Why was Mary necessary?

[Alithis]

The Nicene Creed called Jesus 100% God and 100% man...so you don't sound like a triune Christian? Jesus didn't stop being God while he is still 100% man. That's why Mary is the mother of God. You sound more like you believe in the false theology of modalism.

Misdirecting the topic a bit there. You know the point is clear.
The word of God never ever gives her that title.
God did not begin at jesus becoming flesh. She is the mother of the flesh manifestation
..not the mother of God who is eternal and has no beginning. Mother of God remains a title of blasphemy.
It is a title added by wicked men who changed the name of thier false godess to mary.
It is so clear that the mary of rome and the mary of the bible are not the same person.

The scripture does not give such a blashemous title and neither will i .

 

[Josiah]

Misdirecting the topic a bit there. You know the point is clear.
The word of God never ever gives her that title.
God did not begin at jesus becoming flesh. She is the mother of the flesh manifestation
..not the mother of God who is eternal and has no beginning. Mother of God remains a title of blasphemy.
It is a title added by wicked men who changed the name of thier false godess to mary.
It is so clear that the mary of rome and the mary of the bible are not the same person.

The scripture does not give such a blashemous title and neither will i .

1. The title is NOT, "Mary - the Mother of the Trinity." THAT title would a heresy but THAT title has never been used, never believed, never affirmed. (Of course, I'm sure you never say "Trinity" since the word is never found in the Bible)

2. The title affirms two and only two things: Mary bore Jesus and Jesus may rightly be called God. Look up Luke 2:1-7 and John 20:28. To deny the title is to deny and reject and repudiate one or both of those things: Either rejecting Mary as the one who bore Jesus and/or that Jesus may be referred to as God (as the Bible itself does). Either way, you are rejecting what Scripture teaches.

Check this out: Check this out: http://www.gotquestions.org/divinity-of-Christ.html




.

 

[George]

Misdirecting the topic a bit there. You know the point is clear.
The word of God never ever gives her that title.
God did not begin at jesus becoming flesh. She is the mother of the flesh manifestation
..not the mother of God who is eternal and has no beginning. Mother of God remains a title of blasphemy.
It is a title added by wicked men who changed the name of thier false godess to mary.
It is so clear that the mary of rome and the mary of the bible are not the same person.

The scripture does not give such a blashemous title and neither will i .

Lol pretty sure Scripture doesn't give other titles for other things yet here we have people using them.

 

[George]

I don't how people get so hung up by this simple title. Its meaning goes back to the Christ.

Mother of God. How is Mary the Mother of God? A mother is someone who has conceived someone or something. Did Mary conceive someone? Jesus was conceived by Mary through the Incarnation of the Holy Spirit. Jesus was fully God while fully Man. Therefore, you can not single out one nature of Christ without holding the other together. Mother of Jesus or Mother of God, they both go hand in hand.

Absolutely totes lol.

 

[Josiah]

I don't how people get so hung up by this simple title. Its meaning goes back to the Christ.

As a Protestant now, I admit - I've always been amazed (and puzzled) by SOME of the things my (now) fellow Protestants "protest." OFTEN, I think there's just a misunderstanding (albeit at times understandable!). There's a LOT to protest without obsessing over things that frankly don't deserve it.

I've been reading these denials of this title since I was 10 (and still Catholic) - AMAZED. Usually, I think the "problem" is nothing more than some THINKING the title is "Mary - Mother of the Trinity" (which would be wrong) or maybe "Mary - the Source and Cause of God" (which also would be heresy). Of course, Scripture itself - repeatedly - calls Jesus "GOD." Indeed, each of the Three Persons are each called "God" in Scripture. Scripture does it so it should NOT be wrong for Christians.

I agree, however, with SOME who argue that while the title is technically and theologically correct and valid - it CAN be confusing. I think that's true (witness the HUNDREDS of threads on this I've read over the years!!!!!). It often needs explaining among some "Evangelicals" (especially Americans). If you have to explain a joke before they "get it", it's probably not such a good joke! The same could probably be said for theological terminology? Especially if EASY alternatives are available? "Mary - the Mother of Jesus, the Incarnate God" says exactly the same thing but doesn't usually need explaining.

What has surprised and saddened me HERE - in THIS thread - is the denial of Jesus as God! THAT I've never witnessed before in this debate! THAT shocked me. Before, when the obvious is made clear: this is simply affirming two things - Mary bore Jesus and Jesus may be called God - the whole debate vanishes because NO ONE disputes those two things, the two things the title affirms. This is the first time I've ever witnessed a repudiation of Jesus' divinity (at least among Christians): Yes, amazingly basic stuff..... Council of Chalcadon stuff..... Trinity and Two Natures stuff..... Arianism and Nestorianism....... I CERTAINLY didn't expect that.

