he became flesh .. we know as flesh, he was a man like us in every respect other then that he was not born tainted by adam's blood .
this is far from comprehensive ..so ...

---feel free to keep adding what we DO know as all these things are shown plainly in scripture ..
as opposed to what we repeat based only on traditions .....

tbc

 

[MoreCoffee]

this is the sort of discussion you get when every individual decides what the bible means for himself.

 

[psalms 91]

or if you blindly follow an institution

 

[Lamb]

this is the sort of discussion you get when every individual decides what the bible means for himself.

I agree. You can't get more specific than For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form

 

[Alithis]

you cant build a truthful doctrine on a sentence ripped out of its context

 

[Alithis]

this is the sort of discussion you get when every individual decides what the bible means for himself.

it's the sort of discussion rome hates because it causes people to see right through romes lies