Why do some Protestants put on rock concerts?

[tango]

Yeah, it does. When Spirit-filled and Spirit-led worship leaders are doing what they've been called to do, Holy Spirit comes.

That implies that the band members are Spirit-filled and Spirit-led, which would be the source of at least some disagreement. You also didn't differentiate between "they are anointed" and "I like them".

 

[Full O Beans]

That implies that the band members are Spirit-filled and Spirit-led, which would be the source of at least some disagreement. You also didn't differentiate between "they are anointed" and "I like them".

Holy Spirit in me attests to what is of Him and what isn't. He is dependable. Jesus Culture music (from Redding, California) is anointed.

 

[Alithis]

Some pop concerts border on the absurd, consider this video taken from a charismatic/pentecostal/new-apostolic meeting.

hmm not exactly doing a rock concert.. i don't think rock concert fans would like being referred to as people who do the hokie pokie haha .

i might say ... only in the west .. yiyiyii .

however it is interesting to observe testimony and how "faith" is not hindered by "cultural setting .. and that is a whole other cultural setting haha ..yet still- folk got healed .. interesting

 

[Alithis]

I don't think musical styles have anything to do with anything.

im inclined to agree , however "styles" can reflect that which is behind a thing ..

a mask over profane face is only effective until the profane one speaks .. (thats not at any one its just a "quip" to display a point .

 

[Alithis]

If someone does not like a particular expression of music, one does not have to listen. We can still exercise free will. Some people like organ music. I don't. But if I go to a church and they use organ music, I am not going to complain about it. There are different styles of music. Some styles I like, some I can barely stand to listen to. But just because I don't like it, it does not mean that our Father does not love it. He made us all different for a reason. I don't like rap music, but sometimes my son will insist (while laughing at me) that I hear certain songs. I have to admit, there are strong messages in some rap songs. I just don't care for the style.

there is i find a double standard on the topic quite often .
what i mean by that , is .. we often speak and share and preach about the kingdom of heaven on earth (rightfully) and about the furtherance of the kingdom etc
and if our lives in every respect are reflecting the nature of our heavenly Father in all his glorious attributes of holiness righteousness Joy goodness kindness peace .. etc .. aso known as the "fruits "of the Holy Spirit.
but often when it comes to music styles ... (Note : especially where they mimic the spirit of THIS world ) then we see that double standard fully manifest .

so i have to ask myself ..what need has the holy Spirit of the lord to "copy " the worlds way of music ? and of course i come up with the answer-NONE ..no need at all .the music of heaven transcends
anything this temporal mortal globe can come up with . true real music originates from heaven heaven has no need of worldly(devilish) inspirations ... anything this world has dredged up is the mutilated twisted manipulative version of music .it in no way reflects the holiness of the most High God .

the scriptures says we are to worship him in the beauty of his HOLINESS ...

why some congregations think that God requires darkened rooms coloured lights and surround sound effect i do not know .. he does a far better Job with in upper room and seeking hearts in the morning (ref -acts ) .

...
now speaking in opinions i say - enough with this copy cat rubbish ... throw the windows open turn the lights on and get into the light -we are children of the light -get used to the bright people .. GOD IS LIGHT .. you're not going to find any comfy darkened rooms in heaven .

 

[tango]

Holy Spirit in me attests to what is of Him and what isn't. He is dependable. Jesus Culture music (from Redding, California) is anointed.

That kind of argument really doesn't stand up to any kind of testing. What you're essentially saying is that whatever you consider to be true is true, and therefore by implication anything that contradicts what you believe must be false.

Can you explain, without using the word "anointed", why you like Jesus Culture? Honestly, when I've heard their music I get the same sensation I get when I inadvertently stray into the occult/new age section of a bookshop. So if you're willing to base a belief on what's fundamentally no more than inner feelings you're saying they are good and I'm saying they are not good. So we could really do with a more objective standard we could use as a gauge. Unless you want to turn the whole "anointed" matter into a less spiritual-sounding concept where you say you like them and I say I don't like them.

Bethel in general is even worse. I managed to last through 10 minutes of one of their "worship" videos before I just couldn't take any more and walked out. It's curious that something going on in a church disturbed me to the point I walked out and, in this particular situation, it was the last straw and I haven't been back to that church since.

 

[Full O Beans]

That kind of argument really doesn't stand up to any kind of testing. What you're essentially saying is that whatever you consider to be true is true, and therefore by implication anything that contradicts what you believe must be false.

