In Or Out?

[tango]

OK, so this is a semi-serious question with a twist.

George lives in upstate New York. He goes on vacation to France, arriving in Paris on April 14 and staying there until his return to New York on April 23.

On April 18, is George in the US or out of the US?

 

[Stravinsk]

OK, so this is a semi-serious question with a twist.

George lives in upstate New York. He goes on vacation to France, arriving in Paris on April 14 and staying there until his return to New York on April 23.

On April 18, is George in the US or out of the US?

Provided it's the same year and George is not in a US Embassy on the 18th, then he is physically outside the US.

 

[psalms 91]

outside

 

[Stravinsk]

Don't keep us in suspense Tango. What are we missing and what is the twist to what seems obvious?

 

[Josiah]

Provided it's the same year and George is not in a US Embassy on the 18th, then he is physically outside the US.

Ditto. Unless there's some "trick" here I'm not catching, LOL

 

[MoreCoffee]

US of what?

 

[psalms 91]

of A

 

[MoreCoffee]

of A

That's an assumption; tango didn't stipulate "of A" ... could be US of Europe

 

[psalms 91]

or just us?:woot:

 

[MoreCoffee]

or just us?:woot:

Yes, that is possible

 

[psalms 91]

:lol:

 

[MoreCoffee]

:lol:

My nephew saw a Wedge tailed Eagle the other day at a reptile park (a kind of zoo of local species) and said it was a very big and very impressive and beautiful bird.

 

[TurtleHare]

YER OUT!!! I was super glad this wasn't a belly button thread.

 

[psalms 91]

I love eagles

 

[MoreCoffee]

I love eagles

They are "unclean" in the old covenant

 

[psalms 91]

lol but beautiful birds

 

[MoreCoffee]

lol but beautiful birds

yes, quite magnificent but ceremonially unclean and hence unsuitable for presentation before Jehovah as sacrifices.

They are out as far as these matters are concerned. Perhaps out of US

 

[tango]

OK, rabbit trails about eagles aside...

Stravinsk picked up a couple of possible gotcha's, but those aren't what I'm thinking of. Assuming the same year and that our mysterious George (no relation to George of this board) didn't set foot in a US embassy while abroad....

The answer is that George is not outside the US. At least that's what the IRS seems to think. If you are out of the country on April 18 you get an automatic two month extension to file your taxes, but "out of the country on April 18" doesn't appear to actually have any bearing on where you happen to be on April 18. The instructions refer to your ordinary residence, thereby redefining what "out of the country" from something that's clear and making it mean something else entirely.

So if you're normally resident in the US then you can be out of the country while being considered to be in the country. If your normal residence is out of the country you are considered out of the country even if you are in the country. Of course the IRS could have simply stated "if you are ordinarily resident outside the US on April 18..." and been clear about it.

Confusing? The fun barely got started...

 

[MoreCoffee]

OK, rabbit trails about eagles aside...

Stravinsk picked up a couple of possible gotcha's, but those aren't what I'm thinking of. Assuming the same year and that our mysterious George (no relation to George of this board) didn't set foot in a US embassy while abroad....

The answer is that George is not outside the US. At least that's what the IRS seems to think. If you are out of the country on April 18 you get an automatic two month extension to file your taxes, but "out of the country on April 18" doesn't appear to actually have any bearing on where you happen to be on April 18. The instructions refer to your ordinary residence, thereby redefining what "out of the country" from something that's clear and making it mean something else entirely.

So if you're normally resident in the US then you can be out of the country while being considered to be in the country. If your normal residence is out of the country you are considered out of the country even if you are in the country. Of course the IRS could have simply stated "if you are ordinarily resident outside the US on April 18..." and been clear about it.

Confusing? The fun barely got started...

USA laws are weird when it comes to what happens in other countries - especially if one happens to be a USA citizen or permanent resident.

 

[tango]

USA laws are weird when it comes to what happens in other countries - especially if one happens to be a USA citizen or permanent resident.

It's not even about what happens in other countries, if the IRS can't even talk about people being in or out of the country without redefining a term to give it a meaning nobody in their right mind would expect it to have it's hard to expect much more clarity anywhere else.