Tithing

MoreCoffee

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Malachi is my guide and sorry if you throw out the Old Testament, I don't. As for the church you don't think it takes finances to keep the church up? Mission fields buildings, ministers, feeding the poor, providing shelter? Guess the church is to be so poor it can help no one

Generosity to the poor and needy is not in question. The tithe that people typically pay is paid into their meeting's general funds and what becomes of it after that is up to the people who look after church finances. A lot will go to wages some to building maintenance, a lot of mortgages, some to missions, maybe some to the poor or to helping needy people in the meeting. Tithe or no tithe these matters are taken care of by every sort of denomination, meeting, and church. My own Church does not demand a tithe yet Catholic charities abound and many in poor nations and the poor in many rich nations benefit from these charities and all without a tithe requirement because the Church building is not a temple and the pastors are not a tribe.

Malachi says this:
Malachi 3:1-12 (1) Behold, I send my angel, and he will prepare the way before my face. And presently the Sovereign, whom you seek, and the angel of testimony, whom you desire, will arrive at his temple. Behold, he approaches, says the Lord of hosts. (2) And who will be able to consider the day of his advent, and who will stand firm in order to see him? For he is like a refining fire, and like the fuller"s herb. (3) And he will sit refining and cleansing the silver, and he will purge the sons of Levi, and he will gather them like gold and like silver, and they will offer sacrifices to the Lord in justice. (4) And the sacrifice of Judah and of Jerusalem will please the Lord, just as in the days of past generations, and as in the ancient years. (5) And I will approach you in judgment, and I will be a swift witness against evil-doers, and adulterers, and perjurers, and those who cheat the hired hand in his wages, the widows and the orphans, and who oppress the traveller, and who have not feared me, says the Lord of hosts.

(6) For I am the Lord, and I do not change. And you, the sons of Jacob, have not been consumed. (7) For, from the days of your fathers, you have withdrawn from my ordinances and have not kept them. Return to me, and I will return to you, says the Lord of hosts. And you have said, "In what way, shall we return?" (8) If a man will afflict God, then you greatly afflict me. And you have said, "In what way, do we afflict you?" In tithes and in first-fruits. (9) And you have been cursed with privation, and you greatly afflict me, even your entire people. (10) Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, and let there be food in my house. And test me about this, says the Lord, as to whether I will not open to you the floodgates of heaven, and pour out to you a blessing, all the way to abundance. (11) And I will rebuke for your sakes the devourer, and he will not corrupt the fruit of your land. Neither will the vine in the field be barren, says the Lord of hosts. (12) And all nations will call you blessed. For you will be a desirable land, says the Lord of hosts.

Verses 1-5 are about the coming of Jehovah's servant. Most Christians take this to be a prophecy about the advent of the Lord Jesus Christ. It speaks of the refining (by fire) of the faithful of Israel at the advent of the Lord's messenger. They are likened to gold and to silver refined by fire. The passage also peaks of the swift judgement of the Lord against evil-doers. No tithe is mentioned here yet the idea of gold and silver being offered to the Lord is present and the offering in question is the faithful of Israel rather than their money.

Verses 6-12 are about the faults and sins of the Israelites around the time of their return to Judea after the exile. The Cambridge Bible Commentary explains the verses thus:
Malachi 3:6
For I am the Lord, I change not] Rather: For I, the Lord, change not: therefore (lit. and) ye, sons of Jacob, are not consumed. The unchangeableness of Him, whose name, Jehovah, “I am,” is the exponent of His nature, is appealed to as the ground (“for”) of His dealings with Israel. He changes not in His promises and purposes of grace (Rom_11:29); therefore, in spite of their rebellions and provocations, the sons of Jacob are still preserved. It is the same argument that is expanded in Psalm 89:28-37.

Malachi 3:7
Ch. Mal 3:7 to Mal 4:3. Renewed Rebukes, Threatenings and Promises
Ch. Mal 3:7-12. Rebuke in the matter of Tithes and Offerings
7. Even from the days of your fathers] Omit even, with R.V. The connection with Mal 3:6 is well given by Pusey: “Back to those days and from them, ye are gone away from My ordinances. ‘I am not changed from good; ye are not changed from evil. I am unchangeable in holiness; ye are unchangeable in perversity.’*”
gone away] Rather, turned aside, R.V., as the same word is translated elsewhere, e.g. Deut 17:20; Deut 28:14; Jos 23:6; and with the metaphor completed, turned aside from the way, Exo 32:8; Deut 9:12.
Return unto me] Comp. Zec 1:3, where the word (turn, A.V.) is the same.

