Why was Mary necessary?

[George]

I agree with scripture I dont agree with your interpretation. Yes He was and is God and yes He was also man and in orde rto win victory over sin He was man, had to be or else it didnt win us anything, when He defeated satan He was man, had to be orelse it was God that defeated satan and if thats the case then He won nothing back for man. He laid it all aside as evidenced by the dove descending on Him showing that He also needed the Holy Spirit to operate because He was man. He showed us how man can be used by God or else He showed us nothing. He showed us how to overcome temptation as man or else if He was God then He showed us nothing. Hope this makes sense to you and that you can see it clearly

So when Christ entered Hades, was He man or God?

Lol he just didn't kick His Divinity to the side. He walked and acted like us, yet was man and God fully.

 

[Alithis]

Im not arguing anything.just pointing it out.
Mary is not the mother of God.
He has no mother.
Jesus..the word of God who is God..became flesh.
Fully flesh. Did satan kill God on the cross?
Nope. God cant die. But the man (flesh and blood ) Jesus did. He became flesh for this purpose.
Mary is the mother to this flesh. Not To God. You know... The Father whom the son prayed to listened to and obeyed.because in his flesh form he is the son.. Not the father. And he is subject to the father ...this one who is subject to the father is whom mary bore into the world. Not be her own doing.not of adam but of the Holy Ghost.

This one who became flesh.. Mary was mother to the flesh. She is not mother to the eternal god from whence Jesus came ,for he was with him before the foundations of the earth. And she is not mother to his glorified being who has returned to the father from whence he came.
Mary-is not the mother of God.
It is why the scriptures NEVER calls her that. And no one here is going to make it appear suddenly in the scripture.
It does not originate from God.

 

[George]

Im not arguing anything.just pointing it out.
Mary is not the mother of God.
He has no mother.
Jesus..the word of God who is God..became flesh.
Fully flesh. Did satan kill God on the cross?
Nope. God cant die. But the man (flesh and blood ) Jesus did. He became flesh for this purpose.
Mary is the mother to this flesh. Not To God. You know... The Father whom the son prayed to listened to and obeyed.because in his flesh form he is the son.. Not the father. And he is subject to the father ...this one who is subject to the father is whom mary bore into the world. Not be her own doing.not of adam but of the Holy Ghost.

This one who became flesh.. Mary was mother to the flesh. She is not mother to the eteral god from whence Jesus came ,for he was with him before the foundations of the earth. And she is not mother to his glorified being who has returned to the father from whence he came.
Mary-is not the mother of God.
It is why the scriptures NEVER calls her that. And no one here is going to make it appear suddenly in the scripture.
It does not originate from God.

Lol you're way over thinking it. Like I don't get why you are. The title is meant to enforce the natures of Christ, not say Mary created God. Mary has no powers, and Mary is not God. You are getting way hung up over that.

And again, before you touch on Scripture not mentioning the title of Mother of God lol, I know for a fact that the Church uses many terms that are not given in Scripture, yet with the attention they're given, you think they would be.

I can respect your beliefs with the thoughts of not revering Mary as the Mother of God and such, but the way you're putting it, you're saying that Christ was only man on Earth.

It does not originate from God.

The term Sunday School isn't originating from God either but look where it's at.

And no one here is going to make it appear suddenly in the scripture.

Funny you should mention Scripture, when you actually called Scripture out on a supposed lie.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; 7 rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. ...

Dont get distracted . the point here is. Mary is mother to this flesh manifestation.. Not mother of God. ...

Blessed Mary is the mother of Jesus who is the Christ and is God almighty. There's no "flesh manifestation" there's "The man Jesus Christ" whole and entirely man and whole and entirely God. That is why Blessed Mary is the mother of God - not by any special power of her own, or by any special virtue that that she possesses but by the divine grace of God in her as God's great gift of himself to creation because in the incarnation God gives himself unstintingly to creation to redeem it from the futility that he himself subjected it to because of sins.

 

[Lamb]

Im not arguing anything.just pointing it out.
Mary is not the mother of God.
He has no mother.
Jesus..the word of God who is God..became flesh.
Fully flesh. Did satan kill God on the cross?
Nope. God cant die. But the man (flesh and blood ) Jesus did. He became flesh for this purpose.
Mary is the mother to this flesh. Not To God. You know... The Father whom the son prayed to listened to and obeyed.because in his flesh form he is the son.. Not the father. And he is subject to the father ...this one who is subject to the father is whom mary bore into the world. Not be her own doing.not of adam but of the Holy Ghost.

