Oh you people working so hard for salvation

[Alithis]

As I noted above, I COMPLETELY disagree with you.

1. ALL Christians continue to sin; you have yet to give me the name of one person who does not sin (Christian or otherwise); thus your whole premise of being sinless is one I reject (ain't no such thing as a SINLESS.... anyone, we ALL continue to sin).

2. I reject your works-righteousness, your emphasis that WE must DO things to be saved. I have rejected - boldly - your entire theology.

READ our extensive exchange - over many days - I've rejected your position. Not only as a Protestant, but as a Christian. Now.... if you've reconsidered and while to recant your posts and take a new position, then I REJOICE. I would love to stand with you. But I cannot as long as you insist that self saves self, that our works of obedience is what saves, etc. - your repudiation of the Christian and Protestant positions that I (and several others) have shared with you that you so strongly have rejected and repudiated.

re #2 i have NEVER stated any works righteousness . not once not ever not any where .

re #1 -its not me your disagreeing with ..its the bible .-i think your comprehension of what is willful continued sin ,has holes in it .

in the post which i refereed/replied to(#115 )..you fully agree with everything i have shared . your so focused on not liking "me " that your not seeing it .

and now your flipping back again to the other side of your coin . you see if what you say were true "ALL Christians continue to sin" - then when John says those who do .. do not know God and are "of the devil " (his words not mine ) then whom am i to believe ?

you or the bible ?
so i will present you with that question . though you have thus far not e answered any of my questions even though i have answered all of yours .

you say Christians continue in sin
John in 1 john 3 says ..true ones Do not continue to do so .. whom would you like me to believe ?

 

[TurtleHare]

absolutely have NEVER EVER said that - not once . not ever . never even implied it .

Your post #26 implies it and I've called you out on it before so do you want me to go to another thread as well and offer up proof or are you changing your mind about your beliefs now. Or maybe you don't realize what you've said here to everyone?

 

[Alithis]

Your post #26 implies it and I've called you out on it before so do you want me to go to another thread as well and offer up proof or are you changing your mind about your beliefs now. Or maybe you don't realize what you've said here to everyone?

.please DO .. go ahead and point it out ,im interested to know what you are alluding to .?
it may well be you have misunderstood a post


here i will help also
i quote post #26

start preaching what the Bible teaches......

..acts .. what must we do to be saved ?
answer

-repent be baptized and you will receive the holy Ghost !

repent -turn away and STOP sinning ....
its what the bible says .

in case it was too difficult for some to figure out .. the word "acts' is in reference to the book of - "Acts"

 

[Alithis]

lets discuss the topic ..based on what the bible says - its in the bible so is it true or is it not ? -I say it IS TRUE . stop trying to discredit me for pointing out what the scripture PLAINLY says .

 

[Josiah]

re #2 i have NEVER stated any works righteousness . not once not ever not any where .

Incorrect. Your entire premise is that WE must DO things in order to be saved.... in fact, you stated that justification and sanctification CANNOT happen UNLESS we FIRST do things... God rendered impotent to save unless WE perform certain works.




.

 

[psalms 91]

Incorrect. Your entire premise is that WE must DO things in order to be saved.... in fact, you stated that justification and sanctification CANNOT happen UNLESS we FIRST do things... God rendered impotent to save unless WE perform certain works.




.

Giod is not impotent to do anything but He dioes require repentance atrue sorrow for our sin in order to be saved otherwise He would honor rebellion and defiance which He will never do. Twisting what is said or seperating scripture to make it fit is not how it should be done.

 

[TurtleHare]

That's absolutely perfect that you quoted it because now you can see where you insist we stop sinning or we don't have salvation. Yes thank you kindly for quoting the very thing you're refuting that you've said and it shows everyone that you think we can't be saved unless we make ourselves perfect and even though the Law demands we be perfect Christ fulfilled that for us when he died in our place. I have nothing to do to receive salvation since God my Father makes sure i'm covered.

.please DO .. go ahead and point it out ,im interested to know what you are alluding to .?
it may well be you have misunderstood a post


here i will help also
i quote post #26



in case it was too difficult for some to figure out .. the word "acts' is in reference to the book of - "Acts"

 

[Alithis]

Incorrect. Your entire premise is that WE must DO things in order to be saved.... in fact, you stated that justification and sanctification CANNOT happen UNLESS we FIRST do things... God rendered impotent to save unless WE perform certain works.
.

sorry Josiah -
this is just silly as the "thing we must do is commanded by God not by me .. do you not agree with God .. ? the "thing " you refer to but leave out of is .. "Repent "

God is not impotent to do anything but He does require repentance a true sorrow for our sin in order to be saved otherwise He would honor rebellion and defiance which He will never do. Twisting what is said or separating scripture to make it fit is not how it should be done.

thank you bill for stating the obvious -=it is rather annoying when ones words are misconstrued to attempt a "win" of an argument .I have no desire to win anything i wil simply always maintain agreement with the scripture whether it gains me friends or enemies .the lord said w wil get both . bu i rather desire that all be saved and to do so obedience to him and continued obedience to him is an absolute .we all know it in the word and in our conscience .