Malachi 3:8
ye have robbed] Rather, rob; lit. are robbing: it is still going on.
tithes] By the Law of Moses (1) “the tenth of all produce, as well as of flocks and cattle, belongs to Jehovah and must be offered to Him” (Lev 27:30; Lev 27:32); and (2) this tenth is “assigned to the Levites as the reward of their services” (Num 18:21; Num 18:24). Nehemiah in his day had to deal once and again with the evil here rebuked. Notwithstanding the “sure covenant” into which they had entered (Neh 9:38 with Neh 10:32-39), he had occasion, on his return to Jerusalem after an absence of a few years, to reform them again in this very particular (Neh 13:10-14).

Malachi 3:9
a curse] Rather, the curse. The threatened curse has already fallen upon you. See ch. Mal 2:2 with Mal 3:11.
have robbed] Rather rob, as in Mal 3:8.
The pronouns in the Hebrew are emphatic: Me ye are robbing. And the evil is not confined to the priests (ch. Mal 1:6-8; Mal 1:12-14), but extends to “the whole nation”.

Malachi 3:10
all the tithes] More exactly, the whole tithe, R. V. Cf. Deut 26:12.
the storehouse] This may have been the “great chamber”, or “lean to”, surrounding the second Temple on three sides, and consisting of three stories, each containing several rooms, which had been perverted from its original purpose as a receptacle of the tithes and offerings, and assigned by the High-priest to Tobiah, but which Nehemiah had restored to its proper use again (Neh 10:38; Neh 13:5-9; Neh 13:12-13). It is not improbable that the “chambers”, which abutted to the height of three stories on the walls of Solomon’s Temple, were intended in like manner for storehouses (1Ki_6:5-6). In the great Reformation under Hezekiah such chambers were “prepared”, either built or restored, in some part of the Temple area, to receive the enormous influx of tithes and offerings (2Ch 31:11-12).
meat] The Hebrew word properly means “prey”, or “booty”. It has, however, the same meaning of “food” as here in Pro 31:15 (comp. Pro 30:8 for the verb in the same sense), and in Psa 111:5.
the windows of heaven] Comp. Gen 7:11; Gen 8:2; 2Ki 7:2; 2Ki 7:19.
that there shall not be room enough to receive it] Heb. till not enough. The ellipsis has been supplied in various ways: “till there be not (barely) enough, but much more than enough, i.e. abundance”; or “till there be no longer sufficiency with Me, or, as that can never be, in boundless measure”. The rendering, however, of A.V. and R.V., is the simplest and most satisfactory.
The history of the Jews in the time of Hezekiah had already afforded an example of the reward of faithful obedience, in the matter of tithes and offerings, in overflowing abundance bestowed upon them by God. 2Ch 31:10.

Malachi 3:11
the devourer] lit. eater, i.e. any insect, especially the locust, that would devour the fruits of the earth. The same verb is used of the ravages of four insects, “probably different kinds of locusts, or locusts in different stages of growth” (R.V. marginal note), Joe 1:4.
The threatened curse was the “rebuke” (ch. Mal 2:3, note) of the seed: the promised blessing is the “rebuke” of the devourer.
cast her fruit before the time] lit. miscarry. Comp. “a miscarrying womb”, Hos 9:14; “miscarrying ground”, 2Ki 2:19; 2Ki 2:21. So Pliny speaks of “arborum abortus”. (Pusey after Gesen.) In Rev 6:13 we read: “the stars of the heaven fall unto the earth, as a fig tree casteth her unripe figs, when she is shaken of a great wind.”

Malachi 3:12
call you blessed] or happy, R.V., as in Mal_3:15. μακαριοῦσιν ὑμᾶς, LXX. Comp. μακαριοῦσι με, Luk 1:48, and Jas 5:11.
If you have the patience to read the comments then they make it apparent that the provisions invoked in the passage are Mosaic laws intended for Israel. You may wish to live under the provisions of Deut 26:12 and all the other passages about tithes but I can't hep but think that you do not want to follow all the provisions of the law so why single out this one? Why say that "we are to tithe" and not also say that "we are to offer the first fruits to God" and "we are to abstain from blood and unclean foods"?
 
