Do you believe Persecution will come to America

[psalms 91]

Personally I think it is just a matter of time

 

[Lamb]

We're already being bullied by the masses who do not agree with biblical standards.

 

[psalms 91]

True but I am thinking of people losing their life for their faith or going to jail for it.

 

[ValleyGal]

There was a news item going around about a couple who owned a bakery. They had served anyone who came into their doors until a couple of regulars wanted to buy a wedding cake. The customers were lesbian, and the bakers politely declined to make their cake. All they were doing is practicing their freedom of religious beliefs. Innocent enough, right? Evidently this went to court and now the bakers owe $150,000 in damages. Evidently, "religious freedoms" do not extend to your place of business. And when the rights of one party are violated by the rights of the other party, whose rights should take precedence? A "fair" judge who respected everyone's human rights might have suggested the couple simply find another bakery.

Yes, persecution has started in the west, and it will only get worse. Today it was $150,000 penalty for practicing religious freedom; in a few years, it might constitute jail time.....not to mention the threat of ISIS, which, imo, is a very real threat.

 

[psalms 91]

There was a news item going around about a couple who owned a bakery. They had served anyone who came into their doors until a couple of regulars wanted to buy a wedding cake. The customers were lesbian, and the bakers politely declined to make their cake. All they were doing is practicing their freedom of religious beliefs. Innocent enough, right? Evidently this went to court and now the bakers owe $150,000 in damages. Evidently, "religious freedoms" do not extend to your place of business. And when the rights of one party are violated by the rights of the other party, whose rights should take precedence? A "fair" judge who respected everyone's human rights might have suggested the couple simply find another bakery.

Yes, persecution has started in the west, and it will only get worse. Today it was $150,000 penalty for practicing religious freedom; in a few years, it might constitute jail time.....not to mention the threat of ISIS, which, imo, is a very real threat.

Totally agree with this completely

 

[Ruth]

My answer to the question is I don't know. It was not on the poll. I don't see any persecution here in the states. I do see persecution of other groups here by Christians, though, as in the example of the bakery store.

 

[brinny]

Personally I think it is just a matter of time

yup.

 

[Lamb]

True but I am thinking of people losing their life for their faith or going to jail for it.

I can really see the jail sentence being a reality very soon. People take offense to Christian beliefs (even some Christians!).

 

[brinny]

^ i agree....

 

[NewCreation435]

yes, I think it will probably happen.

 

[tango]

Reading the Revelation I don't see any option other than for it to happen sooner or later. Rev 13 is clear that "all who dwell on the earth shall worship him" (except the ones written in the Book of Life). I don't see any exceptions for people just because they live on one bit of rock rather than another.

 

[psalms 91]

I agree

 

[dogs4thewin]

I can really see the jail sentence being a reality very soon. People take offense to Christian beliefs (even some Christians!).

What I would wonder is whether or not OTHER rights would apply; since inmates have rights under the 8th amendment legally anyway, there is only so much they can do. Yes I do believe it is coming.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Reading the Revelation I don't see any option other than for it to happen sooner or later. Rev 13 is clear that "all who dwell on the earth shall worship him" (except the ones written in the Book of Life). I don't see any exceptions for people just because they live on one bit of rock rather than another.

I think the OP was asking though will there come a time when being a Christian will cost you more than just not being comfortable; basically will we lose freedom of religion and not just have PEOPLE but rather the government judging us.

 

[tango]

I think the OP was asking though will there come a time when being a Christian will cost you more than just not being comfortable; basically will we lose freedom of religion and not just have PEOPLE but rather the government judging us.

I realise that, hence I was saying it has to come sooner or later. Now there are times when standing on Christian principles is inconvenient and sometimes involves a financial cost. Sooner or later we'll have the choice to deny Christ or die.

The only question is whether that decision is one we have to face before our natural death.

 

[MarkFL]

When I think of persecution of Christians in the U.S., I can't help but laugh at the notion of the 80% majority feeling bullied or persecuted. What constitutes bullying? Those of us who wish for the separation of church and state as devised in the constitution to be upheld? The removal of the divisive "under God" added during the cold war to the pledge of allegiance?

It really puts me in mind of the way the white majority felt when the civil rights movement came about. The white majority felt persecuted because the status quo was being challenged, which had always worked so well for them, because it catered to their every whim.

People should of course be allowed to worship, or not, as they see fit. But we need to push religion and religious notions back and out of places it has no business being. Unfortunately, what is healthy for the whole will be seen as persecution by those who historically have been allowed to run roughshod over everyone else.

 

[tango]

When I think of persecution of Christians in the U.S., I can't help but laugh at the notion of the 80% majority feeling bullied or persecuted. What constitutes bullying? Those of us who wish for the separation of church and state as devised in the constitution to be upheld? The removal of the divisive "under God" added during the cold war to the pledge of allegiance?

It really puts me in mind of the way the white majority felt when the civil rights movement came about. The white majority felt persecuted because the status quo was being challenged, which had always worked so well for them, because it catered to their every whim.

