Fire a preacher

[Brighten04]

Do you fire a preacher because he is rich? Why?

 

[tango]

Do you fire a preacher because he is rich? Why?

I think a lot would depend on circumstances. Not least how you define "rich"

If someone used to be a hedge fund manager and decided to become a preacher I'd expect them to be wealthy. If someone left school and became a preacher and became very rich while preaching I'd wonder what they were doing, specifically if they were helping themselves to the collection or something. On the other hand if someone is a pastor at a large church and the members are very generous towards him then he'll end up in a state that some people would consider rich.

If the idea of firing a pastor because he was rich actually turned out to mean "he's got more than I've got and that shouldn't be allowed" then I'd say the person bringing the claim needs to be less envious.

 

[Brighten04]

I think a lot would depend on circumstances. Not least how you define "rich"

If someone used to be a hedge fund manager and decided to become a preacher I'd expect them to be wealthy. If someone left school and became a preacher and became very rich while preaching I'd wonder what they were doing, specifically if they were helping themselves to the collection or something. On the other hand if someone is a pastor at a large church and the members are very generous towards him then he'll end up in a state that some people would consider rich.

If the idea of firing a pastor because he was rich actually turned out to mean "he's got more than I've got and that shouldn't be allowed" then I'd say the person bringing the claim needs to be less envious.

Some preachers make money by writing books.

 

[tango]

Some preachers make money by writing books.

Sure, I'd say then it would depend on when they were writing the books.

If they were paid full-time church ministers then anything they wrote "on the clock" so to speak arguably belongs to the church rather than to them. If they wrote the books in their own time then good luck to them. That said when the books are spiritual in nature (which would apply to most books written by ministers) I sometimes struggle with a conflict between a sense that if people will pay for the books then good luck to the author, and a sense that we didn't pay anything to receive Christ so shouldn't charge anything to pass it on to others. "Freely you received, freely give" seems like it might apply to that situation.

 

[Brighten04]

Sure, I'd say then it would depend on when they were writing the books.

If they were paid full-time church ministers then anything they wrote "on the clock" so to speak arguably belongs to the church rather than to them. If they wrote the books in their own time then good luck to them. That said when the books are spiritual in nature (which would apply to most books written by ministers) I sometimes struggle with a conflict between a sense that if people will pay for the books then good luck to the author, and a sense that we didn't pay anything to receive Christ so shouldn't charge anything to pass it on to others. "Freely you received, freely give" seems like it might apply to that situation.

Jesus in the freely you received freely give passage did tell them that the laborer is worthy of his hire and to take whatever is given to them. So I believe Jesus Himself endorsed paying the preacher for his labor.

 

[Alithis]

Jesus in the freely you received freely give passage did tell them that the laborer is worthy of his hire and to take whatever is given to them. So I believe Jesus Himself endorsed paying the preacher for his labor.

he did indeed sy freely you've received freely give and the apostles did preach they are worthy of thier pay .. but we turned that into" worthy of thier ongoing salary as a full time employment for teaching us to sit in church on sundays and give more money (yes thats a dig at CERTAIN types lol ) -

 

[Lamb]

A preacher who does not know that God blesses us SO WE CAN BLESS OTHERS needs to be questioned. Genesis 12

If he remains greedy then perhaps being fired is best for the congregation. I have always felt uncomfortable with people "getting rich" off selling Jesus. Making a living to survive with the congregation paying a decent and reasonable wage is not the same thing.

 

[Brighten04]

A preacher who does not know that God blesses us SO WE CAN BLESS OTHERS needs to be questioned. Genesis 12

If he remains greedy then perhaps being fired is best for the congregation. I have always felt uncomfortable with people "getting rich" off selling Jesus. Making a living to survive with the congregation paying a decent and reasonable wage is not the same thing.

I have always felt that people have the right to earn money., including preachers. Some people are just more enterprising than others, and the others condemn the enterprising ones. So the preacher who writes and sells books is enterprising. But people think they should give their work away. Some preachers do "bless others" and give some of their work away. But people want to take away their salvation almost if they drive a nice car or have a nice house. Never mind that He is feeding the flock the Word of God.

 

[Brighten04]

he did indeed sy freely you've received freely give and the apostles did preach they are worthy of thier pay .. but we turned that into" worthy of thier ongoing salary as a full time employment for teaching us to sit in church on sundays and give more money (yes thats a dig at CERTAIN types lol ) -

If you were the Pastor of a church, wouldn't you expect an ongoing salary?

 

[psalms 91]

I dont think salary is the question so much as millions which some do make. I wonder those who make that kind of money what they dio with it?

 

[Josiah]

Do you fire a preacher because he is rich? Why?

No.

Being rich (as virtually all Americans are) is not a sin. And it's not heresy.

 

[Brighten04]

I dont think salary is the question so much as millions which some do make. I wonder those who make that kind of money what they dio with it?

See, your wondering about what they do with their money sounds like nosiness. :rotfl: It is their money. They can do whatever they want to do with it. I am just asking to show my point here brother. What do you do with the money you make? See!

 

[Brighten04]

No.

Being rich (as virtually all Americans are) is not a sin. And it's not heresy.

AMEN! Folks act like everyone except preachers have the right to be rich and prosperous.

 

[psalms 91]

See, your wondering about what they do with their money sounds like nosiness. :rotfl: It is their money. They can do whatever they want to do with it. I am just asking to show my point here brother. What do you do with the money you make? See!

