Do you believe God works through means?

[Lamb]

As a Lutheran, I believe and see evidence in both the Old and New Testaments that God works through earthly means and attaches His Word to those means.

Where I see people talking about obedience, I see instead God at work because He made a promise and man can't take the credit for God's work.

Do you believe God works through means?

 

[psalms 91]

I believe that God is present in everything and uses natural thingsa to guide people and accomplish His will

 

[Brighten04]

As a Lutheran, I believe and see evidence in both the Old and New Testaments that God works through earthly means and attaches His Word to those means.

Where I see people talking about obedience, I see instead God at work because He made a promise and man can't take the credit for God's work.

Do you believe God works through means?

It means just that.Our Father can work through many things. Man will always try to take credit for our Father's work. Our Father causes the rain to fall and the sun to shine on the just and the unjust alike, but not many give him praise and thanks for doing it. Our Father is always working through any means He chooses.

 

[Josiah]

As a Lutheran, I believe and see evidence in both the Old and New Testaments that God works through earthly means and attaches His Word to those means.

Where I see people talking about obedience, I see instead God at work because He made a promise and man can't take the credit for God's work.

Do you believe God works through means?

NORMALLY, yes (not that He is limited to such or that such is ALWAYS the case). I believe He CAN work immediately (without means) but it seems rarely does.

Lutherans, Reformed, Anglicans/Episcopalians, Orthodox and Catholic Christians (probably 90% of Christians) refer to such as "the Means of Grace." One referred to such as, "tools in the hands of the Carpenter." Normally, a carpenter uses tools to build things... the tools are impotent in and of themselves, but in the hands of the carpenter able to accomplish wonders.



Thank you.


Pax


- Josiah

 

[Ruth]

I believe God works through many means including people. People who have the holy spirit in them he mostly works through IMHO.

 

[Lamb]

For those who agree that God works through means, what prevents you from seeing how He works through Baptism and the Lords Supper?

 

[TurtleHare]

NORMALLY, yes (not that He is limited to such or that such is ALWAYS the case). I believe He CAN work immediately (without means) but it seems rarely does.

Lutherans, Reformed, Anglicans/Episcopalians, Orthodox and Catholic Christians (probably 90% of Christians) refer to such as "the Means of Grace." One referred to such as, "tools in the hands of the Carpenter." Normally, a carpenter uses tools to build things... the tools are impotent in and of themselves, but in the hands of the carpenter able to accomplish wonders.



Thank you.


Pax


- Josiah

This is along the lines of what I believe and how I see God working when I read His Word and as much as we should be giving God all that glory I see people taking up his glory and patting themselves on the back for His accomplishments.

 

[Pedrito]

Does God work through means?

It depends on what that means. (Serious pun intended.)

Communists used to recruit susceptible people by asking them if they believed in world peace. The answer was almost always yes. The communists said they believed in that too. Their definition of “peace” was different, however. Their definition of “world peace” was every country being ruled by communism.

There are other examples of deceptive definitions, but one is enough to set the tone.

In this thread we see a general question asked (Post #1) , one which begs the obvious general answer, “Yes, God does work through means.”

And then we see that general affirmative applied out of context (Post #6) to two particular rites practiced and ascribed particular empowerment by some ritualistic churches – infant baptism and what might be termed the memorial of Jesus' death. The general affirmative to the general question is being used to give credence to the notion that God works in some special (supernatural) way through those two particular practices.

The association is without foundation, and its employment therefore lacks integrity.

I suggest it would behoove us to stick to Scriptural principles, and forgo the human “wisdom” that pervades so much “Christian” doctrine and practice.

 

[psalms 91]

Does God work through means?

It depends on what that means. (Serious pun intended.)

Communists used to recruit susceptible people by asking them if they believed in world peace. The answer was almost always yes. The communists said they believed in that too. Their definition of “peace” was different, however. Their definition of “world peace” was every country being ruled by communism.

There are other examples of deceptive definitions, but one is enough to set the tone.

In this thread we see a general question asked (Post #1) , one which begs the obvious general answer, “Yes, God does work through means.”

And then we see that general affirmative applied out of context (Post #6) to two particular rites practiced and ascribed particular empowerment by some ritualistic churches – infant baptism and what might be termed the memorial of Jesus' death. The general affirmative to the general question is being used to give credence to the notion that God works in some special (supernatural) way through those two particular practices.