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psalms 91

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Generosity to the poor and needy is not in question. The tithe that people typically pay is paid into their meeting's general funds and what becomes of it after that is up to the people who look after church finances. A lot will go to wages some to building maintenance, a lot of mortgages, some to missions, maybe some to the poor or to helping needy people in the meeting. Tithe or no tithe these matters are taken care of by every sort of denomination, meeting, and church. My own Church does not demand a tithe yet Catholic charities abound and many in poor nations and the poor in many rich nations benefit from these charities and all without a tithe requirement because the Church building is not a temple and the pastors are not a tribe.

Malachi says this:
Malachi 3:1-12 (1) Behold, I send my angel, and he will prepare the way before my face. And presently the Sovereign, whom you seek, and the angel of testimony, whom you desire, will arrive at his temple. Behold, he approaches, says the Lord of hosts. (2) And who will be able to consider the day of his advent, and who will stand firm in order to see him? For he is like a refining fire, and like the fuller"s herb. (3) And he will sit refining and cleansing the silver, and he will purge the sons of Levi, and he will gather them like gold and like silver, and they will offer sacrifices to the Lord in justice. (4) And the sacrifice of Judah and of Jerusalem will please the Lord, just as in the days of past generations, and as in the ancient years. (5) And I will approach you in judgment, and I will be a swift witness against evil-doers, and adulterers, and perjurers, and those who cheat the hired hand in his wages, the widows and the orphans, and who oppress the traveller, and who have not feared me, says the Lord of hosts.

(6) For I am the Lord, and I do not change. And you, the sons of Jacob, have not been consumed. (7) For, from the days of your fathers, you have withdrawn from my ordinances and have not kept them. Return to me, and I will return to you, says the Lord of hosts. And you have said, "In what way, shall we return?" (8) If a man will afflict God, then you greatly afflict me. And you have said, "In what way, do we afflict you?" In tithes and in first-fruits. (9) And you have been cursed with privation, and you greatly afflict me, even your entire people. (10) Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, and let there be food in my house. And test me about this, says the Lord, as to whether I will not open to you the floodgates of heaven, and pour out to you a blessing, all the way to abundance. (11) And I will rebuke for your sakes the devourer, and he will not corrupt the fruit of your land. Neither will the vine in the field be barren, says the Lord of hosts. (12) And all nations will call you blessed. For you will be a desirable land, says the Lord of hosts.

Verses 1-5 are about the coming of Jehovah's servant. Most Christians take this to be a prophecy about the advent of the Lord Jesus Christ. It speaks of the refining (by fire) of the faithful of Israel at the advent of the Lord's messenger. They are likened to gold and to silver refined by fire. The passage also peaks of the swift judgement of the Lord against evil-doers. No tithe is mentioned here yet the idea of gold and silver being offered to the Lord is present and the offering in question is the faithful of Israel rather than their money.

Verses 6-12 are about the faults and sins of the Israelites around the time of their return to Judea after the exile. The Cambridge Bible Commentary explains the verses thus:
Malachi 3:6
For I am the Lord, I change not] Rather: For I, the Lord, change not: therefore (lit. and) ye, sons of Jacob, are not consumed. The unchangeableness of Him, whose name, Jehovah, “I am,” is the exponent of His nature, is appealed to as the ground (“for”) of His dealings with Israel. He changes not in His promises and purposes of grace (Rom_11:29); therefore, in spite of their rebellions and provocations, the sons of Jacob are still preserved. It is the same argument that is expanded in Psalm 89:28-37.

Malachi 3:7
Ch. Mal 3:7 to Mal 4:3. Renewed Rebukes, Threatenings and Promises
Ch. Mal 3:7-12. Rebuke in the matter of Tithes and Offerings
7. Even from the days of your fathers] Omit even, with R.V. The connection with Mal 3:6 is well given by Pusey: “Back to those days and from them, ye are gone away from My ordinances. ‘I am not changed from good; ye are not changed from evil. I am unchangeable in holiness; ye are unchangeable in perversity.’*”
gone away] Rather, turned aside, R.V., as the same word is translated elsewhere, e.g. Deut 17:20; Deut 28:14; Jos 23:6; and with the metaphor completed, turned aside from the way, Exo 32:8; Deut 9:12.
Return unto me] Comp. Zec 1:3, where the word (turn, A.V.) is the same.

Malachi 3:8
ye have robbed] Rather, rob; lit. are robbing: it is still going on.
tithes] By the Law of Moses (1) “the tenth of all produce, as well as of flocks and cattle, belongs to Jehovah and must be offered to Him” (Lev 27:30; Lev 27:32); and (2) this tenth is “assigned to the Levites as the reward of their services” (Num 18:21; Num 18:24). Nehemiah in his day had to deal once and again with the evil here rebuked. Notwithstanding the “sure covenant” into which they had entered (Neh 9:38 with Neh 10:32-39), he had occasion, on his return to Jerusalem after an absence of a few years, to reform them again in this very particular (Neh 13:10-14).

