Satanist numbers (non-theological discussion)

[Stravinsk]

Putting this here because I don't know where else it would fit - it's not meant for theological discussion, nor do I want only the answers of professing Christians. All, Christian or not, welcome to reply.

Question to follow my observation, that observation being:

I have noticed of late where I work that I have increasingly come across outright Satanists. When I say that I mean those who proclaim their allegiance/faith/whatever one calls it with very definitive jewelry, tattoos or clothing depicting the pentagram, or words in praise of Satan, Lucifer and such.

To be clear, I am not lumping the words "Satanist" or "Luciferian" with what some Christians might call some - Wiccans, people of other faiths and so on. I am also not including people wearing T-shirts of certain bands - I am only refering to those who use the well known Satanic symbols or the words in praise of Satan or Lucifer in an outward way - such as on clothing or jewelry or tattoos.

Now seeing this fairly often is sort of a new experience for me. That being said, the place I work at now is a much busier outfit than those I've worked at previously, so overall I see lots more people in the time that I am working and that might explain it.

So my question is:

What is your perception of this - do you see more people open about it than in years past? Have you lived in the same area for a long time to notice a change in the numbers? Have you looked into or do you know of statistical or census data that would back it up with real numbers?

Please refrain from speculations on end times and such. I'm not interested in theological speculation - I am really only interested in the perception of an increase in numbers and even more so, some statistical or Census data to back them up.

 

[Lamb]

Where I live now I don't see them but where I used to there weren't too many although I did encounter one or two. Could it be your area in that they see it's okay to be out about it and the others follow suit, whereas where I have lived and live now they are mostly Christian areas?

 

[Stravinsk]

Where I live now I don't see them but where I used to there weren't too many although I did encounter one or two. Could it be your area in that they see it's okay to be out about it and the others follow suit, whereas where I have lived and live now they are mostly Christian areas?

Perhaps. I don't see a lot by any means, but I do see some, and a few are regulars. Like I said, perhaps regional, perhaps just my perception based on how many people I see in a typical day. Perhaps an increase that could be measured in Census or statistical data - but I'm not aware of any that I can trust.

 

[psalms 91]

Just a ouple although I know there are morte

 

[Josiah]

Never met one, to my knowledge.

 

[popsthebuilder]

I've noticed that since atheist consider spirituality to be a big hoax anyway that they tend to lean towards the satanic side as if it is all a game. When asked or confronted some will admit it is a jest to them, while others seem to do do it for effect.
With the number of atheists climbing so too is the number of unofficial Satanists. They aren't generally practitioners of Satanism though.

2¢

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[Lamb]

I've noticed that since atheist consider spirituality to be a big hoax anyway that they tend to lean towards the satanic side as if it is all a game. When asked or confronted some will admit it is a jest to them, while others seem to do do it for effect.
With the number of atheists climbing so too is the number of unofficial Satanists. They aren't generally practitioners of Satanism though.

2¢

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

That makes sense. A lot of people enjoy being contrary only for the sole purpose...that they can I don't know how many people are actually Satanists truly out of the ones I've met or if they wanted to just join in on something.

My friend's sister once said she wanted to join a church (and a specific denomination she mentioned) because she wanted to feel as if she were part of the community. She didn't believe in God.

 

[psalms 91]

However the power is real if the person is seruious and this draws many

 

[tango]

Putting this here because I don't know where else it would fit - it's not meant for theological discussion, nor do I want only the answers of professing Christians. All, Christian or not, welcome to reply.

Question to follow my observation, that observation being:

I have noticed of late where I work that I have increasingly come across outright Satanists. When I say that I mean those who proclaim their allegiance/faith/whatever one calls it with very definitive jewelry, tattoos or clothing depicting the pentagram, or words in praise of Satan, Lucifer and such.

To be clear, I am not lumping the words "Satanist" or "Luciferian" with what some Christians might call some - Wiccans, people of other faiths and so on. I am also not including people wearing T-shirts of certain bands - I am only refering to those who use the well known Satanic symbols or the words in praise of Satan or Lucifer in an outward way - such as on clothing or jewelry or tattoos.

Now seeing this fairly often is sort of a new experience for me. That being said, the place I work at now is a much busier outfit than those I've worked at previously, so overall I see lots more people in the time that I am working and that might explain it.

So my question is:

What is your perception of this - do you see more people open about it than in years past? Have you lived in the same area for a long time to notice a change in the numbers? Have you looked into or do you know of statistical or census data that would back it up with real numbers?

Please refrain from speculations on end times and such. I'm not interested in theological speculation - I am really only interested in the perception of an increase in numbers and even more so, some statistical or Census data to back them up.

I don't think it's useful to assume someone wearing a pentagram is a satanist, any more than it's useful to assume someone wearing a cross is a Christian.

Firstly a few groups use pentagrams (and depending on which group, some see a significant difference depending on whether the star points up or down), and not everyone who wears a pentagram is a satanist. When I was involved in the occult I often wore a pentagram on a necklace and although I'd have called myself a sorceror I wouldn't have called myself a satanist. I stopped wearing the pentagram in the late 90s, simply because I no longer felt the need to outwardly and openly identify as an occultist.

Even more overt symbols (inverted crosses etc) may be worn for shock value rather than any religious significance. Throw in a few of the more satanic bands who make frequent usage of pentagrams and the like in their imagery and it's not difficult to see why their fans might use pentagrams themselves, purely to show allegiance to the band.

And to throw in another factor, the pentagram is a curious geometric shape. I remember fiddling with doodles of pentagrams even when I had no interest in the occult simply because they were cool looking from a geometric perspective. There were all sorts of shapes I liked at the time and I just liked to doodle. I only started doodling those particular shapes because I saw someone with a heptagram (I never did figure out what it was supposed to mean) drawn in a way unlike anything I'd seen before, and it piqued my interest. So from there it was just a question of trying to remember just what it looked like, and morphing it a little.

 

[Stravinsk]

I don't think it's useful to assume someone wearing a pentagram is a satanist, any more than it's useful to assume someone wearing a cross is a Christian.

Firstly a few groups use pentagrams (and depending on which group, some see a significant difference depending on whether the star points up or down), and not everyone who wears a pentagram is a satanist. When I was involved in the occult I often wore a pentagram on a necklace and although I'd have called myself a sorceror I wouldn't have called myself a satanist. I stopped wearing the pentagram in the late 90s, simply because I no longer felt the need to outwardly and openly identify as an occultist.

Even more overt symbols (inverted crosses etc) may be worn for shock value rather than any religious significance. Throw in a few of the more satanic bands who make frequent usage of pentagrams and the like in their imagery and it's not difficult to see why their fans might use pentagrams themselves, purely to show allegiance to the band.

And to throw in another factor, the pentagram is a curious geometric shape. I remember fiddling with doodles of pentagrams even when I had no interest in the occult simply because they were cool looking from a geometric perspective. There were all sorts of shapes I liked at the time and I just liked to doodle. I only started doodling those particular shapes because I saw someone with a heptagram (I never did figure out what it was supposed to mean) drawn in a way unlike anything I'd seen before, and it piqued my interest. So from there it was just a question of trying to remember just what it looked like, and morphing it a little.

The people I see wearing or bearing the Pentagram do not also have other geometric shapes as a tattoo or worn piece of jewelry. It is usually just that.

While what you are saying regarding non-exclusiveness is true from a historical perspective (a few ancient religions have used this symbol to represent their faith), and the fact that it was not always associated with Satan - that is not true today, at least not in western society. Not to discount there may be some followers of ancient religious systems around today, one cannot get past that the symbol is used predominately in Satanism and is even adopted by the "official" "Church of Satan".

When I made my OP, I didn't mean to only use the symbol as an indicator. Some people have it on clothing together with the name "Lucifer" and some have some sort of worded praise of Satan or Lucifer either in conjunction with it or as a stand alone.

As for the symbol itself, I do not see anything evil in it, only insofar as it is given meaning to represent evil (such as being an inverse of the pentacle, which has been given meaning).

I don't know about you, but most people choose jewelry or tattoos based on some perceived meaning, not simply on interesting geometry.

 

[tango]

The people I see wearing or bearing the Pentagram do not also have other geometric shapes as a tattoo or worn piece of jewelry. It is usually just that.

Sure, when I wore a pentagram it was the only piece of "jewelry" I wore aside from a watch. I use the term "jewelry" loosely since it was a pewter thing on a leather choker, that being all I could afford at the time.

While what you are saying regarding non-exclusiveness is true from a historical perspective (a few ancient religions have used this symbol to represent their faith), and the fact that it was not always associated with Satan - that is not true today, at least not in western society. Not to discount there may be some followers of ancient religious systems around today, one cannot get past that the symbol is used predominately in Satanism and is even adopted by the "official" "Church of Satan".

I know of it being used in occult circles, I wouldn't specifically associate the star alone with satanism.

When I made my OP, I didn't mean to only use the symbol as an indicator. Some people have it on clothing together with the name "Lucifer" and some have some sort of worded praise of Satan or Lucifer either in conjunction with it or as a stand alone.

Putting those things together becomes a lot more significant than someone wearing a pretty star. I haven't personally seen anyone doing that but there's obviously a lot of the world I haven't personally seen

As for the symbol itself, I do not see anything evil in it, only insofar as it is given meaning to represent evil (such as being an inverse of the pentacle, which has been given meaning).

Agreed up to a point. I wouldn't say a pretty star is inherently good or evil but I'd be cautious about the potential to trivialise occultic imagery to the point people don't regard seeing them being used as something potentially dangerous.

I don't know about you, but most people choose jewelry or tattoos based on some perceived meaning, not simply on interesting geometry.

Tattoos do seem to be specifically personal, depending on the nature of jewelry it could be a perceived meaning or personal significance, or it could be shock value. If you can get a pewter pentagram on a leather choker for $5 you can "make a statement" without actually saying anything more than "I want to shock people". Like I mentioned earlier, I got to a point where I didn't feel a need to overtly self-identify as an occultist so stopped wearing my pentagram. I never did figure out what happened to it, I don't recall ever getting rid of it but when I turned away from the occult and destroyed everything I had that was related I wanted to throw it out but couldn't find it anywhere.