For Those Who Have Not Been Healed

[psalms 91]

My Dad has diabetes. Does that mean he's not saved? Does it mean his church ergo is not Christian? That he doesn't pray (or God doesn't hear his prayers)?

My grandfather had a heart attack and died. Does that mean he wasn't saved? Does it mean his church ergo was not Christian? That he didn't pray (or God didn't hear them)?

Is one ONLY saved if one is healed of all medical problems (and thus never dies)?


???

Or is it that things in this life interfere with healing? Is it making bad choices about what we eat rather than God doesnt heal? Does sin affect our lives of course it does and we all sin. Twist it any way you wish but healing is in the bible and no matter how you wish to portray God as withiholding what we need as a bad Father would do He doesnt

 

[Josiah]

Or is it that things in this life interfere with healing? Is it making bad choices about what we eat rather than God doesnt heal? Does sin affect our lives of course it does and we all sin. Twist it any way you wish but healing is in the bible and no matter how you wish to portray God as withiholding what we need as a bad Father would do He doesnt

My dad has type 1 diabetes. He was diagnosed when he was a preschooler. It had nothing to do with what he ate (the cause of Type One Diabetes is entirely unknown). He has not been healed in 64 years. Is this because he is not a Christian or his church is not Christian or God doesn't hear his prayer (or those of any praying for him)? Because he has diabetes, is God being a bad Father?

?????



.

 

[tango]

Or is it that things in this life interfere with healing? Is it making bad choices about what we eat rather than God doesnt heal? Does sin affect our lives of course it does and we all sin. Twist it any way you wish but healing is in the bible and no matter how you wish to portray God as withiholding what we need as a bad Father would do He doesnt

Nobody has said healing isn't in the Bible.

There's a yawning gap between "God always heals" (which is demonstrably not true) and "God never heals" (which is also demonstrably not true). In the middle is "God sometimes heals". This is consistent with just about any reading of Scriptural passages on the topic, consistent with day-to-day observations and also makes the most sense.

If it truly is God's will that we should never be sick, why do we die? If we are going to die why is it such a stretch to accept we may be sick before we die (in other words we die of something specific, rather than plodding along merrily until we reach whatever age is chosen for us at which point we drop dead without any warning)?

If you really want to claim that "making bad choices about what we eat" blocks healing, are you saying that a bunch of trans fats and monosodium glutamate is more powerful than God himself? If it's always God's will to heal how come there are suddenly preconditions? Or are you saying that it's always God's will to heal as long as we do our part by not getting sick in the first place?

 

[psalms 91]

Nobody has said healing isn't in the Bible.

There's a yawning gap between "God always heals" (which is demonstrably not true) and "God never heals" (which is also demonstrably not true). In the middle is "God sometimes heals". This is consistent with just about any reading of Scriptural passages on the topic, consistent with day-to-day observations and also makes the most sense.

If it truly is God's will that we should never be sick, why do we die? If we are going to die why is it such a stretch to accept we may be sick before we die (in other words we die of something specific, rather than plodding along merrily until we reach whatever age is chosen for us at which point we drop dead without any warning)?

If you really want to claim that "making bad choices about what we eat" blocks healing, are you saying that a bunch of trans fats and monosodium glutamate is more powerful than God himself? If it's always God's will to heal how come there are suddenly preconditions? Or are you saying that it's always God's will to heal as long as we do our part by not getting sick in the first place?

Are they more powerful, no. But why would God heal you of something that you are going to get right back from your poor habits? Seems to me thatif we want healing then we will quit doing the very things that caused our condition to start with

 

[Alithis]

Or is it that things in this life interfere with healing? Is it making bad choices about what we eat rather than God doesnt heal? Does sin affect our lives of course it does and we all sin. Twist it any way you wish but healing is in the bible and no matter how you wish to portray God as withholding what we need as a bad Father would do He doesn't

twist .. is the only word to describe that affront againt the promises of God .

i am astounded at times by the level of resistance to the promises of God ..
BUT but they say .. this person has this sickness and is not yet healed ...
so what are they trying to tell me ? that Gods word lies ? when he said " ALL things are possible if you believe... " was he just kidding us ? God forbid the suggestion .

it is always Gods will to heal

 

[Alithis]

Nobody has said healing isn't in the Bible.