Malachi 3:9
a curse] Rather, the curse. The threatened curse has already fallen upon you. See ch. Mal 2:2 with Mal 3:11.
have robbed] Rather rob, as in Mal 3:8.
The pronouns in the Hebrew are emphatic: Me ye are robbing. And the evil is not confined to the priests (ch. Mal 1:6-8; Mal 1:12-14), but extends to “the whole nation”.

Malachi 3:10
all the tithes] More exactly, the whole tithe, R. V. Cf. Deut 26:12.
the storehouse] This may have been the “great chamber”, or “lean to”, surrounding the second Temple on three sides, and consisting of three stories, each containing several rooms, which had been perverted from its original purpose as a receptacle of the tithes and offerings, and assigned by the High-priest to Tobiah, but which Nehemiah had restored to its proper use again (Neh 10:38; Neh 13:5-9; Neh 13:12-13). It is not improbable that the “chambers”, which abutted to the height of three stories on the walls of Solomon’s Temple, were intended in like manner for storehouses (1Ki_6:5-6). In the great Reformation under Hezekiah such chambers were “prepared”, either built or restored, in some part of the Temple area, to receive the enormous influx of tithes and offerings (2Ch 31:11-12).
meat] The Hebrew word properly means “prey”, or “booty”. It has, however, the same meaning of “food” as here in Pro 31:15 (comp. Pro 30:8 for the verb in the same sense), and in Psa 111:5.
the windows of heaven] Comp. Gen 7:11; Gen 8:2; 2Ki 7:2; 2Ki 7:19.
that there shall not be room enough to receive it] Heb. till not enough. The ellipsis has been supplied in various ways: “till there be not (barely) enough, but much more than enough, i.e. abundance”; or “till there be no longer sufficiency with Me, or, as that can never be, in boundless measure”. The rendering, however, of A.V. and R.V., is the simplest and most satisfactory.
The history of the Jews in the time of Hezekiah had already afforded an example of the reward of faithful obedience, in the matter of tithes and offerings, in overflowing abundance bestowed upon them by God. 2Ch 31:10.

Malachi 3:11
the devourer] lit. eater, i.e. any insect, especially the locust, that would devour the fruits of the earth. The same verb is used of the ravages of four insects, “probably different kinds of locusts, or locusts in different stages of growth” (R.V. marginal note), Joe 1:4.
The threatened curse was the “rebuke” (ch. Mal 2:3, note) of the seed: the promised blessing is the “rebuke” of the devourer.
cast her fruit before the time] lit. miscarry. Comp. “a miscarrying womb”, Hos 9:14; “miscarrying ground”, 2Ki 2:19; 2Ki 2:21. So Pliny speaks of “arborum abortus”. (Pusey after Gesen.) In Rev 6:13 we read: “the stars of the heaven fall unto the earth, as a fig tree casteth her unripe figs, when she is shaken of a great wind.”

Malachi 3:12
call you blessed] or happy, R.V., as in Mal_3:15. μακαριοῦσιν ὑμᾶς, LXX. Comp. μακαριοῦσι με, Luk 1:48, and Jas 5:11.
If you have the patience to read the comments then they make it apparent that the provisions invoked in the passage are Mosaic laws intended for Israel. You may wish to live under the provisions of Deut 26:12 and all the other passages about tithes but I can't hep but think that you do not want to follow all the provisions of the law so why single out this one? Why say that "we are to tithe" and not also say that "we are to offer the first fruits to God" and "we are to abstain from blood and unclean foods"?
Like tithes uit is a choice of tyhe individual between him and God. I do followthiose as well. my tithe is my first fruits and when I had a garden I gace the furst fruits away, I also do not eat blood
 

MoreCoffee

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Like tithes but is a choice of the individual between him and God. I do follow those as well. my tithe is my first fruits and when I had a garden I gave the first fruits away, I also do not eat blood

Since it is a choice and a matter between the individual and God then it is not a case of "we are to tithe" is it?
 

pinacled

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Generosity to the poor and needy is not in question. The tithe that people typically pay is paid into their meeting's general funds and what becomes of it after that is up to the people who look after church finances. A lot will go to wages some to building maintenance, a lot of mortgages, some to missions, maybe some to the poor or to helping needy people in the meeting. Tithe or no tithe these matters are taken care of by every sort of denomination, meeting, and church. My own Church does not demand a tithe yet Catholic charities abound and many in poor nations and the poor in many rich nations benefit from these charities and all without a tithe requirement because the Church building is not a temple and the pastors are not a tribe.