Can you explain, without using the word "anointed", why you like Jesus Culture? Honestly, when I've heard their music I get the same sensation I get when I inadvertently stray into the occult/new age section of a bookshop. So if you're willing to base a belief on what's fundamentally no more than inner feelings you're saying they are good and I'm saying they are not good. So we could really do with a more objective standard we could use as a gauge. Unless you want to turn the whole "anointed" matter into a less spiritual-sounding concept where you say you like them and I say I don't like them.

Bethel in general is even worse. I managed to last through 10 minutes of one of their "worship" videos before I just couldn't take any more and walked out. It's curious that something going on in a church disturbed me to the point I walked out and, in this particular situation, it was the last straw and I haven't been back to that church since.

No, what I am saying is that Holy Spirit gives us discernment. It is godly wisdom to use it. He reveals to me and millions of other believers that He is right smack dab in the middle of the ministry of worship in the churches where Jesus Culture began and where they now minister.

 

[tango]

No, what I am saying is that Holy Spirit gives us discernment. It is godly wisdom to use it. He reveals to me and millions of other believers that He is right smack dab in the middle of the ministry of worship in the churches where Jesus Culture began and where they now minister.

So what is he saying to me when their music causes me such concern that I'll literally walk out during a church service and not go back in until they are done? Either we need an objective standard or you're right back to "he said, she said" which isn't much of a basis for Godly wisdom.

 

[Brighten04]

there is i find a double standard on the topic quite often .
what i mean by that , is .. we often speak and share and preach about the kingdom of heaven on earth (rightfully) and about the furtherance of the kingdom etc
and if our lives in every respect are reflecting the nature of our heavenly Father in all his glorious attributes of holiness righteousness Joy goodness kindness peace .. etc .. aso known as the "fruits "of the Holy Spirit.
but often when it comes to music styles ... (Note : especially where they mimic the spirit of THIS world ) then we see that double standard fully manifest .

so i have to ask myself ..what need has the holy Spirit of the lord to "copy " the worlds way of music ? and of course i come up with the answer-NONE ..no need at all .the music of heaven transcends
anything this temporal mortal globe can come up with . true real music originates from heaven heaven has no need of worldly(devilish) inspirations ... anything this world has dredged up is the mutilated twisted manipulative version of music .it in no way reflects the holiness of the most High God .

the scriptures says we are to worship him in the beauty of his HOLINESS ...

why some congregations think that God requires darkened rooms coloured lights and surround sound effect i do not know .. he does a far better Job with in upper room and seeking hearts in the morning (ref -acts ) .

...
now speaking in opinions i say - enough with this copy cat rubbish ... throw the windows open turn the lights on and get into the light -we are children of the light -get used to the bright people .. GOD IS LIGHT .. you're not going to find any comfy darkened rooms in heaven .

There is an old saying that says beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I guess we could modify that to say beautiful music is in the ear of the listener. There are musical styles I cannot and do not listen to. But, I cannot say I know what is "Heavenly" music sounds like. Some say it is opera. I don't like to listen to opera even though my music teachers crammed it down my throat. But who decides which style is heavenly? Who decides what is rubbish? I believe Our Father is the giver of music and it is the world that has copied. I have never seen scripture that says our Father hates any kind of music. IMHO let the listener decide.

 

[Full O Beans]

So what is he saying to me when their music causes me such concern that I'll literally walk out during a church service and not go back in until they are done? Either we need an objective standard or you're right back to "he said, she said" which isn't much of a basis for Godly wisdom.

We have a God standard. If it isn't to your taste, then so be it. But it is from God and to God, and in true worship, His presence comes. We cannot judge that lest we miss out on His blessing.

This reminds me of David's wife Michal who scoffed at her husband's anointed exuberance before the Lord. God shut her womb for it. Does God change?

 

[Lamb]

David's exuberance wasn't within the temple but out on the streets.

 

[psalms 91]

David's exuberance wasn't within the temple but out on the streets.

The point of that wasnt wjhere so much as what happened, a warning of coming aginst the annointing of God I think

 

[Brighten04]

David's exuberance wasn't within the temple but out on the streets.

Does it matter where we worship the Lord with exuberance?

 

[Full O Beans]

David's exuberance wasn't within the temple but out on the streets.

It matters not where we offer praise and worship to our God.

The point is that God detests human disdain on what belongs to Him that others are bringing to Him.

