Matthew 16:24, 25

[fuddy]

Is Jesus declaring here what is necessary for salvation, or what is required for a 'higher walk' within that salvation?

 

[Frankj]

Is Jesus declaring here what is necessary for salvation, or what is required for a 'higher walk' within that salvation?

Add16:23 to it and it looks like he is simply telling his followers what they must do and what to expect from following him.

But as with everything Jesus said, the more deeply you think on it the more it means.

The way I see it.

 

[Lamb]

Salvation is through Christ, but damnation is purely our fault if we turn from Christ and hang onto our sin, making our sin our Lord. The soul is precious!

Jesus is not telling us that we work for our salvation, for salvation only comes through Him. As believers, we follow Him because the Spirit lives within us, guiding us.

 

[fuddy]

Frank, are you sure you meant Matthew 16:23? get thee behind me Satan??

Lamb - So following him requires that we lose our life (let go of our previous way of thinking/doing things). It's something we must DO... isn't that the definition of work?

 

[jswauto]

Salvation Is Free, but Discipleship Costs a Lot More​

“If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.”
“For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.”
(Matthew 16:24–25) The Cost of Following Christ
After you are saved, you build and deepen your relationship with the Lord by increasingly giving every part of your life to Him.
Jesus is not merely Savior from sin. He is Lord of the life He saved. That means discipleship progressively brings our plans, ambitions, possessions, habits, relationships, time, thoughts, desires, fears, and future under His lordship. This is not an attempt to earn salvation. Rather, it is the life that grows out of salvation.

 

[Lamb]

Frank, are you sure you meant Matthew 16:23? get thee behind me Satan??

Lamb - So following him requires that we lose our life (let go of our previous way of thinking/doing things). It's something we must DO... isn't that the definition of work?

Do you think you have the ability to do that? It's what the Holy Spirit does within us, breaks us down, turning the Old Adam into the New Adam.

 

[Frankj]

Do you think you have the ability to do that? It's what the Holy Spirit does within us, breaks us down, turning the Old Adam into the New Adam.

As I see it, the Holy Spirit gives us the ability, not does it for us, and it is up to us to follow through on it. If it were not so then every one of us would become perfected when it came into us.

Perhaps semantics is in play here.

 

[jswauto]

The Holy Spirit Empowers, but We Really Participate​

Philippians 2 gives us a remarkable combination:

work out your salvation... because God is working in you.

There are two realities operating together:

• God works within us.
• We consequently act.

The Spirit doesn't turn the Christian into a passive spectator.
He convicts.
He strengthens.
He teaches.
He transforms desire.
He produces fruit.
He gives power against sin.
And the believer responds:
Yes, Lord.
The Christian prays.
The Christian forgives.
The Christian resists temptation.
The Christian serves.
The Christian obeys.
The Christian takes up the cross.

 

[Lamb]

As I see it, the Holy Spirit gives us the ability, not does it for us, and it is up to us to follow through on it. If it were not so then every one of us would become perfected when it came into us.

Perhaps semantics is in play here.

We still live in sinful bodies that protest against the Holy Spirit and prefer to do it our own way. The Holy Spirit is sanctifying us. We do things that He wants us to do, but like everyone else in the bible (except Jesus since He's God), we fight it. This is why our works are not dependent upon our salvation. It's dependent on whether we trust Jesus to be our salvation.

 

[Frankj]

We still live in sinful bodies that protest against the Holy Spirit and prefer to do it our own way. The Holy Spirit is sanctifying us. We do things that He wants us to do, but like everyone else in the bible (except Jesus since He's God), we fight it. This is why our works are not dependent upon our salvation. It's dependent on whether we trust Jesus to be our salvation.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

When Jesus said this did he not requiring going works?

Matthew 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Do you not consider both taking up your cross and following him to be works?

Do you not consider what we do and teach to be works?

If not then what are works, the ones we are told we will be judged on?