Jesus was fully God while fully Man. Therefore, you can not single out one nature of Christ without holding the other together. Mother of Jesus or Mother of God, they both go hand in hand.

Yup. This is so central, so foundational that it's affirmed universally among Christians (well, not Mormons)..... Nicene Creed, Council of Chalcadon. But as one of the posters in this thread pointed out, long ago rejected heresies have a way of recirculating.




Pax



- Josiah

 

[Alithis]

Lol pretty sure Scripture doesn't give other titles for other things yet here we have people using them.

such as? .. and in all probability they are equally wrong. and equally blasphemous -

 

[Alithis]

I don't how people get so hung up by this simple title. Its meaning goes back to the Christ.

Mother of God. How is Mary the Mother of God? A mother is someone who has conceived someone or something. Did Mary conceive someone? Jesus was conceived by Mary through the Incarnation of the Holy Spirit. Jesus was fully God while fully Man. Therefore, you can not single out one nature of Christ without holding the other together. Mother of Jesus or Mother of God, they both go hand in hand.

Absolutely totes lol.

not surprising you give no scripture-just back a carnal tradition . do you admit the mary of rome and the mary of the bible are not the same person .

the mary of the bible is not a perpetual virgin
is not a co mediator
is not the mother of God
is not the queen of heaven

so the mary of the bible ..is NOT the mary of rome .

 

[Alithis]

1. The title is NOT, "Mary - the Mother of the Trinity." THAT title would a heresy but THAT title has never been used, never believed, never affirmed. (Of course, I'm sure you never say "Trinity" since the word is never found in the Bible)

2. The title affirms two and only two things: Mary bore Jesus and Jesus may rightly be called God. Look up Luke 2:1-7 and John 20:28. To deny the title is to deny and reject and repudiate one or both of those things: Either rejecting Mary as the one who bore Jesus and/or that Jesus may be referred to as God (as the Bible itself does). Either way, you are rejecting what Scripture teaches.

Check this out: Check this out: http://www.gotquestions.org/divinity-of-Christ.html




.

so now "God" is not a trinity ? ... ..do make up your mind .

 

[Josiah]

so now "God" is not a trinity ? ... ..do make up your mind .

Correct. Not every reference in the BIBLE of "GOD" is to the whole of the Trinity; and since you say we should follow the example of the BIBLE, thus not every time we mention "GOD" are we referring to the whole of the Trinity. I suspect PART of your denial of this title is that you are not reading the words (again): the title is, "Mary the Mother of God" not (as you seem to insist), "Mary the Mother of the Trinity." You don't seem to notice the last word, you seem to delete the word that actually appears and replace it with a different word that isn't used.

AGAIN, read John 20:28. WHO is Thomas speaking to and about? Yes, it's JESUS. Not the Father, not the Spirit.... it's JESUS. He is looking at JESUS and says YOU (in the singular), he is speaking about JESUS. And what does he call JESUS? Read the verse. No, he doesn't call Him "Trinity" (that would be false) but he does call Him "GOD." This happens all over the Bible (as is obvious to all who have read the book)..... often, the word "GOD" refers to A (one) Person of the Trinity, not to the whole of the Trinity. Now, again, since you insist we are to follow the examples we find in the NT, then we are to follow the examples we find in the NT which is often to refer to any Person of the Trinity as "GOD." Just a FEW (of the many) examples: 1 Peter 1:3 - ONE of the places where "GOD" refers to the Father.... John 20:28 - ONE of the places where "GOD" refers to Jesus.... Acts 5:3-4 just ONE of the places where "GOD" refers to the Holy Spirit.

Again, there is no title of "Mary - the Mother of the Trinity." There is no such title. Never has been. Not anywhere. Not among anyone.



Pax


- Josiah

 

[Alithis]

Correct. Not every reference in the BIBLE of "GOD" is to the whole of the Trinity; and since you say we should follow the example of the BIBLE, thus not every time we mention "GOD" are we referring to the whole of the Trinity. I suspect PART of your denial of this title is that you are not reading the words (again): the title is, "Mary the Mother of God" not (as you seem to insist), "Mary the Mother of the Trinity." You don't seem to notice the last word, you seem to delete the word that actually appears and replace it with a different word that isn't used.