There's a yawning gap between "God always heals" (which is demonstrably not true) and "God never heals" (which is also demonstrably not true). In the middle is "God sometimes heals". This is consistent with just about any reading of Scriptural passages on the topic, consistent with day-to-day observations and also makes the most sense.

If it truly is God's will that we should never be sick, why do we die? If we are going to die why is it such a stretch to accept we may be sick before we die (in other words we die of something specific, rather than plodding along merrily until we reach whatever age is chosen for us at which point we drop dead without any warning)?

If you really want to claim that "making bad choices about what we eat" blocks healing, are you saying that a bunch of trans fats and monosodium glutamate is more powerful than God himself? If it's always God's will to heal how come there are suddenly preconditions? Or are you saying that it's always God's will to heal as long as we do our part by not getting sick in the first place?

nope .. you've just proclaimed that God is inconsistent and cannot be trusted to be faithful to his word .
think about it .where does the lord JEsus say all things are possible to those who believe .."sometimes". ?

 

[tango]

Are they more powerful, no. But why would God heal you of something that you are going to get right back from your poor habits? Seems to me thatif we want healing then we will quit doing the very things that caused our condition to start with

If God is stronger than our bad habits maybe he could make our bodies so that monosodium glutamate, trans fats and other chemical baddies weren't so damaging to it, no?

The question remains, does God always heal or not? If you're shifting from "God always heals" to "God always heals as long as we meet the preconditions" then it would be good to know what the preconditions are, no?

And what of the people who may be doing things that damage their health without even realising it? It wasn't that long ago that cigarettes were presented as a healthy thing. A while ago Guinness was presented as healthy. Now it's believed there are health benefits to drinking red wine. But how much is healthy and at what point does it become unhealthy? If you ask a dozen experts you'll probably get a dozen different answers, which goes right back to the question of why God would allow our bodies to become unhealthy if his will was always to heal us of our ailments.

On that note, why do we get sick at all? It makes God look like some kind of bimbling halfwit if he heals us on demand but apparently doesn't think to prevent the sickness taking hold of us in the first place.

 

[tango]

twist .. is the only word to describe that affront againt the promises of God .

i am astounded at times by the level of resistance to the promises of God ..
BUT but they say .. this person has this sickness and is not yet healed ...
so what are they trying to tell me ? that Gods word lies ? when he said " ALL things are possible if you believe... " was he just kidding us ? God forbid the suggestion .

All things are possible? So does the empty space on my driveway where I might like a gleaming black Lamborghini Aventador Roadster to be sitting just provide evidence of my own failures? Or maybe that particular comment was based on the context it was spoken rather than a universal promise that we can all have whatever we want.

it is always Gods will to heal

Constantly repeating the mantra doesn't make it any more true.

 

[tango]

nope .. you've just proclaimed that God is inconsistent and cannot be trusted to be faithful to his word .
think about it .where does the lord JEsus say all things are possible to those who believe .."sometimes". ?

I've done nothing of the sort.

The fact God doesn't always work in a formulaic way that we can define doesn't mean he cannot be trusted. If God worked in accordance with our wishes he wouldn't be much of a god, he would be a puppet on a string with us pulling the strings. Frankly any god that does what we tell it to do, when we tell it to do it, isn't worthy of our worship because it is clearly a lesser being than we are.

It's easy enough to pull a verse here or there to try and prove a point but you still have to explain why people all over the world are not healed. If it's always God's will to heal why are there still sick people? Is God less powerful than we are? Can our own uncertainty block the power of the Almighty? Surely not, or we're back to the issue of us being stronger than God again.

I don't see the difference between some being healthy and others being sick as any different to the difference between some being rich and others being poor, or some being strong and others being weak, or some being intelligent and others being unintelligent. Why does God apparently bless some and not others? We might start an answer to that question by considering what "bless" actually means.

I know a lady in her 60s who is a wheelchair user. She hasn't been physically right since she was born. She can walk short distances, leaning heavily on crutches and moving very slowly and painfully. Years of doing that before she started using a wheelchair all but permanently shifted the load of moving around from her legs to her arms, and trashed her shoulders in the process. She's a very Godly woman, and in her words God can use her in her condition in ways that just wouldn't work if she were fully able-bodied. So taking one viewpoint she's been waiting over half a century for healing that never came, but from another viewpoint she's exactly where God wants her to be.