The association is without foundation, and its employment therefore lacks integrity.

I suggest it would behoove us to stick to Scriptural principles, and forgo the human “wisdom” that pervades so much “Christian” doctrine and practice.

Here here, you are so right but most of the church rejects that

 

[Brighten04]

For those who agree that God works through means, what prevents you from seeing how He works through Baptism and the Lords Supper?

What are you asking here?

 

[Brighten04]

For those who agree that God works through means, what prevents you from seeing how He works through Baptism and the Lords Supper?

What are you asking here?

 

[Lamb]

What are you asking here?

The responses here show that people believe God works through means yet a lot of those people refuse to believe how God works through Baptism and the Lords Supper. They say that they believe that God's Word can even do great things, yet when God adds His Word to baptism and the Lords Supper they refuse to acknowledge what He promises in those means of grace.

 

[Brighten04]

The responses here show that people believe God works through means yet a lot of those people refuse to believe how God works through Baptism and the Lords Supper. They say that they believe that God's Word can even do great things, yet when God adds His Word to baptism and the Lords Supper they refuse to acknowledge what He promises in those means of grace.

Are you saying that people here at CH do not believe in these? Maybe you misunderstood what people were saying. I don't remember anyone saying these are unimportant ordinances given by Lord Jesus.

 

[Lamb]

I mentioned nothing about whether people think they're important, rather they don't view them as the means with which God works. Do you believe God works through baptism or the Lords supper?

 

[Pedrito]

I think what Readers in general would like to know is, if God really does “work” through the “means” of “baptism” (which in Lutheran terms I understand includes the baptism of infants) and “the Lord's supper”, what exactly does He do in each case?

1. What does God actually do to or for an infant when it is baptised, that gives that infant advantage over an infant that is not baptised?

2. What does God actually do for a person who takes part in “the Lord's supper” in the Lutheran context, that He does not do for a person taking part in a related ceremony in a non-Lutheran church?

3. What does God actually do for a person who takes part in “the Lord's supper” in the Lutheran context, that He does not do for a person who belongs to a church that does not have an equivalent in its religious repertoire (e.g. the Salvation Army)?

Pointed answers to the above three questions would go a long way towards aiding people's understanding.

 

[Josiah]

Two bits of satire (satire requires a sense of humor)....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVtQQKcNBYs



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwxHzo0QVYY




Enjoy. Consider.




- Josiah

 

[Brighten04]

I mentioned nothing about whether people think they're important, rather they don't view them as the means with which God works. Do you believe God works through baptism or the Lords supper?

I believe God works through our faith. I am not sure I understand what you are asking but this is what I believe about baptism and the Lord's supper. Both are ordinances left on record by our Lord Jesus. Baptism in the name of Jesus to fulfill all righteousness. The Lord's Supper in remembrance of Lord Jesus body being broken and His blood being shed. Doing these expresses our faith in Him and our Father honors our faith.

 

[Lamb]

I believe God works through our faith. I am not sure I understand what you are asking but this is what I believe about baptism and the Lord's supper. Both are ordinances left on record by our Lord Jesus. Baptism in the name of Jesus to fulfill all righteousness. The Lord's Supper in remembrance of Lord Jesus body being broken and His blood being shed. Doing these expresses our faith in Him and our Father honors our faith.

Do you believe God works through His Word?

 

[Lamb]

I think what Readers in general would like to know is, if God really does “work” through the “means” of “baptism” (which in Lutheran terms I understand includes the baptism of infants) and “the Lord's supper”, what exactly does He do in each case?

1. What does God actually do to or for an infant when it is baptised, that gives that infant advantage over an infant that is not baptised?

2. What does God actually do for a person who takes part in “the Lord's supper” in the Lutheran context, that He does not do for a person taking part in a related ceremony in a non-Lutheran church?

3. What does God actually do for a person who takes part in “the Lord's supper” in the Lutheran context, that He does not do for a person who belongs to a church that does not have an equivalent in its religious repertoire (e.g. the Salvation Army)?

Pointed answers to the above three questions would go a long way towards aiding people's understanding.

The forgiveness that was won at the cross, God delivers to us through baptism and the Lord's Supper. That's the benefit because God works through means and most specifically where He has given His Word.

 

[Brighten04]

The forgiveness that was won at the cross, God delivers to us through baptism and the Lord's Supper. That's the benefit because God works through means and most specifically where He has given His Word.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith ; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: