Saved by hope ...

[MoreCoffee]

For I consider that the sufferings of the present time do not amount to anything in comparison with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the creation is waiting with eager expectation for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but through the one who subjected it, on the basis of hope that the creation itself will also be set free from enslavement to corruption and have the glorious freedom of the children of God. For we know that all creation is groaning together and is in pain together until now. Not only that, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits, namely, the Spirit, we ourselves groan within while we are earnestly waiting for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies by ransom. For we must be content to hope that we shall be saved; because hope that is seen is not hope - when a man sees a thing, does he hope for it? But if we hope for what we do not see, we keep eagerly waiting for it with endurance. (Romans 8:18-25)

Hope and faith lead to salvation yet one ought not account one's self saved until God himself declares it is so in your hearing because the promises - as true and faithful as they without any doubt are they are only known to be true in one's own case when they are infallibly declared to be so by God who is our Lord and our final judge.

 

[psalms 91]

For I consider that the sufferings of the present time do not amount to anything in comparison with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the creation is waiting with eager expectation for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but through the one who subjected it, on the basis of hope that the creation itself will also be set free from enslavement to corruption and have the glorious freedom of the children of God. For we know that all creation is groaning together and is in pain together until now. Not only that, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits, namely, the Spirit, we ourselves groan within while we are earnestly waiting for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies by ransom. For we must be content to hope that we shall be saved; because hope that is seen is not hope - when a man sees a thing, does he hope for it? But if we hope for what we do not see, we keep eagerly waiting for it with endurance. (Romans 8:18-25)

Hope and faith lead to salvation yet one ought not account one's self saved until God himself declares it is so in your hearing because the promises - as true and faithful as they without any doubt are they are only known to be true in one's own case when they are infallibly declared to be so by God who is our Lord and our final judge.

Yes, and Romans 10:9-10 tells us what we muct do to be saved we can rest in our salvation by the wrod of God

 

[MoreCoffee]

Yes, and Romans 10:9-10 tells us what we must do to be saved we can rest in our salvation by the word of God

Rest in Christ, yes, yet not cease from doing good. The faithful are not called to a life of indolence or to sleep in their beds while the needy and hungry go uncared for.

"When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left. Then the King will say to those at his right hand, 'Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.' Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink? And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee? And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?' And the King will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.' Then he will say to those at his left hand, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' Then they also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?' Then he will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.' And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
(Matthew 25:31-46)

 

[psalms 91]

Rest in Christ, yes, yet not cease from doing good. The faithful are not called to a life of indolence or to sleep in their beds while the needy and hungry go uncared for.

"When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left. Then the King will say to those at his right hand, 'Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.' Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink? And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee? And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?' And the King will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.' Then he will say to those at his left hand, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' Then they also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?' Then he will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.' And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
(Matthew 25:31-46)

Totally agree

 

[Brighten04]

Hope and faith lead to salvation yet one ought not account one's self saved until God himself declares it is so in your hearing because the promises - as true and faithful as they without any doubt are they are only known to be true in one's own case when they are infallibly declared to be so by God who is our Lord and our final judge.

.

People just need to read their Bibles. You might not account yourself saved, but I am saved, I am sanctified and I am filled with the Holy Ghost.

Psalm 107:2
Let the redeemed of the Lord say so, whom he hath redeemed from the hand of the enemy;

How can you call yourself a Christian if you don't know that you are saved. Our Father gives you His Holy Spirit to indwell you, to lead you, to talk with you ,to walk with you. He is not going to give His Holy Spirit to someone who is not saved.. You are not saved by your good works, but we re saved unto good works.

Ephesians 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise,

We are in Christ. We are part of His Body.

1 Corinthians 12:27
Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

What you are describing is a works salvation.

 

[Josiah]

Since I believe that Jesus is the Savior, thus I believe that Jesus saves.

Ergo, I believe that we are justified by what JESUS does: HIS works, HIS righteousness, HIS suffering. If it was mine then I'd be the Savior but that job is taken already (long before I was even born).

Now..... MY works, MY suffering, MY love, MY serving.... that all plays a role in sanctification.... perhaps even in the enriching of my faith. But I don't believe that at any point does SELF usurp Jesus, stealing the role of Savior from Him, making HIM irrelevant and His blood worthless and His resurrection meaningless. Jesus IS the Savior - always. Only. Never me. Never you. Not a bit. Not at all. Now now. Not ever.



A blessed Lenten season to all...


- Josiah

 

[MoreCoffee]

God's promises do not apply to all who (proudly) say that they apply to them.

 

[psalms 91]

How very true

 

[MoreCoffee]

How very true

We agree on some matters. Let God be praised.

 

[Brighten04]

God's promises do not apply to all who (proudly) say that they apply to them.

So who do God's promises apply to?

 

[MoreCoffee]

So who do God's promises apply to?

To the faithful. To those who live a life of faith and do the good works that were created for them to do. (Ephesians 2:10)

 

[Brighten04]

To the faithful. To those who live a life of faith and do the good works that were created for them to do. (Ephesians 2:10)

Who are the faithful?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Who are the faithful?

I would think it is obvious; faithful Christians and specifically Christians who have faith and live their life consistently with the faith that they hold.

 

[Josiah]

I would think it is obvious; faithful Christians and specifically Christians who have faith and live their life consistently with the faith that they hold.

so no one is faithful.

 

[MoreCoffee]

so no one is faithful.

Pfffft

 

[Brighten04]

I would think it is obvious; faithful Christians and specifically Christians who have faith and live their life consistently with the faith that they hold.

So why even did you write this?

God's promises do not apply to all who (proudly) say that they apply to them.

I don't hear non-Christians saying the promises proudly. And even sinners have promises from God. What you wrote makes God a respecter of persons which scripture says He is not. So either scripture is right and you are wrong or you are wrong and scripture is right.

 

[Josiah]

Pfffft

If you have nothing to contribute, it's probably best not to contribute.

YOU stated that "faithful" is "those specific Christians who have faith and live their lives consistently with the faith that they hold." I then stated that, from that perspective, no one is faithful. You chose to flame me instead of respond and defend your pov.

Christians hold that we must be perfect in the same way as God is (Matthew 5:48), that we must love exactly as Christ loved us on the Cross, that we are holy as God is holy. I don't know of anyone who lives consistently with that. Could you list for us all the names of those among us who are morally PERFECT, who are HOLY just as God is, who LOVE all exactly as Christ loved us as He bleed on the Cross?

 

[MoreCoffee]

If you have nothing to contribute, it's probably best not to contribute.

I started this thread. It is about a passage in Romans 8.

 

[psalms 91]

yup