Malachi says this:
Malachi 3:1-12 (1) Behold, I send my angel, and he will prepare the way before my face. And presently the Sovereign, whom you seek, and the angel of testimony, whom you desire, will arrive at his temple. Behold, he approaches, says the Lord of hosts. (2) And who will be able to consider the day of his advent, and who will stand firm in order to see him? For he is like a refining fire, and like the fuller"s herb. (3) And he will sit refining and cleansing the silver, and he will purge the sons of Levi, and he will gather them like gold and like silver, and they will offer sacrifices to the Lord in justice. (4) And the sacrifice of Judah and of Jerusalem will please the Lord, just as in the days of past generations, and as in the ancient years. (5) And I will approach you in judgment, and I will be a swift witness against evil-doers, and adulterers, and perjurers, and those who cheat the hired hand in his wages, the widows and the orphans, and who oppress the traveller, and who have not feared me, says the Lord of hosts.

(6) For I am the Lord, and I do not change. And you, the sons of Jacob, have not been consumed. (7) For, from the days of your fathers, you have withdrawn from my ordinances and have not kept them. Return to me, and I will return to you, says the Lord of hosts. And you have said, "In what way, shall we return?" (8) If a man will afflict God, then you greatly afflict me. And you have said, "In what way, do we afflict you?" In tithes and in first-fruits. (9) And you have been cursed with privation, and you greatly afflict me, even your entire people. (10) Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, and let there be food in my house. And test me about this, says the Lord, as to whether I will not open to you the floodgates of heaven, and pour out to you a blessing, all the way to abundance. (11) And I will rebuke for your sakes the devourer, and he will not corrupt the fruit of your land. Neither will the vine in the field be barren, says the Lord of hosts. (12) And all nations will call you blessed. For you will be a desirable land, says the Lord of hosts.

Verses 1-5 are about the coming of Jehovah's servant. Most Christians take this to be a prophecy about the advent of the Lord Jesus Christ. It speaks of the refining (by fire) of the faithful of Israel at the advent of the Lord's messenger. They are likened to gold and to silver refined by fire. The passage also peaks of the swift judgement of the Lord against evil-doers. No tithe is mentioned here yet the idea of gold and silver being offered to the Lord is present and the offering in question is the faithful of Israel rather than their money.

Verses 6-12 are about the faults and sins of the Israelites around the time of their return to Judea after the exile. The Cambridge Bible Commentary explains the verses thus:
Malachi 3:6
For I am the Lord, I change not] Rather: For I, the Lord, change not: therefore (lit. and) ye, sons of Jacob, are not consumed. The unchangeableness of Him, whose name, Jehovah, “I am,” is the exponent of His nature, is appealed to as the ground (“for”) of His dealings with Israel. He changes not in His promises and purposes of grace (Rom_11:29); therefore, in spite of their rebellions and provocations, the sons of Jacob are still preserved. It is the same argument that is expanded in Psalm 89:28-37.

Malachi 3:7
Ch. Mal 3:7 to Mal 4:3. Renewed Rebukes, Threatenings and Promises
Ch. Mal 3:7-12. Rebuke in the matter of Tithes and Offerings
7. Even from the days of your fathers] Omit even, with R.V. The connection with Mal 3:6 is well given by Pusey: “Back to those days and from them, ye are gone away from My ordinances. ‘I am not changed from good; ye are not changed from evil. I am unchangeable in holiness; ye are unchangeable in perversity.’*”
gone away] Rather, turned aside, R.V., as the same word is translated elsewhere, e.g. Deut 17:20; Deut 28:14; Jos 23:6; and with the metaphor completed, turned aside from the way, Exo 32:8; Deut 9:12.
Return unto me] Comp. Zec 1:3, where the word (turn, A.V.) is the same.

Malachi 3:8
ye have robbed] Rather, rob; lit. are robbing: it is still going on.
tithes] By the Law of Moses (1) “the tenth of all produce, as well as of flocks and cattle, belongs to Jehovah and must be offered to Him” (Lev 27:30; Lev 27:32); and (2) this tenth is “assigned to the Levites as the reward of their services” (Num 18:21; Num 18:24). Nehemiah in his day had to deal once and again with the evil here rebuked. Notwithstanding the “sure covenant” into which they had entered (Neh 9:38 with Neh 10:32-39), he had occasion, on his return to Jerusalem after an absence of a few years, to reform them again in this very particular (Neh 13:10-14).

