... in all controversies of religion, the church is finally to appeal unto them ...

[MoreCoffee]

Westminster Confession of Faith - Chapter 1 section 8:

The Old Testament in Hebrew (which was the native language of the people of God of old), and the New Testament in Greek (which, at the time of the writing of it, was most generally known to the nations), being immediately inspired by God, and, by his singular care and providence, kept pure in all ages, are therefore authentical; so as, in all controversies of religion, the church is finally to appeal unto them. But, because these original tongues are not known to all the people of God, who have right unto, and interest in the Scriptures, and are commanded, in the fear of God, to read and search them, therefore they are to be translated into the vulgar language of every nation unto which they come, that, the Word of God dwelling plentifully in all, they may worship him in an acceptable manner; and, through patience and comfort of the Scriptures, may have hope.​

Is this your faith?

 

[psalms 91]

Why do I get the feeling this is something other than a faith question

 

[Alithis]

Westminster Confession of Faith - Chapter 1 section 8:

The Old Testament in Hebrew (which was the native language of the people of God of old), and the New Testament in Greek (which, at the time of the writing of it, was most generally known to the nations), being immediately inspired by God, and, by his singular care and providence, kept pure in all ages, are therefore authentical; so as, in all controversies of religion, the church is finally to appeal unto them. But, because these original tongues are not known to all the people of God, who have right unto, and interest in the Scriptures, and are commanded, in the fear of God, to read and search them, therefore they are to be translated into the vulgar language of every nation unto which they come, that, the Word of God dwelling plentifully in all, they may worship him in an acceptable manner; and, through patience and comfort of the Scriptures, may have hope.​

Is this your faith?

no its not "my faith' my faith is that which i obey the lord in becaseu i beleive his word .. the above is the opinion of some one .

translated that they may worship him in an acceptable manner;...? acceptable to whom ? i know praying to statues and paying priests for prayers and blessing like they DO in the philippines is not acceptable worship to God

 

[MoreCoffee]

Why do I get the feeling this is something other than a faith question

I have no idea why you get that feeling. Care to explain why you do have that feeling?

 

[psalms 91]

Because you have started multiple threads and unless I am seeing something that is not there I get the feeling they are all leading to you again declaring the Catholic church as the only true church

 

[Josiah]

The Confession is embracing that the original Scriptures (in their original language) is the be the rule/canon/norma normans as disputes are arbitrated. It is rejecting the RCC view that self appoints self to look at the opinion of self and self declare that since self insists that self can't be wrong, ergo self is right. This is getting at the Rule of Scripture vs. Self Declares Self Infallible/Unaccountable issue. We've addressed that in several threads here. All this quote is getting at is that for 2000 years, the church (although not necessarily all denominations) have gone to the original Hebrew and Greek - not engaging in a battle of translations or embracing one TRANSLATION (such as the Latin Vulgate) as the rule rather than Scriptures. This is one reason why pastors to this day learn WELL both biblical Hebrew and Greek... they cannot be theologians otherwise (although I'D argue the internet has minimized that need, lol).

 

[MoreCoffee]

Because you have started multiple threads and unless I am seeing something that is not there I get the feeling they are all leading to you again declaring the Catholic church as the only true church

But I have never claimed that the Catholic Church is the one and only true church. I do believe that the Catholic Church is true to the gospel and to Christ and to God. Other people, groups, denominations, churches are true to the gospel and to Christ and to God in every point of faith in which they are in agreement with the gospel and Christ and God.

 

[psalms 91]

But I have never claimed that the Catholic Church is the one and only true church. I do believe that the Catholic Church is true to the gospel and to Christ and to God. Other people, groups, denominations, churches are true to the gospel and to Christ and to God in every point of faith in which they are in agreement with the gospel and Christ and God.

OK sorry but when I see multiple threads that seem to be leading the same way I wonder

 

[Alithis]

But I have never claimed that the Catholic Church is the one and only true church. I do believe that the Catholic Church is true to the gospel and to Christ and to God. Other people, groups, denominations, churches are true to the gospel and to Christ and to God in every point of faith in which they are in agreement with the gospel and Christ and God.

true to it huh? so you denounce praying to saints .? worshipping mary ? admit the position of pope is falsified ,condemn idols etc .. ? because you have to start there to be TRUE to the gospel .

yeh yeh you will rename praying to saints to asking them to pray for you ..duh the word pray mean- ask earnestly .
you will rename worship of mary to veneration.. but god see through the lie etc

i dont beleive the rcc to be at a; true to the gospel..it is as false and unrepentant and deceptive as it ever was

 

[Alithis]

OK sorry but when I see multiple threads that seem to be leading the same way I wonder

proper gander method . cults use it too.. repeat the same lie often enough and you fool the unwise into believing a lie .. look at the joke of the flat earthers lol. it was repeated so often that people who had no idea started to believe it

 

[MoreCoffee]

OK sorry but when I see multiple threads that seem to be leading the same way I wonder

Does being truthful matter and if so why make statements about what I write that are demonstrably not true?