This one who became flesh.. Mary was mother to the flesh. She is not mother to the eteral god from whence Jesus came ,for he was with him before the foundations of the earth. And she is not mother to his glorified being who has returned to the father from whence he came.
Mary-is not the mother of God.
It is why the scriptures NEVER calls her that. And no one here is going to make it appear suddenly in the scripture.
It does not originate from God.

You're splitting Jesus into halves and that's a heresy already mentioned here in this thread.

 

[TurtleHare]

Calling scripture a lie certainly seems sinful eh? Josiah repeatedly gave 2 proving verses yet they were called a lie. How else is proof to be pointed out to someone who won't see?

 

[Josiah]

Jesus..the word of God who is God..became flesh.

1. You need to review two ancient, horrible heresies: Arianism and Nestorianism. All reject these heresies, you should too.

2. At the Incarnation, the Second Person took on flesh. But the result is one who is 100% God and 100% man - both, fully, totally, inseperably. Your premise that God ceased and a human took over is unbiblical and heretical.

3. The ancient title (which comes from an Ecumenical Council PROTESTANTS usually accept!) affirms two things: Mary bore Jesus and Jesus may correctly be called "God." You have been showed repeatedly that Scripture affirms both of these things (see Luke 2:1-7 and John 20:28, etc., etc.). If you protest this title, you ergo must reject one or both of the things it and Scripture affirms.... you either need to identify who bore Jesus if Scripture is wrong and it wasn't Mary and/or you need to show why Scripture is wrong to call JESUS "God."

4. It seems to me your error springs from two things:
+ You are ignoring the title (you seem to ignore much). It's "Mary - the Mother of God". I suspect you are just ignoring that and in stead of that, in lieu of that, in place of that, are creating and inventing a pure strawman - one what NONE have EVER used or believed or professes: "Mary - the Origin of the Trinity." No one here is interested in discussing your silly strawman substitution.
+ You seem to deny the two natures of Christ, aliening with Arianism and Nestorianism. Christians are simply not going to agree with ancient, unbiblical heresies.



Thank you.


Pax


- Josiah

 

[psalms 91]

sigh

 

[MoreCoffee]

sigh

Yes, brother bill, it is sad to see such stubborn resistance to the clear teaching of holy scripture that Mary is the mother of Jesus and Jesus is God and hence Mary is the mother of God.

 

[Alithis]

Lol you're way over thinking it. Like I don't get why you are. The title is meant to enforce the natures of Christ, not say Mary created God. Mary has no powers, and Mary is not God. You are getting way hung up over that. reply : it only took the smallest deviation from the truth to bring sin into the world .the title is a LIE and originates from the father of lies -from it comes all the other false doctrines of mary that rome perpetuates -one lie leads to many lies . one small lie leads the millions astray - what a strange thing to say " you wonder why i'd be hung up on it" ..im not hung up on it .i simply won't accept the lie just because many repeat it over and over .

And again, before you touch on Scripture not mentioning the title of Mother of God lol, I know for a fact that the Church uses many terms that are not given in Scripture, yet with the attention they're given, you think they would be. reply :if a non biblical terminology is used to clarify what IS already written and so agree with the truth ,i have no problem with it .. if a non biblical terminology is used to reinforce something that is NOT scriptural and so is opposed to the truth i can never accept it . neither does any one who has a love for the truth . there are terminologies (and practices )in charismatic circles which i equally oppose even though i was raised in those circles . we cannot adhere to ANY denomination nor doctrine of men which amounts to mere carnal tradition and then impose that tradition OVER the word of God . we must ALWAYS return to the word of God .just because a term is used often by the many does not suddenly make it truth . a lie remains a lie .ie - the many are saying adultery is ok ..the many are saying many things they cal light dark and dark light they call good evil and evil good . but the world will not be judged by what the many say.. but by the word of God .

I can respect your beliefs with the thoughts of not revering Mary as the Mother of God and such, but the way you're putting it, you're saying that Christ was only man on Earth.reply :-incorrect,i have repeated what IS written , not taken from it nor added to it



The term Sunday School isn't originating from God either but look where it's at.reply -neither does it lead astray and perpetuate a lie



Funny you should mention Scripture, when you actually called Scripture out on a supposed lie.reply : incorrect again-i have repeated what IS written not added nor taken away

replies inserted .
the point remains .. MARY is NOT the mother of GOD , nor does God ever bestow the title upon her -it does not originate from GOD .

 

[Alithis]

1. You need to review two ancient, horrible heresies: Arianism and Nestorianism. All reject these heresies, you should too.