AGAIN, read John 20:28. WHO is Thomas speaking to and about? Yes, it's JESUS. Not the Father, not the Spirit.... it's JESUS. He is looking at JESUS and says YOU (in the singular), he is speaking about JESUS. And what does he call JESUS? Read the verse. No, he doesn't call Him "Trinity" (that would be false) but he does call Him "GOD." This happens all over the Bible (as is obvious to all who have read the book)..... often, the word "GOD" refers to A (one) Person of the Trinity, not to the whole of the Trinity. Now, again, since you insist we are to follow the examples we find in the NT, then we are to follow the examples we find in the NT which is often to refer to any Person of the Trinity as "GOD." Just a FEW (of the many) examples: 1 Peter 1:3 - ONE of the places where "GOD" refers to the Father.... John 20:28 - ONE of the places where "GOD" refers to Jesus.... Acts 5:3-4 just ONE of the places where "GOD" refers to the Holy Spirit.

Again, there is no title of "Mary - the Mother of the Trinity." There is no such title. Never has been. Not anywhere. Not among anyone.



Pax


- Josiah

he is also looking upon the resurrected Christ ..but its just another distraction . the bible does not give mary that title . you know that.
nor did God begin .. at mary .. he is eternal without beginning . the manifestation of god in the flesh has a beginning and mary is the mother of that flesh manifestation .
not the mother of GOD .. the word "God " is plural . it refers to "them" . and we know she is not the mother of the Holy Spirit nor is she the mother of the "Father " .. therefore she is not the mother of GOD .. but only the manifestation of him in the flesh .

but you know this .
you also know that the scripture does not give her that title , not the lord JEsus himself ,not the apostles , not the spirit of God , not the father . so ask yourself .. where did the term originate if it does not originate in the one true living God ? .. the adversary of course .

 

[MoreCoffee]

I don't [know] how people get so hung up by this simple title. Its meaning goes back to the Christ.

Mother of God. How is Mary the Mother of God? A mother is someone who has conceived someone or something. Did Mary conceive someone? Jesus was conceived by Mary through the Incarnation of the Holy Spirit. Jesus was fully God while fully Man. Therefore, you can not single out one nature of Christ without holding the other together. Mother of Jesus or Mother of God, they both go hand in hand.

Absolutely totes lol.

My guess is that they eschew calling Mary the mother of God because in their minds it means Mary is superior to God or that Mary is older than God or that Mary can demand the obedience of God but all of those things are untrue so the scruple is ill founded if any of those is the reason for it.

 

[Lamb]

My guess is that they eschew calling Mary the mother of God because in their minds it means Mary is superior to God or that Mary is older than God or that Mary can demand the obedience of God but all of those things are untrue so the scruple is ill founded if any of those is the reason for it.

I believe you're right. No one makes these claims here...just face value and nothing more.

 

[Ruth]

If you don't want to pray to blessed Mary then don't. What other Christians do with their prayers is nobody's business but their own and God's.

I agree!

 

[Alithis]

My guess is that they eschew calling Mary the mother of God because in their minds it means Mary is superior to God or that Mary is older than God or that Mary can demand the obedience of God but all of those things are untrue so the scruple is ill founded if any of those is the reason for it.

it does not matter how you carnally self justify it .. the title is blasphemy. and it is entwined in all the other devilish doctrines surrounding the veneration and practices -you need to repent of it .

 

[MoreCoffee]

it does not matter how you carnally self justify it .. the title is blasphemy. and it is entwined in all the other devilish doctrines surrounding the veneration and practices -you need to repent of it .

Blessed Mary is the mother of God. The meaning of that title has been given and the theology that leads to it has been explained. To call it a blasphemy is an error to suggest it is devilish is a sin.

 

[Josiah]

the title is blasphemy.

Then you must hold that Scripture is blasphemy since Scripture also affirms the same two things: Mary bore Jesus and Jesus may be called God.



.

 

[psalms 91]

Where in scripture does it call Mary mother of God? Where did Jesus ever call her that? I find it amazing that Catholics cant see that raising Mary above is taking away from Christ and is sacreligious

 

[Lamb]

I thought we've been over this. Jesus called her Mother and He's God.

 

[Josiah]

I thought we've been over this. Jesus called her Mother and He's God.

Ain't complicated, is it?

 

[Josiah]

Where in scripture does it call Mary mother of God?

Mary bore Jesus. Luke 2:1-7, etc.
Jesus is correctly called God. John 20:28, etc.