I tihe and pay bills mostly my point is that being rich is not a sin but it can be if you are selfish and hoarding it or spending most of it on yourself rather than helping the kingdom and thepeople in it.

 

[Brighten04]

I tihe and pay bills mostly my point is that being rich is not a sin but it can be if you are selfish and hoarding it or spending most of it on yourself rather than helping the kingdom and thepeople in it.

I know what you are saying, but back to you. If you had millions of dollars would you like it if people were trying to tell you what to do with your own money, or saying that you should not have it, or even wondering what you are doing with it? If you had millions of dollars would you live in a 1200 sq. ft. house and drive a jalopy? Or, would you spend some on yourself, buy a beautiful house, a nice car and wear quality clothing? I would if I had it. And I am being honest. I would give, yes. But I would not let other people's opinion dictate where I give. Preachers who are rich do ministry all over the world. I have seen where some go over seas and build houses, and orphanages, and feed quality food to the hungry and uplift whole villages, build greenhouses for growing fresh vegetables and dig wells for fresh water.But they choose where they go. They choose where they give. Is this so bad that they chose one village over another?

 

[Josiah]

Truth is, nearly ALL Americans spend at least 90% of the money they have (after taxes).... many spend over 100% of that money! It doesn't matter if they make $30,000 per year (which makes them very RICH by world and historic standards) or $250,000 per year. Nearly all of them are spending 90-110% of their annual income after taxes. IF some want to condemn a pastor for spending 90% of the money he has - then I think they need to look in the mirror. Oh, Lent would be such a good time for such HONESTY, such self-evaluation, for realizing that when we point one finger at another we're likely pointing three back at ourselves, for remember Jesus' "log/speck" point.

Now..... if the pastor is not contributing to the church (maybe even not tithing) or is being a bad steward of his finances (perhaps going bankrupt) then I think some CARE and HELP is called for. But then lots and lots and lots of Christians aren't good managers of their money (one finger - three fingers! Log/speck!). Such a man needs HELP, not firing.



Sorry.


- Josiah

 

[Brighten04]

Truth is, nearly ALL Americans spend at least 90% of the money they have (after taxes).... many spend over 100% of that money! It doesn't matter if they make $30,000 per year (which makes them very RICH by world and historic standards) or $250,000 per year. Nearly all of them are spending 90-110% of their annual income after taxes. IF some want to condemn a pastor for spending 90% of the money he has - then I think they need to look in the mirror. Oh, Lent would be such a good time for such HONESTY, such self-evaluation, for realizing that when we point one finger at another we're likely pointing three back at ourselves, for remember Jesus' "log/speck" point.

Now..... if the pastor is not contributing to the church (maybe even not tithing) or is being a bad steward of his finances (perhaps going bankrupt) then I think some CARE and HELP is called for. But then lots and lots and lots of Christians aren't good managers of their money (one finger - three fingers! Log/speck!). Such a man needs HELP, not firing.



Sorry.


- Josiah

a

Agreed! And if they are stealing from the church treasury they may need firing.Some ministers who pastor churches have ministries separate from the church they pastor. IMHO this is acceptable because people cannot lay the charge of stealing from the church at their feet.

 

[Lamb]

I tihe and pay bills mostly my point is that being rich is not a sin but it can be if you are selfish and hoarding it or spending most of it on yourself rather than helping the kingdom and thepeople in it.

You got it! That's what God intends...for us to love our neighbor by being a blessing to them instead of saying OH Goodie, look at all this prosperity God has given me and then neglecting your neighbor. Does a pastor NEED a million dollar mansion while the people giving him money can barely pay their bills? Something is wrong with that picture and it's a man missing what Genesis 12 states.

 

[psalms 91]

I know what you are saying, but back to you. If you had millions of dollars would you like it if people were trying to tell you what to do with your own money, or saying that you should not have it, or even wondering what you are doing with it? If you had millions of dollars would you live in a 1200 sq. ft. house and drive a jalopy? Or, would you spend some on yourself, buy a beautiful house, a nice car and wear quality clothing? I would if I had it. And I am being honest. I would give, yes. But I would not let other people's opinion dictate where I give. Preachers who are rich do ministry all over the world. I have seen where some go over seas and build houses, and orphanages, and feed quality food to the hungry and uplift whole villages, build greenhouses for growing fresh vegetables and dig wells for fresh water.But they choose where they go. They choose where they give. Is this so bad that they chose one village over another?

As long as it is being used for the kingdom, I am not nosy and need to know every detail and if I look at their lifestyle I will get a lot of my answers. I would have a nice house and drive a newer car and probably some other things but a large chunk would go to ministry and helping people

 

[Brighten04]

You got it! That's what God intends...for us to love our neighbor by being a blessing to them instead of saying OH Goodie, look at all this prosperity God has given me and then neglecting your neighbor. Does a pastor NEED a million dollar mansion while the people giving him money can barely pay their bills? Something is wrong with that picture and it's a man missing what Genesis 12 states.

i

Lam, no nobody NEEDS a million dollar house. But if you had the money and could afford it, and you desire it why not? There is no sin in it, especially if you are using your prosperity to advance the Kingdom of God.And you do not know what anyone is doing for the poor. Jesus told us to not let the left hand know what the right hand is doing when you give alms.