2. At the Incarnation, the Second Person took on flesh. But the result is one who is 100% God and 100% man - both, fully, totally, inseperably. Your premise that God ceased and a human took over is unbiblical and heretical.

3. The ancient title (which comes from an Ecumenical Council PROTESTANTS usually accept!) affirms two things: Mary bore Jesus and Jesus may correctly be called "God." You have been showed repeatedly that Scripture affirms both of these things (see Luke 2:1-7 and John 20:28, etc., etc.). If you protest this title, you ergo must reject one or both of the things it and Scripture affirms.... you either need to identify who bore Jesus if Scripture is wrong and it wasn't Mary and/or you need to show why Scripture is wrong to call JESUS "God."

4. It seems to me your error springs from two things:
+ You are ignoring the title (you seem to ignore much). It's "Mary - the Mother of God". I suspect you are just ignoring that and in stead of that, in lieu of that, in place of that, are creating and inventing a pure strawman - one what NONE have EVER used or believed or professes: "Mary - the Origin of the Trinity." No one here is interested in discussing your silly strawman substitution.
+ You seem to deny the two natures of Christ, aliening with Arianism and Nestorianism. Christians are simply not going to agree with ancient, unbiblical heresies.



Thank you.


Pax


- Josiah

? you make me laugh . now your accusing me of heresy for ignoring something that is NOT written in the bible ? - thats fine i will go right on ignoring what is NOT written and hold fast to what IS written .

 

[Alithis]

sigh

i agree .

without twisting the meaning of your sigh ..haha

 

[Josiah]

? you make me laugh . now your accusing me of heresy for ignoring something that is NOT written in the bible ? - thats fine i will go right on ignoring what is NOT written and hold fast to what IS written .

I suggested you review two ancient, condemned heresies. I think if you had, you'd see that a separation of His natures is.... well.... heretical.


What IS written includes two key things: Mary bore Jesus and Jesus may be called "GOD" (the identical two things this title affirms). THAT is what IS written: Mary bore Jesus and Jesus may be called "GOD." To deny the title we're discussing mandates a denial of one or both of the two things it affirms, both of which ARE written in Scripture: Scripture write that Mary bore Jesus, Scripture writes that Jesus may be called God. Luke 2:1-7, John 20:28 Etc., etc.



- Josiah

 

[George]

replies inserted .
the point remains .. MARY is NOT the mother of GOD , nor does God ever bestow the title upon her -it does not originate from GOD .

Lol you're way over thinking it. Like I don't get why you are. The title is meant to enforce the natures of Christ, not say Mary created God. Mary has no powers, and Mary is not God. You are getting way hung up over that. reply : it only took the smallest deviation from the truth to bring sin into the world .the title is a LIE and originates from the father of lies -from it comes all the other false doctrines of mary that rome perpetuates -one lie leads to many lies . one small lie leads the millions astray - what a strange thing to say " you wonder why i'd be hung up on it" ..im not hung up on it .i simply won't accept the lie just because many repeat it over and over .

And again, before you touch on Scripture not mentioning the title of Mother of God lol, I know for a fact that the Church uses many terms that are not given in Scripture, yet with the attention they're given, you think they would be. reply :if a non biblical terminology is used to clarify what IS already written and so agree with the truth ,i have no problem with it .. if a non biblical terminology is used to reinforce something that is NOT scriptural and so is opposed to the truth i can never accept it . neither does any one who has a love for the truth . there are terminologies (and practices )in charismatic circles which i equally oppose even though i was raised in those circles . we cannot adhere to ANY denomination nor doctrine of men which amounts to mere carnal tradition and then impose that tradition OVER the word of God . we must ALWAYS return to the word of God .just because a term is used often by the many does not suddenly make it truth . a lie remains a lie .ie - the many are saying adultery is ok ..the many are saying many things they cal light dark and dark light they call good evil and evil good . but the world will not be judged by what the many say.. but by the word of God .

I can respect your beliefs with the thoughts of not revering Mary as the Mother of God and such, but the way you're putting it, you're saying that Christ was only man on Earth.reply :-incorrect,i have repeated what IS written , not taken from it nor added to it



The term Sunday School isn't originating from God either but look where it's at.reply -neither does it lead astray and perpetuate a lie



Funny you should mention Scripture, when you actually called Scripture out on a supposed lie.reply : incorrect again-i have repeated what IS written not added nor taken away

Lol wut?



You've repeated what Scripture says yet you fail to believe it and apply your own thinking, rather than the meaning.