Malachi 3:9
a curse] Rather, the curse. The threatened curse has already fallen upon you. See ch. Mal 2:2 with Mal 3:11.
have robbed] Rather rob, as in Mal 3:8.
The pronouns in the Hebrew are emphatic: Me ye are robbing. And the evil is not confined to the priests (ch. Mal 1:6-8; Mal 1:12-14), but extends to “the whole nation”.

Malachi 3:10
all the tithes] More exactly, the whole tithe, R. V. Cf. Deut 26:12.
the storehouse] This may have been the “great chamber”, or “lean to”, surrounding the second Temple on three sides, and consisting of three stories, each containing several rooms, which had been perverted from its original purpose as a receptacle of the tithes and offerings, and assigned by the High-priest to Tobiah, but which Nehemiah had restored to its proper use again (Neh 10:38; Neh 13:5-9; Neh 13:12-13). It is not improbable that the “chambers”, which abutted to the height of three stories on the walls of Solomon’s Temple, were intended in like manner for storehouses (1Ki_6:5-6). In the great Reformation under Hezekiah such chambers were “prepared”, either built or restored, in some part of the Temple area, to receive the enormous influx of tithes and offerings (2Ch 31:11-12).
meat] The Hebrew word properly means “prey”, or “booty”. It has, however, the same meaning of “food” as here in Pro 31:15 (comp. Pro 30:8 for the verb in the same sense), and in Psa 111:5.
the windows of heaven] Comp. Gen 7:11; Gen 8:2; 2Ki 7:2; 2Ki 7:19.
that there shall not be room enough to receive it] Heb. till not enough. The ellipsis has been supplied in various ways: “till there be not (barely) enough, but much more than enough, i.e. abundance”; or “till there be no longer sufficiency with Me, or, as that can never be, in boundless measure”. The rendering, however, of A.V. and R.V., is the simplest and most satisfactory.
The history of the Jews in the time of Hezekiah had already afforded an example of the reward of faithful obedience, in the matter of tithes and offerings, in overflowing abundance bestowed upon them by God. 2Ch 31:10.

Malachi 3:11
the devourer] lit. eater, i.e. any insect, especially the locust, that would devour the fruits of the earth. The same verb is used of the ravages of four insects, “probably different kinds of locusts, or locusts in different stages of growth” (R.V. marginal note), Joe 1:4.
The threatened curse was the “rebuke” (ch. Mal 2:3, note) of the seed: the promised blessing is the “rebuke” of the devourer.
cast her fruit before the time] lit. miscarry. Comp. “a miscarrying womb”, Hos 9:14; “miscarrying ground”, 2Ki 2:19; 2Ki 2:21. So Pliny speaks of “arborum abortus”. (Pusey after Gesen.) In Rev 6:13 we read: “the stars of the heaven fall unto the earth, as a fig tree casteth her unripe figs, when she is shaken of a great wind.”

Malachi 3:12
call you blessed] or happy, R.V., as in Mal_3:15. μακαριοῦσιν ὑμᾶς, LXX. Comp. μακαριοῦσι με, Luk 1:48, and Jas 5:11.
If you have the patience to read the comments then they make it apparent that the provisions invoked in the passage are Mosaic laws intended for Israel. You may wish to live under the provisions of Deut 26:12 and all the other passages about tithes but I can't hep but think that you do not want to follow all the provisions of the law so why single out this one? Why say that "we are to tithe" and not also say that "we are to offer the first fruits to God" and "we are to abstain from blood and unclean foods"?

Provisions for Israel.
If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

16And those who will walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.
 

MoreCoffee

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Provisions for Israel.
If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

16And those who will walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.

Abraham's seed was more than Israel, his sons were Isaac and Jacob and Isaac had more than one son.
 

pinacled

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Abraham's seed was more than Israel, his sons were Isaac and Jacob and Isaac had more than one son.

Isaac had more than one Son.
And what does our Lord say about Esau?
Even Paul spoke about this.
 

psalms 91

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Since it is a choice and a matter between the individual and God then it is not a case of "we are to tithe" is it?
Actually accordi ng to malichio it is unless you like curses but hey each to their own
 

MoreCoffee

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tango

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It is that simple, if you choose not to that is between you and Hod

But if you say "we are to tithe" as a universal mandate you really need something a bit more than "it is that simple". Maybe an appeal to Scripture might be useful?
 

tango

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Actually accordi ng to malichio it is unless you like curses but hey each to their own

How would you reconcile that with what Paul wrote about how each should give as he purposes in his heart?