Jesus also told us to take up our cross and follow him. He never said it would be easy. He never said that if we believed enough our crosses would be taken from us and we could take a gentle stroll down a nice easy path.

 

[psalms 91]

If God is stronger than our bad habits maybe he could make our bodies so that monosodium glutamate, trans fats and other chemical baddies weren't so damaging to it, no?

The question remains, does God always heal or not? If you're shifting from "God always heals" to "God always heals as long as we meet the preconditions" then it would be good to know what the preconditions are, no?

And what of the people who may be doing things that damage their health without even realising it? It wasn't that long ago that cigarettes were presented as a healthy thing. A while ago Guinness was presented as healthy. Now it's believed there are health benefits to drinking red wine. But how much is healthy and at what point does it become unhealthy? If you ask a dozen experts you'll probably get a dozen different answers, which goes right back to the question of why God would allow our bodies to become unhealthy if his will was always to heal us of our ailments.

On that note, why do we get sick at all? It makes God look like some kind of bimbling halfwit if he heals us on demand but apparently doesn't think to prevent the sickness taking hold of us in the first place.

Again, do you think that God wants us sick? We can keep doing this all day long but lets face it it either means that God doesnt care and wants us sick or that He will heal. As to knowing what is bad for us try hearing what God is saying to you, He will tell you to quit certain things, we may not understand it at the time but it will be for our good. Also many here dismiss the Law in the Old Testament and if you loomk at the dietary laws they are benefical for our health, but it is up to each of us whether we do or not also whether we listen for God and obey

 

[tango]

Again, do you think that God wants us sick? We can keep doing this all day long but lets face it it either means that God doesnt care and wants us sick or that He will heal.

By the same argument do you think God wants us stupid, poor, or even dead for that matter?

Allowing sickness isn't "not caring" any more than allowing natural disasters. Does God "not care" about the people washed away by tsunamis, killed by tornados, driven away from the only home they have ever known by wildfires, buried under mudslides or volcanic ash? If God can be considered to "not care" for people who are sick he must be utterly heartless to allow natural disasters. So then we get into the argument of why God allows bad things to happen, which is another discussion in itself (feel free to start another thread if you want, it's a bit off topic for this one).

As to knowing what is bad for us try hearing what God is saying to you, He will tell you to quit certain things, we may not understand it at the time but it will be for our good.

Sure, but that's an unrelated issue. Some people live what appears to be a very healthy lifestyle but still struggle with health issues. Other people overeat, drink heavily, smoke heavily and just keep going. You're still not addressing the issues of people who become sick for no readily apparent reason. And then there are the people born with physical issues that they struggle with their entire life. What should they have given up to prevent their issues?

Also many here dismiss the Law in the Old Testament and if you loomk at the dietary laws they are benefical for our health, but it is up to each of us whether we do or not also whether we listen for God and obey

That's also not relevant to the topic at hand. The dietary laws certainly made a lot of sense to nomadic people in a hot area with no access to refrigeration. They may make some sense today, although now we have chillers and freezers some of the issues with food spoilage aren't a problem any more.

 

[psalms 91]

By the same argument do you think God wants us stupid, poor, or even dead for that matter?

Allowing sickness isn't "not caring" any more than allowing natural disasters. Does God "not care" about the people washed away by tsunamis, killed by tornados, driven away from the only home they have ever known by wildfires, buried under mudslides or volcanic ash? If God can be considered to "not care" for people who are sick he must be utterly heartless to allow natural disasters. So then we get into the argument of why God allows bad things to happen, which is another discussion in itself (feel free to start another thread if you want, it's a bit off topic for this one).



Sure, but that's an unrelated issue. Some people live what appears to be a very healthy lifestyle but still struggle with health issues. Other people overeat, drink heavily, smoke heavily and just keep going. You're still not addressing the issues of people who become sick for no readily apparent reason. And then there are the people born with physical issues that they struggle with their entire life. What should they have given up to prevent their issues?



That's also not relevant to the topic at hand. The dietary laws certainly made a lot of sense to nomadic people in a hot area with no access to refrigeration. They may make some sense today, although now we have chillers and freezers some of the issues with food spoilage aren't a problem any more.