You are correct, we return to the Word of God at the end of the day. Which does say that Christ was having his two natures while on Earth and that Mary is the Mother of God. You have the mentality right now thinking we are saying that Mary created God and that pretty much Mary is the Creator. Mary has no powers and what have you to perform miracles. All power and miracle working comes from the power and authority of God.

Lol I don't get why people don't understand they're playing with heretical beliefs and such that were struck down by the Ecumenical Councils that are accepted by all churches, regardless of denomination.

 

[Brighten04]

sigh

ditto

 

[Josiah]

Lol I don't get why people don't understand they're playing with heretical beliefs and such that were struck down by the Ecumenical Councils that are accepted by all churches, regardless of denomination.

I've been involved in this discussion on the 'net since I was 10 (and still Catholic). I've ALWAYS been stunned and amazed by those who reject it. I've found that rejection comes in one of 3 forms...

1. "It's Catholic so it's wrong." Heaven knows all are familiar with my stance on Catholicism, but this argument always amazes me. First of it, it's not JUST Catholic. Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans and beyond also use it. And of course, Catholics believe a LOT of things we Protestants believe.... so it's just inconsistent and contradictory to insist something is wrong "because it's Catholic."

2. "Mary is NOT the Creator of Trinity!" I think a lot of people don't actually READ the title. Matre Dei and Theotokos do NOT mean "Creator of the Trinity." They create a pure strawman that no one EVER uses and no one believes - one different than the title - and then blast their own strawman out of the water. The term "GOD" is often used by Scripture to refer to one "Person" and does not always mean the whole of the Trinity.

3. "Jesus Isn't God!" This denial of Jesus' divinity is SHOCKING. And as one who is now Protestant, it is deeply, deeply disturbing to see it among some Protestants (we need to do a MUCH better job of teaching theology to our people). This is basic Council of Nicea, Council of Chalcadon stuff; basic Nicene Creed stuff. Jesus has TWO natures - both fully true, fully real, fully present.... 100% man, 100% God.... inseparable. The divine "communicates" with the human (although not the other way around). Thus, Scripture does not err when it calls JESUS specifically "GOD." Now, He's also human but that make him no less God (any more than when we call Obama "president" are we thereby denying that he's also a husband). This is very fundamental and very important stuff. And it is shocking to see it denied, rejected - making Scripture wrong, 2000 years of universal (INCLUDING PROTESTANT) Christianity wrong (to its very core).



Pax


- Josiah

 

[MoreCoffee]

Lol wut?



You've repeated what Scripture says yet you fail to believe it and apply your own thinking, rather than the meaning.

You are correct, we return to the Word of God at the end of the day. Which does say that Christ was having his two natures while on Earth and that Mary is the Mother of God. You have the mentality right now thinking we are saying that Mary created God and that pretty much Mary is the Creator. Mary has no powers and what have you to perform miracles. All power and miracle working comes from the power and authority of God.

Lol I don't get why people don't understand they're playing with heretical beliefs and such that were struck down by the Ecumenical Councils that are accepted by all churches, regardless of denomination.

Is isn't lack of understanding that stops folk from acknowledging Blessed Mary as the mother of God. Those folk understand that "mother of God" doesn't mean that Blessed Mary is God's creator or that she is superior to God or that she is a member if the Blessed and Holy Trinity.

 

[Pelikan]

Alithis I'd be really interested in seeing your Scriptural and only Scriptural evidence to support that Christ was not both God and man whilst on Earth.

I know you're big on gifts and I can't think of your reasoning as anything other than a means to your own end that Christ was given gifts and not the giver of gifts. There has to be an ulterior motive because it doesn't stack up against the Word.

 

[TurtleHare]

replies inserted .
the point remains .. MARY is NOT the mother of GOD , nor does God ever bestow the title upon her -it does not originate from GOD .

But Jesus is God and Mary birthed Him, so why such a fuss about it?

 

[MoreCoffee]

But Jesus is God and Mary birthed Him, so why such a fuss about it?

The fuss may be because without it few weapons against the Catholic Church remain for those who want to condemn her. So many of the old weapons have been taken away because they cannot withstand scrutiny and were found to be lies - the product of wicked imaginations and propaganda. This weapon is also a lie produced by wicked imaginations. How can any who are capable of calm reflection on the teachings of holy scripture refuse to believe the syllogism (1) Mary is the mother of Jesus (2) Jesus is God (3) therefore Mary is the mother of God. That any can refuse it completely is a witness to something other than calm reflection on holy scripture being at work in their minds.