 

[tango]

We have a God standard. If it isn't to your taste, then so be it. But it is from God and to God, and in true worship, His presence comes. We cannot judge that lest we miss out on His blessing.

This reminds me of David's wife Michal who scoffed at her husband's anointed exuberance before the Lord. God shut her womb for it. Does God change?

But we're not talking about whether it's to my taste or not. If we're talking about whether you like it or I like it then there's no problem with a disagreement. But if you want to make a blanket claim like "they are anointed" then you need to be able to support your claim against the counterclaim "they are not anointed". Your comment about "it is from God and to God" is just another assertion with nothing to back it, and things asserted without evidence are just as easily dismissed without evidence. So you're just presenting an opinion as if it were irrefutable fact, throwing in a few spiritual-sounding comments in an apparent attempt to make it so.

David and his wife have nothing to do with it, unless you can show the clear link. If you want to pull examples out of the Bible you need to demonstrate the link, otherwise you could use David's example to justify all sorts of weird behavior and pull dire warnings out of context in an attempt to stifle dissent.

So it looks like your "they are anointed" claim is little more than a personal opinion presented as if it were fact. You can talk of having "a God standard" but unless you can demonstrate how to apply it and how to deal with disagreements over how to apply it (as in this case, where you consider Jesus Culture to be "anointed" and I find them sufficiently disturbing to walk out during a church service) it's just a lot of words that mean nothing. If you believe Jesus Culture to be "anointed" and I am so badly disturbed by them it's fair to say that we can't both be right. So we go back to looking for an objective standard to measure against.

 

[Full O Beans]

It's only personal opinion that states that certain worship leaders, musicians and composers are not anointed.

But when one experiences the presence of God and His particular blessing in one's life through the worship that comes through His use of these saints, it is called "anointed", lifted by the power of the Holy Spirit into His presence.

 

[tango]

It's only personal opinion that states that certain worship leaders, musicians and composers are not anointed.

But when one experiences the presence of God and His particular blessing in one's life through the worship that comes through His use of these saints, it is called "anointed", lifted by the power of the Holy Spirit into His presence.

If being anointed or not is a matter of opinion then it would appear that a musician can be anointed and not anointed at the same time. How do you believe that works?

It's very easy to throw around spiritual-sounding terms like "anointed" in a way that strips them of any meaning at all. Perhaps you could explain your second line in layman's terms, without using the word "anointed" at all. I'm particularly keen to know how you would describe "experiencing the presence of God" and how you would differentiate experiencing God's presence from experiencing a sense of euphoria as would be expected after any time of listening to a lot of music you enjoy.

 

[psalms 91]

If you dont recognize annointed then you also will not understand any words for it spiritual and not fleshly therefore either you experience it or you dont

 

[tango]

If you dont recognize annointed then you also will not understand any words for it spiritual and not fleshly therefore either you experience it or you dont

That's a very convenient cop-out Bill, it says little more than "I'm spiritual, I understand, and you're not spiritual so can't be expected to understand".

If we are to "test all things", how can we test vague claims of "anointing" that apparently can't be backed by anything objective? If all we have to go on is, to quote word-for-word what Full O Beans said earlier, "...Holy Spirit gives us discernment. It is godly wisdom to use it. He reveals to me and millions of other believers that ..." you still hit a block when some believers say one thing and others say the exact opposite. It can't be the Holy Spirit saying conflicting things to different people, so you need a way to resolve the deadlock. It just doesn't work to fall back on vague dodges like this because I could use the exact same argument to point out that I am right and others are wrong. And, as a rule, any time one argument supports two diametrically opposing views you can be sure it has little to no merit.

 

[psalms 91]

That's a very convenient cop-out Bill, it says little more than "I'm spiritual, I understand, and you're not spiritual so can't be expected to understand".

If we are to "test all things", how can we test vague claims of "anointing" that apparently can't be backed by anything objective? If all we have to go on is, to quote word-for-word what Full O Beans said earlier, "...Holy Spirit gives us discernment. It is godly wisdom to use it. He reveals to me and millions of other believers that ..." you still hit a block when some believers say one thing and others say the exact opposite. It can't be the Holy Spirit saying conflicting things to different people, so you need a way to resolve the deadlock. It just doesn't work to fall back on vague dodges like this because I could use the exact same argument to point out that I am right and others are wrong. And, as a rule, any time one argument supports two diametrically opposing views you can be sure it has little to no merit.

Sorry, but true. If you want to experience it then open youself up to it and seek it, if you are honest with it you will find it.