I am not God so I dont know everything nor do I pretend to. I really do not want to keep going round and round like some other threads have done so I will leave you to your beliefs and I will choose to know that God wants to heal us and prosper us, it is us not God that prevents it

 

[psalms 91]

I am not God so I dont know everything nor do I pretend to. I really do not want to keep going round and round like some other threads have done so I will leave you to your beliefs and I will choose to know that God wants to heal us and prosper us, it is us not God that prevents it

All the things you say are not related actually are but you dont want to examine everything because it would mean beiung accountable for our own choices and for not hearing God

 

[Alithis]

I've done nothing of the sort.

The fact God doesn't always work in a formulaic way that we can define doesn't mean he cannot be trusted. If God worked in accordance with our wishes he wouldn't be much of a god, he would be a puppet on a string with us pulling the strings. Frankly any god that does what we tell it to do, when we tell it to do it, isn't worthy of our worship because it is clearly a lesser being than we are.

It's easy enough to pull a verse here or there to try and prove a point but you still have to explain why people all over the world are not healed. If it's always God's will to heal why are there still sick people? Is God less powerful than we are? Can our own uncertainty block the power of the Almighty? Surely not, or we're back to the issue of us being stronger than God again.

I don't see the difference between some being healthy and others being sick as any different to the difference between some being rich and others being poor, or some being strong and others being weak, or some being intelligent and others being unintelligent. Why does God apparently bless some and not others? We might start an answer to that question by considering what "bless" actually means.

I know a lady in her 60s who is a wheelchair user. She hasn't been physically right since she was born. She can walk short distances, leaning heavily on crutches and moving very slowly and painfully. Years of doing that before she started using a wheelchair all but permanently shifted the load of moving around from her legs to her arms, and trashed her shoulders in the process. She's a very Godly woman, and in her words God can use her in her condition in ways that just wouldn't work if she were fully able-bodied. So taking one viewpoint she's been waiting over half a century for healing that never came, but from another viewpoint she's exactly where God wants her to be.

Jesus also told us to take up our cross and follow him. He never said it would be easy. He never said that if we believed enough our crosses would be taken from us and we could take a gentle stroll down a nice easy path.

So..you dont believe .

Got it .

 

[Josiah]

So..you dont believe .

Got it .

Odds are pretty good that one day, you will die. In other words, not be healed. Happens a lot - eventually. Is this proof that God doesn't not always heal? Or is it proof that NONE pray well enough or believe quite enough? Including - some day - you?

 

[psalms 91]

Odds are pretty good that one day, you will die. In other words, not be healed. Happens a lot - eventually. Is this proof that God doesn't not always heal? Or is it proof that NONE pray well enough or believe quite enough? Including - some day - you?

Or is it because of original sin? It seems to me that it is not God who doesnt understand but us, no? We are appointed once to die

 

[Josiah]

Or is it because of original sin? It seems to me that it is not God who doesnt understand but us, no? We are appointed once to die

Thus, it seems to me, no one is always healed. At least physically. ALL die. Even those - it would seem - with valid faith and valid prayers. Eventually.

 

[Hammster]

So..you dont believe .

Got it .

Sorry, but you and Bill are full of crap. I've mentioned in this thread about my wife and her ailments. I have to take her to the doctor on Friday to have more tests run, not so that they can find a cure, but so that they can slow down the progress of her disease. I've mentioned that if you and Bill were correct, then your faith in prayer should result in her healing. So either you are completely wrong in your beliefs, or you just don't care about my wife enough to pray for her healing.

I'd hate to think you are a cold-hearted bastard.

 

[Full O Beans]

When people make claims that they have prayed for healing but nothing happened, I am always quick to assure them that they need to add "yet".

We believers need to be aware that the bible also teaches us that we are to command sickness in the name of Jesus, as the disciples all did. We have been given the authority of Christ over disease. It takes faith, but we have it.

 

[Hammster]

When people make claims that they have prayed for healing but nothing happened, I am always quick to assure them that they need to add "yet".

We believers need to be aware that the bible also teaches us that we are to command sickness in the name of Jesus, as the disciples all did. We have been given the authority of Christ over disease. It takes faith, but we have it.

Where do you find slow healing in scripture? And does it always require the faith of those being healed?