2Co 9:6-7 NKJV But this I say: He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. (7) So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.

The trouble with a tithe in the literal sense of insisting on 10% is that is crushes the poorest while giving the richest a break. If you're trying to feed a family of four on an annual income of $10,000 you'll be struggling enough without someone beating you for not giving a full $1,000 of it every year. But if you're a single person making $1,000,000 the chances are you can give $100,000 and barely notice it's gone.
 

Hebrews 11

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The first question to ask is, do we toss the entire old testament away?

What we know in and through Christ ,is that we were delivered from the curse of the law,Galatians 3:13 and have a better covenant by Grace through faith.
For me I believe the entire Bible ,and the tithe was established before the law that we were redeemed from.
There is no exclusion from tithes, it began we Abraham, continued with Jacob and is a firmed in Malachi.
Paul teaches in the Epistles about how to conduct the collection for the Saints,and our Lord mentioned the Widows offering in the temple honoring her because she gave all.
So I know we see giving tithes in the New Testament, but even still it is in the Old Testament.

2 Timothy: 3. 14. But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15. And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17. That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


Now hears one small detail: A person may say I give to God but through other outreach and charity.
Good for you!
This is a noble thing to do but it shines the glory on you rather than God.
You Give your tithes in secret at your local Church and God is glorified.
You give love offerings in secret and God is Glorified.

God loves a cheerful giver and when you give in secret he will reward you openly.

Unless you want everyone to hear how good you are.
 

tango

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The first question to ask is, do we toss the entire old testament away?

Not at all. If I recall the tithe originally related to produce rather than to money. People would give their tithe of their produce to the priests who would use it for their own purposes and to distribute to anyone in need. When the priests aren't allowed to work other than as priests they still need to eat. In our modern culture our ministers are allowed to take secular jobs (and some do). Of course if we want the minister to work for the church full-time he has to be paid and if we want a big church building it has to be funded somehow but a slavish insistence on 10% of our financial income really misses the point in so many ways. It crushes the poor while giving the rich a pass.

What we know in and through Christ ,is that we were delivered from the curse of the law,Galatians 3:13 and have a better covenant by Grace through faith.
For me I believe the entire Bible ,and the tithe was established before the law that we were redeemed from.
There is no exclusion from tithes, it began we Abraham, continued with Jacob and is a firmed in Malachi.
Paul teaches in the Epistles about how to conduct the collection for the Saints,and our Lord mentioned the Widows offering in the temple honoring her because she gave all.
So I know we see giving tithes in the New Testament, but even still it is in the Old Testament.

In the OT we see a strict system of tithing produce; in the NT we see Paul teaching us to give as we purpose in our hearts.

2 Timothy: 3. 14. But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15. And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17. That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Sure, but if you want to play that card you have to avoid eating pork, you have to avoid wearing clothes of mixed fibers and so on.

Now hears one small detail: A person may say I give to God but through other outreach and charity.
Good for you!
This is a noble thing to do but it shines the glory on you rather than God.
You Give your tithes in secret at your local Church and God is glorified.
You give love offerings in secret and God is Glorified.

God loves a cheerful giver and when you give in secret he will reward you openly.

Unless you want everyone to hear how good you are.

Can't we do charitable outreach in ways that don't draw attention to ourselves? What about the person who sweeps the floor in church after each service? They can get on with keeping the church premises clean and tidy without making a big show of it. At my last church the lady who cleaned the toilets never made a big show of her service. At my current church I don't even know who does that sort of thing, I just see that it is done. At my last church there were a few things I did to help oil the wheels and nobody realised just what I was doing until I was preparing to move away from the area and had to hand it over to others. I never felt the need to make a big show of anything - it related to things I find straightforward and mostly enjoyable so I didn't expect to get credit for it. But handing it over meant teaching other people who didn't necessarily find it so simple, nor was it the sort of thing they'd necessarily enjoy doing.

But then of course it's possible to give through outreach and charity without even mentioning it. "I give through charity" could mean "I gave $1 to the Salvation Army guy with the bell outside Wally World", it could mean "I work unpaid for four days a week", it could mean anything in between.
 