That's absolutely perfect that you quoted it because now you can see where you insist we stop sinning or we don't have salvation. Yes thank you kindly for quoting the very thing you're refuting that you've said and it shows everyone that you think we can't be saved unless we make ourselves perfect and even though the Law demands we be perfect Christ fulfilled that for us when he died in our place. I have nothing to do to receive salvation since God my Father makes sure i'm covered.

well now turtle , i see you had had to "add" your own words to my words in your attempt to discredit me . is that an honest thing to do?
you say i have said "unless we make ourselves" perfect - but i have never said that . so please speak truthfully - you have not quoted where i have said that because you cannot find any such post . and to say i have said that is simply untrue .
I openly tell you off -Please ,if you're going to discuss these things then do so with honesty and cease from willfully twisting what i have said and misquoting me .

i quote the scriptures yet again -if you wish to refute the scripture you will have to take it up with the Lord who spoke them .

in the book of acts peter preached to the people and stated the gospel - that christ came as a man and died on the cross for OUR sin ,lay in the ground 3 days & night and then rose again from the dead and is now glorified with the Father
here it is in Acts ch 2 (and i give it to you this time in the NLT -nice modern emglish for you )
the people responded with the question ..

Peter’s words pierced their hearts, and they said to him and to the other apostles, “Brothers, what should we do?”
Peter replied, “Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. This promise is to you, to your children, and to those far away—all who have been called by the Lord our God.” Then Peter continued preaching for a long time, strongly urging all his listeners, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation!” -Acts 2.


thats what the scripture states -that is what im quoting and saying --tell me is this scripture true ?


stop twisting things to make it appear as if obeying the command is a self work unto salvation ..it is not .
here ,i wil share the same text i have elsehwere as a simplistic example to you .

if the lord JEsus has set before you a table ,set and laden with feast and invites you saying "come sit down and eat .. he did all the "work" and prepared it all for you ... and then says to you , come sit down and eat .. if you stand there believing him but do not do as he says and ... being "walk to the table and sit down and eat .." you wil remain hungry .

your trying to say that walking to the table ,sitting down and eating .. is some how works that credit the preparing of the meal ..to yourself .. but thats rubbish. the meal was already prepared .. the instruction given to "come sit down and eat .

JUst So , the salvation is already prepared and the instruction given. Repent , be baptized and you will receive the Holy Ghost if you have faith in the invite ..you wil respond to the invites instructions .

again when you receive an invitation to an event .. it has on it the attire to wear ,the time and address you need to be there to experience the event ... So to gain entry and receive what the invite promises you, have to dress in the attire stated travel to the address and gain entry at the appropriate time .. - Just So , salvation is already prepared and then invite given with instructions . Repent , be baptized and you will receive the Holy Ghost if you have faith in the inviter ..you will respond to the invites instructions .

it could not be more simple .

and repentance is not a singular event it is a consistent following the good shepherd listening to and obeying his voice .. we cant say we have repented if we have turned away to walk another road ..we must repent again and one who consistently walks the other way is simply displaying they have not yet repented for if they have - they will be consistently following the lord Jesus in his righteousness .. not continuing to practice sin -refer 1 John ch 3- please read it -

 

[Josiah]

Giod is not impotent to do anything but He dioes require repentance atrue sorrow for our sin in order to be saved otherwise He would honor rebellion and defiance which He will never do.

I respectfully disagree. I do not accept that our works are what saves - or enables us to be saved. I believe Jesus saves. I left the RCC in part because of the typical Catholic teaching that OUR "stuff" is ultimately what means we are saved.

We may have to just leave it there. Disagreeing.

 

[Alithis]

I respectfully disagree. I do not accept that our works are what saves - or enables us to be saved. I believe Jesus saves. I left the RCC in part because of the typical Catholic teaching that OUR "stuff" is ultimately what means we are saved.

We may have to just leave it there. Disagreeing.

no one has said any where that our works save us .. your still equating obedience to "works of effort "..

here i will repeat these simplistic examples

stop twisting things to make it appear as if obeying the command is a self work unto salvation ..it is not .
here ,i will share the same text i have elsewhere as a simplistic example to you .

if the lord Jesus has set before you a table ,set and laden with feast and invites you saying "come sit down and eat .. he did all the "work" and prepared it all for you ... and then says to you , come sit down and eat .. if you stand there believing him but do not do as he says and ... being "walk to the table and sit down and eat .." you will remain hungry .

your trying to say that walking to the table ,sitting down and eating .. is some how works that credit the preparing of the meal ..to yourself .. but that's rubbish. the meal was already prepared .. the instruction given to "come sit down and eat .