 

[MoreCoffee]

true to it huh? so you denounce praying to saints .? worshipping mary ? admit the position of pope is falsified ,condemn idols etc .. ? because you have to start there to be TRUE to the gospel .

yeh yeh you will rename praying to saints to asking them to pray for you ..duh the word pray mean- ask earnestly .
you will rename worship of mary to veneration.. but god see through the lie etc

i dont beleive the rcc to be at a; true to the gospel..it is as false and unrepentant and deceptive as it ever was

I do not denounce prayer to the saints in heaven since to pray is to ask thus to pray to the saints is to ask the saints to pray to God about the things that I ask them to pray - if they wish to. Blessed Mary is not to be worshipped as if she were God so I denounce any worship of Blessed Mary as God or as a goddess or any such thing. I have no Idea what you mean by "admit the position of pope is falsified" since the office of pope clearly exists and cannot be falsified in that sense. I condemn idolatry and idols.

So you denounce telling lies about the Catholic Church? Then why do you persist in telling lies about the Catholic Church in your posts? You denounce calumny against Catholic Christians? Then why do your posts contain so many calumnies against them? Why are your posts - such as the one quoted above - so belligerent, pugnacious, deceitful, false? Can a man or a woman be a follower of Jesus Christ and at the same time be devoted to lies, deceit, falsehood in what they say about others who are created in God's image?

 

[psalms 91]

I do not denounce prayer to the saints in heaven since to pray is to ask thus to pray to the saints is to ask the saints to pray to God about the things that I ask them to pray - if they wish to. Blessed Mary is not to be worshipped as if she were God so I denounce any worship of Blessed Mary as God or as a goddess or any such thing. I have no Idea what you mean by "admit the position of pope is falsified" since the office of pope clearly exists and cannot be falsified in that sense. I condemn idolatry and idols.

So you denounce telling lies about the Catholic Church? Then why do you persist in telling lies about the Catholic Church in your posts? You denounce calumny against Catholic Christians? Then why do your posts contain so many calumnies against them? Why are your posts - such as the one quoted above - so belligerent, pugnacious, deceitful, false? Can a man or a woman be a follower of Jesus Christ and at the same time be devoted to lies, deceit, falsehood in what they say about others who are created in God's image?

Ah denial huh. Unfortunately it is clear that those things do exist within the church in a major way

 

[Alithis]

Ah denial huh. Unfortunately it is clear that those things do exist within the church in a major way

yup... they try to clevery reword and mask it ..
but in the philipines i observed with my own ears and eyes ...

at chrsitmas children in white robes travel the houses carrying statues of a baby jesus ... they take them into the homes ..the people bend down and kiss the statue for "good luck and blesings ' then they give coins to the children who collect the money for the priests .

i saw with my own eyes how the people went into the statue of mary in the church building and bowed down to it to pray before an idolatrous image .
i observed them bowing to many statues and kissing the feet of the statues . all this was done in the approving presence of the priests who encouraged the behaviour .

my ex catholic wife testifies of how the priests taught her directly saying .." if you want god to hear you faster you must not pray to jesus you must pray to mary because she can get your prayers to God faster .. yup thats what she was taught as a child growing up . astounding and utter lies absolute in their lie and blasphemy .

i have nothing against the person of morecoffee .. but the propagation of these lies and defense of them is utterly sinful in every respect

 

[Josiah]

my ex catholic wife testifies of how the priests taught her directly saying .." if you want god to hear you faster you must not pray to jesus you must pray to mary because she can get your prayers to God faster .. yup thats what she was taught as a child growing up . astounding and utter lies absolute in their lie and blasphemy .

From THIS ex-RCC'er.....


On this "praying to Mary" thing, MY experience is that the RC Denomination is all over the map on this - it just depends on WHICH Catholic teacher you're talking to (and probably how informed and articulate they are). SOME will say Mary can only be one praying FOR you (not really any different than your neighbor praying for you), but I think they are a minority. You can hear 10 different "takes" on this if you ask 10 different Catholic teachers....


What THIS ex-RCC'er so often heard in this context was BY FAR the RCC's fave miracle: Jesus changing water into wine. THAT was usually brought up in this context. Here's the WHOLE POINT of that, we were taught. Jesus didn't want to do it.... it probably wasn't the wisest, best thing to do. BUT, Jesus obeyed ALL the commandments - perfectly, constantly! And so He obeyed His mommie! He was submissive to His mommie! His mommie wanted Him to do this - sooooooo...... even though it probably wasn't the best...... He obeyed her. Pronto! Immediately! Fast! And Mary KNEW He would (being a good, obedient Jewish boy). And HE DID! What's the lesson? If you want Jesus to do something, ask Mary. SHE "gets it." SHE looks at things from a purely human perspective and so will emphathize with us. EVEN IF it's not really the best thing here, SHE can get it done! So......... why take the longer, harder route directly to Jesus? Go to Mary!


Now.... I'm NOT like most Protestants who hold that seeking Mary's prayers is sin or wrong or UNbibical (although I DO question the stewardship and ministerial aspects of this). On the other hand, I don't agree with the Catholic "spin" we were often taught by our Catholic teachers that somehow, SHE gets heard and obeyed via the Fourth Commandment (5th for you Calvinists and Evangelicals, lol) so that if you want your prayer heard and obeyed, go to Mary (but then not ALL Catholics do either).


IMO, I don't think we can definitively state that Mary does NOT pray for us (or even pass on our prayers).... but I equally think we cannot definitively state that she does. And I think it might be BETTER to seek the prayers, counsel, help, accountability of those who can do so (those we know HERE) but that's another issue.



Back to the issue of this thread.



- Josiah

 

[MoreCoffee]

Ah denial huh. Unfortunately it is clear that those things do exist within the church in a major way

One more lie to add the the many you've posted. meh!

 

[MoreCoffee]

I watched this video on youtube today. It's interesting.