Truth & Finction

MoreCoffee

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Truth & Fiction

The holy scriptures are affirmed by the Lord Jesus Christ to be true and Christ is himself called The Truth yet human beings reading the holy scriptures and having faith in the Lord Jesus Christ construct systems of belief that are mutually incompatible one with another on several matters - things like the sacraments, the nature of justification, the means of salvation, the nature of grace, life and death and the intermediate state, the place of the Laws of Moses, the role of the Ten Commandments and so forth. Mutual incompatibility implies that at least one and possibly all of the systems of belief are incorrect. How is one to differentiate between truth and fiction in systems of belief?
 
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psalms 91

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Real easy, is it in the bible or based on scripture? If not then you have traditions of men and error is probably present as well
 

MoreCoffee

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Real easy, is it in the bible or based on scripture? If not then you have traditions of men and error is probably present as well

You think it is easy?

Who are apostles?
 

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The holy scriptures are affirmed by the Lord Jesus Christ to be true and Christ is himself called The Truth yet human beings reading the holy scriptures and having faith in the Lord Jesus Christ construct systems of belief that are mutually incompatible one with another on several matters - things like the sacraments, the nature of justification, the means of salvation, the nature of grace, life and death and the intermediate state, the place of the Laws of Moses, the role of the Ten Commandments and so forth. Mutual incompatibility implies that at least one and possibly all of the systems of belief are incorrect. How is one to differentiate between truth and fiction in systems of belief?
sytems of belief that are mutually incompatible one with another on several matters -

ie .praying to saints worshipping mary. place a man as mediator .idolatry.. etc
 

MoreCoffee

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sytems of belief that are mutually incompatible one with another on several matters -

ie .praying to saints worshipping mary. place a man as mediator .idolatry.. etc

Yes, things like that and things like deceiving others, writing calumnies about others, being unwilling to learn the facts before condemning, being unkind while pretending to present the gospel, and so forth.
 

psalms 91

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You think it is easy?

Who are apostles?
Who do you say? I didnt say there would be agreement I said it is easy if you use scripture as your base
 

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Who do you say? I didnt say there would be agreement I said it is easy if you use scripture as your base

Use holy scripture to identify the apostles then. Let's see where it takes us.
 

psalms 91

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Your idea and mine would be different as many sects maintain a different understanding or is that what you want to see as I am sure you are knowledgeable in this area
 

Josiah

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Mutual incompatibility implies

I don't believe there is "mutually incompability" in Scripture, only at times in people's opinions.

The "problem" IMO is the West's abandonment of MYSTERY - especially in the Roman Catholic Denomination. The RCC still pronounces the word but has lost ALL concept and acceptance of it. In the words of my Greek Orthodox friend, "The Roman Church cannot shut up but INSISTS on theorizing about everything, dividing the church over it, declaring it dogma and demanding that God agree with it." "The Roman Church has lost all sense of MYSTERY."

IMO, this is a product of the enormous, Jupiter sized ego of the RC Denomination: it simply cannot consider anything other than how perfect it's own brain is, how perfect its own invented theories are.... indeed, I was specifically taught as a Catholic that God MUST agree with the new, unique dogmas of the singular RC Denomination or "God would be wrong - and that's not possible." Our Deacon said EXACTLY that. The ego of it all......


Luther said, "Humility is the foundation of theology." It's certainly essential. God is bigger than we are, smarter than we are. God never told ANY denomination to correct Him, to invent dogmas, to correct "incompatibilities." We are told to trust, rely, obey. God should get the proverbial "last word" EVEN IF (specially if?) that means we are left with a paradox, left with something we don't understand and can't explain. I think it is acceptable (at times, even good) to think..... to consider...... although I reject the uber, extreme individualism of the RC Denomination (which demands that this be limited to IT ITSELF alone, exclusively, singularly, uniquely for it itself insists that it itself is infallible, unaccountable.... that It Itself is uniquely, singualary, individually guided and taught by the HS). WE are the church...... WE were given the Scriptures..... WE are lead by the Spirit..... theology is to be done by US.... I reject the extreme, radical denominationalism/individualism of the RC Denomination (one of the reasons I left that denomination). And while it's okay to try to "wrap our brains" around something, we need to remember we are fallen, limited, mortal, sinful bloats - NOT God's equal in all things. We may not ..... we probably won't..... succeed in fully "understanding." But then WE are called to be stewards of the MYSTERIES of God! No denomination (including the RCC) and NO individual is called to be the "explainer of God" or "the inventor of dogma" Ego.... individualism.... causes SELF (such as the RCC) insisting that SELF (uniquely) is to correct God and to make God "make sense."

How else can we explain things like unique, new RC Dogmas like Transubstantiation, Purgatory, Infallibility of One RC Denomination Bishop - you know, the things that caused the two largest divides in the history of Christianity: 1054 and 1521. As my Greek Orthodox friend notes, "The Roman Church just WILL NOT leave well enough alone."


Now, I'm the first to confess that all the "children" of the RC Denomination inherited this egoism, individualism that the RC Denomination took to such an extreme.. they SHOULD have learned the horrors and dangers of that, but.... Luther stressed humility, community, accountability..... stressed mystery...... but there soon arose in Protestantism some of this egoism, this propensity to appoint self as the Genius, this propensity to insist God only leads ME, talks to ME, teaches ME, whispers in the ear of ME.... I think it IS true that the Reformation - as it developed well beyond Luther (and Lutherans) had/has an element of going full circle (SO ironic to me each "sees" this in each other but not in self). The tragedy of what the RC Denomination did so many centuries before the Reformation will - sadly - continue until we return to humility, community, accountability.... before we put an end to the uber-Roman obsession with POWER, centrality, control.... and the ego of insisting that all (including God) agree with the theories of it itself uniquely. We have a lot of work to do. In the milieu that now exists.... the MESS (that I blame almost entirely on the RC Denomination).... and with the RELATIVISM so ingrained in our society.... all the denominations taking a lesson from the RCC on self-promotion and self-protection, this is going to be hard. I keep trying to be a voice for it, while admitting it's a huge task.....



Soli DEO Gloria.



- Josiah
 
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