People should of course be allowed to worship, or not, as they see fit. But we need to push religion and religious notions back and out of places it has no business being. Unfortunately, what is healthy for the whole will be seen as persecution by those who historically have been allowed to run roughshod over everyone else.

I wouldn't worry too much about the idea of "the 80% majority" given that I often get the impression people describe themselves as "Christian" even if they only ever set foot in church at Christmas and Easter, and the only time they either pray or read the Bible is during the service at Christmas or Easter.

I agree 100% that it's pretty sad to look at Christians in other nations who get the choice between converting to Islam Right Now or execution in front of their families Right Now, and then see someone claiming they are being persecuted because someone teases them for wearing a cross on their necklace.

I've had a few interesting discussions with people recently on topics relating to the interaction between church and state (gay marriage being an obvious current issue), and the recurring theme is that since the church has historically got into bed with the state it shouldn't complain when the state changes the rules. As the saying goes, if you dine with the devil you'd best sup with a long spoon. I find it quite distasteful, and from your post I suspect you do too (but do correct me if I'm wrong), to see people expecting their faith to be imposed on people whether they like it or not but are very quick to cry foul when someone else tries to impose their faith.

 

[MarkFL]

I wouldn't worry too much about the idea of "the 80% majority" given that I often get the impression people describe themselves as "Christian" even if they only ever set foot in church at Christmas and Easter, and the only time they either pray or read the Bible is during the service at Christmas or Easter....

I would agree that the majority of those who identify themselves as Christian are not devout, however, I am quite saddened and disturbed when find I that my own school district has voted to teach the supernatural in biology classes because of an inherent opposition to science that contradicts their beliefs. Science will get nowhere fast when the supernatural is called upon to explain anything.

Many people may not actively practice their faith much, but they vote by and large by the belief system with which they identify rather than by weighing the facts, out of blind reflexive ignorance. There is a senator here in Florida who recently asked, "If man evolved from apes, then why are there still apes?" This shows a man in power who doesn't have the slightest clue about that which he so vociferously opposes and votes to weaken in the classroom. This is simply staggering to me.

...I find it quite distasteful, and from your post I suspect you do too (but do correct me if I'm wrong), to see people expecting their faith to be imposed on people whether they like it or not but are very quick to cry foul when someone else tries to impose their faith.

Yes, I think faith should never be imposed on anyone at any time. People should be free to express their own faith, and to allow others to do the same, even if it is not the same faith.

 

[tango]

I would agree that the majority of those who identify themselves as Christian are not devout, however, I am quite saddened and disturbed when find I that my own school district has voted to teach the supernatural in biology classes because of an inherent opposition to science that contradicts their beliefs. Science will get nowhere fast when the supernatural is called upon to explain anything.

Up to a point what is currently considered "supernatural" may be explained by science and thereby become "natural". The example that comes to mind is Halley's Comet, which was once believed to be a bad omen but is now known to be a lump of rock and ice that flies around space really fast.

Many people may not actively practice their faith much, but they vote by and large by the belief system with which they identify rather than by weighing the facts, out of blind reflexive ignorance. There is a senator here in Florida who recently asked, "If man evolved from apes, then why are there still apes?" This shows a man in power who doesn't have the slightest clue about that which he so vociferously opposes and votes to weaken in the classroom. This is simply staggering to me.

I have major reservations about evolution but find that kind of argument really rather annoying. Arguments like "why are there still apes?" or, as I heard a few years back, "if you throw a pile of sticks together, how long before it become a chair?" just seek to trivialise a discussion and silence opposition with one-liners and soundbites.

Yes, I think faith should never be imposed on anyone at any time. People should be free to express their own faith, and to allow others to do the same, even if it is not the same faith.

Can't argue with that, at least insofar as the interaction between church and state is concerned. I'd fully accept the right of a religious establishment to remove people trying to use it for other purposes - I wouldn't want to see Muslims walking into a church during the service to pray to Allah, or Christians seeking to hold a prayer meeting in the middle of a Hindu temple during their time of worship or similar.

 

[psalms 91]

I wouldn't worry too much about the idea of "the 80% majority" given that I often get the impression people describe themselves as "Christian" even if they only ever set foot in church at Christmas and Easter, and the only time they either pray or read the Bible is during the service at Christmas or Easter.

I agree 100% that it's pretty sad to look at Christians in other nations who get the choice between converting to Islam Right Now or execution in front of their families Right Now, and then see someone claiming they are being persecuted because someone teases them for wearing a cross on their necklace.

I've had a few interesting discussions with people recently on topics relating to the interaction between church and state (gay marriage being an obvious current issue), and the recurring theme is that since the church has historically got into bed with the state it shouldn't complain when the state changes the rules. As the saying goes, if you dine with the devil you'd best sup with a long spoon. I find it quite distasteful, and from your post I suspect you do too (but do correct me if I'm wrong), to see people expecting their faith to be imposed on people whether they like it or not but are very quick to cry foul when someone else tries to impose their faith.

Or else elect those who make the rules, hmmm? Of course this wont happen as the more God is removed from us the closer we get to this country going down and it has to, abortion alone says we have to