Just So , the salvation is already prepared and the instruction given. Repent , be baptized and you will recive the Holy Ghost if you have faith in the invite ..you wil respond to the invites instructions .

again when you receive an invitation to an event .. it has on it the attire to wear ,the time and address you need to be there to experience the event ... So to gain entry and receive what the invite promises you, have to dress in the attire stated travel to the address and gain entry at the appropriate time .. - JUst So , salvation is already prepared and then invite given with instructions . Repent , be baptized and you will receive the Holy Ghost if you have faith in the inviter ..you will respond in compliance (obedience )to the invites instructions .

it could not be more simple .

 

[TurtleHare]

It's not your obedience that saves you. The object of your salvation is Jesus the Christ whose death on the cross has forgiven your sins.

Don't turn repentance into the object of your salvation either because God never intended that to happen and what you forget is that you're saying that repentance will give you forgiveness, but that forgiveness already happened at the cross.

It happened already before you committed that sin and before you repented. If forgiveness already wasn't there, it couldn't be given to you at any point in your life, yet, there it is, bought for you at the cross and given to you freely not because of YOU doing anything so if you stop inserting yourself into the equation or anything YOU feel you have to do, you might see the absolute pure beauty of the Gospel message, that Good News that Jesus has done for you.

Ephesians 1:7-8 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace which He lavished on us

Romans 3:23-25 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith.

Stop working so hard for what you think you need to do and realize that Jesus did it for you. Have faith that your sins are forgiven and have faith that He is working in you throughout the rest of your life, not to establish salvation but because you are already His child and covered in Christ's righteousness. If you think you need to do anything then you are the object of your salvation and not the one who died in your place.

Repentance is good. Baptism is good. But it's what you're forgetting that objectively we are justified already through His death, otherwise there is no way it could subjectively given to you at all! Forgiveness was won for you so remember that and stop working so hard to get into heaven because you can't do that and yes, anything YOU feel you need to do is a work. Who is at work in your repentance? It's always gift talk yet you denied it when it was brought up to you previously in that other thread so you're saying to everyone that repentance is only your doing and you keep making your repentance into your savior instead of Jesus.

That's so sad and you miss the big picture.

 

[Alithis]

Do you actually read whats posted? No one has said works saves you,,obedience is not us working to achieve a goal.it is God saying what we must do and us doing it. Go back and read the simple simple simple examples. If you are offered a free gift but you must reach out your hand to take it... Is reaching out your hand a work to earn the gift?no. .stop being silly

 

[pinacled]

I once told someone it is very difficult to navigate the Law without the Holy Spirit.

Romans 2New International Version (NIV)

God’s Righteous Judgment
2 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.

2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth.
3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment?
4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?

5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.

12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

 

[TurtleHare]

You have just announced to the world that Jesus' death isn't enough to save you.

Do you actually read whats posted? No one has said works saves you,,obedience is not us working to achieve a goal.it is God saying what we must do and us doing it. Go back and read the simple simple simple examples. If you are offered a free gift but you must reach out your hand to take it... Is reaching out your hand a work to earn the gift?no. .stop being silly

 

[Alithis]

Alithis
Do you actually read whats posted? No one has said works saves you,,obedience is not us working to achieve a goal.it is God saying what we must do and us doing it. Go back and read the simple simple simple examples. If you are offered a free gift but you must reach out your hand to take it. Is reaching out your hand a work to earn the gift ? no. .stop being silly.

You have just announced to the world that Jesus' death isn't enough to save you.

we all know .. you, I, and the lord, that is not true .im confident in the name of the lord JEsus that i have not said nor ever willfully implied any such thing .

as i said before ..if you are going to discuss this or any topic as one who claims to be a follower of the Lord jesus .then please do so with some honesty and stop the false accusations .

i have asked you in regard to a whole bunch of scriptures if those scriptures are true or not - you have declined to answer - Do i then accuse you of saying they are not true? .. NO i do not because you have not said they are not true -you just haven't yet said they are true .

you so set in your heart to oppose me the person that your not seeing anything being said .return to the scripture ITSELF ,in full context .

answer this one question .. just one time answer a single question . if a gift is offered to you , Is reaching out your hand to accept the gift a "work" to earn it ?

the answer is of course NO .

you began this entire thread because it bothers you that JOHN .. note -NOT ME .. JOHN! wrote in 1 john chapter 3 that if a person continues to practice sin then they do not know GOD .
and JOHN wrote .. NOT ME ..John .. wrote Dear children, don’t let anyone deceive you about this: When people do what is right, it shows that they are righteous, even as Christ is righteous. But when people keep on sinning, it shows that they belong to the devil, who has been sinning since the beginning. But the Son of God came to destroy the works of the devil. Those who have been born into God’s family do not make a practice of sinning, because God’s life is in them. So they can’t keep on sinning, because they are children of God. So now we can tell who are children of God and who are children of the devil. Anyone who does not live righteously and does not love other believers does not belong to God.

So shouldn't you be attacking John instead of attempting to twist my words and discredit me ? i didn't write the scripture ..im only repeating it .

 

[Alithis]

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