Hebrews 11

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This is a dead horse topic,as always someone says back then it was produced and goats.
Well sure it was it was not fairy dust.
People used different means for commerce early on,a tenth of your first fruits means what?
Using the verse in Timothy is not playing a card,it is truth.
God has redeemed us from the law,but we do not toss out the books the gave the law.
The law could not be kept man would always go back to his sin nature.
It's about obedience to God and relative to 2nd Timothy we have a example :

Deuteronomy: 30. 19. I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: 20. That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

Tell me this does not apply today.

As far as your giving that's between you and the Lord.

I'm not wasting my time trying to convince anyone I offer what is in the Bible and if we do not agree then who cares.

There are more pressing issues today than holding on to ten percent of produce or money,God doesn't need your money he needs your heart.
 

tango

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This is a dead horse topic,as always someone says back then it was produced and goats.
Well sure it was it was not fairy dust.
People used different means for commerce early on,a tenth of your first fruits means what?

When one of the twelve tribes were priests and not allowed to work in conventional jobs they still had to eat.

If there are 12 tribes and 11 of them are working, the members of the 11 tribes give 10% to the 12th tribe then, assuming all things are equal (which they aren't but it kinda works for demonstration) you've got 11 tribes with 90% of a tribe's produce and one tribe with 110% of a tribe's produce. Since it's clearly possible to live on 90% the tribe with the 110% should have enough to provide for themselves plus a further 20% to distribute to people who may have specific needs.

Now there's nothing to stop the church minister taking a secular job, or marrying someone with a secular job, and so on.

Using the verse in Timothy is not playing a card,it is truth.

As are the verses in Leviticus that prohibit eating pork and shellfish, wearing clothes of mixed fibers and the like. Don't those verses count as part of Scripture and therefore useful for rebuke and teaching and those good things? Or does only part of Scripture count under the "All Scripture" of the verse in Timothy?

God has redeemed us from the law,but we do not toss out the books the gave the law.
The law could not be kept man would always go back to his sin nature.
It's about obedience to God and relative to 2nd Timothy we have a example :

Deuteronomy: 30. 19. I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: 20. That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

Tell me this does not apply today.

I'm not sure what that verse has to do with the topic of tithing.

As far as your giving that's between you and the Lord.

I'm not wasting my time trying to convince anyone I offer what is in the Bible and if we do not agree then who cares.

There are more pressing issues today than holding on to ten percent of produce or money,God doesn't need your money he needs your heart.

Offering what's in the Bible typically needs more than simply quoting a verse as if it were the beginning and end of the matter. As we've seen in this thread alone there are a number of viewpoints that conflict that all appeal to Scripture.
 

Hebrews 11

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It does not apply today.

1 Corinthians: 9. 13. Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the alter are partakers with the alter? 14. Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

How does the Bishops Priest,and Pope live off of fairy dust?

Or does money fall from Heaven?

Or is God a counterfeiter?
 

Hebrews 11

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When one of the twelve tribes were priests and not allowed to work in conventional jobs they still had to eat.


If there are 12 tribes and 11 of them are working, the members of the 11 tribes give 10% to the 12th tribe then, assuming all things are equal (which they aren't but it kinda works for demonstration) you've got 11 tribes with 90% of a tribe's produce and one tribe with 110% of a tribe's produce. Since it's clearly possible to live on 90% the tribe with the 110% should have enough to provide for themselves plus a further 20% to distribute to people who may have specific needs.

Now there's nothing to stop the church minister taking a secular job, or marrying someone with a secular job, and so on.



As are the verses in Leviticus that prohibit eating pork and shellfish, wearing clothes of mixed fibers and the like. Don't those verses count as part of Scripture and therefore useful for rebuke and teaching and those good things? Or does only part of Scripture count under the "All Scripture" of the verse in Timothy?



I'm not sure what that verse has to do with the topic of tithing.



Offering what's in the Bible typically needs more than simply quoting a verse as if it were the beginning and end of the matter. As we've seen in this thread alone there are a number of viewpoints that conflict that all appeal to Scripture.

What we're the conventional jobs of the Priest of the Temple?

Share Croppers,Butchers what?
 

Hebrews 11

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Once again so it sinks in,Pastors are not called to work secular Jobs.

They are not giving their best to the work of the ministry if they are at Walmart greeting people.
1 Corinthians: 9. 13. Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the alter are partakers with the alter? 14. Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
 

Hebrews 11

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Once again the tithe was not established with its origin in the law of Moses.

First mentioned Abraham

Second mentioned Jacob at Bethel.

It has nothing to do with the saniantary ordnance of Leviticus.
It makes for a good straw man though.
 
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