Why Christ said we have to go Beyond the Law

[Frankj]

James makes the statement because a good tree will bear fruit. That doesn't make it a tree...it's still a tree. It's just a fruitful tree because of God's will that it produce.

This reflects the Talmud (probably actually a Midrash) saying: Every blade of grass has its angel that bends over it and whispers, "Grow, grow."

This would indicate that both the good trees and the bad trees, the weeds and the crops, are under the command of God, that he controls the nature of both.

But what of the words of Jesus?

I think discussions should center on these words rather than those said about what he said, otherwise we end up practicing a religion about Jesus than of Jesus which over time becomes a religion acceptable to man rather than God (as much of today's church seems intent on demonstrating).

 

[Lamb]

This reflects the Talmud (probably actually a Midrash) saying: Every blade of grass has its angel that bends over it and whispers, "Grow, grow."

This would indicate that both the good trees and the bad trees, the weeds and the crops, are under the command of God, that he controls the nature of both.

But what of the words of Jesus?

I think discussions should center on these words rather than those said about what he said, otherwise we end up practicing a religion about Jesus than of Jesus which over time becomes a religion acceptable to man rather than God (as much of today's church seems intent on demonstrating).

The entire bible is that of God. Rejecting is why you reject the Jesus as the one who saves you and you keep thinking you have to do something more. Please repent.

 

[Lamb]

I believe we are in danger of accepting "easy believism" and "cheap grace"
Some verses to consider

From James ch.2"
v21Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works;

Jesus wants disciples,ie. learners and followers
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. (Matthew 28:19)

From the Ampl.:
And He was saying to them all, “If anyone wishes to follow Me [as My disciple], he must deny himself [set aside selfish interests], and take up his cross daily [expressing a willingness to endure whatever may come] and follow Me [believing in Me, conforming to My example in living and, if need be, suffering or perhaps dying because of faith in Me](Luke 9:23)
Dietrich Bonhöfer quoted this verse often

So then, my dear ones, just as you have always obeyed [my instructions with enthusiasm], not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence, continue to work out your salvation [that is, cultivate it, bring it to full effect, actively pursue spiritual maturity] with awe-inspired fear and trembling [using serious caution and critical self-evaluation to avoid anything that might offend God or discredit the name of Christ].(Philippians 2:12)

A lot to think about

Easy believism? I have no idea what kind of nonsense that is. The Lord wants us to trust in Him to save us. Our works reflect our trust in Him.

 

[Frankj]

Easy believism? I have no idea what kind of nonsense that is. The Lord wants us to trust in Him to save us. Our works reflect our trust in Him.

Do you deny that Jesus connected your salvation with your works stating that you must do something for it to happen, or do you (if I understand you correctly) believe that all that is necessary is being baptized after which everything is done for you by God and you are not responsible for anything other than the baptism?

Why do you never, ever, quote the words of Jesus (that's the ones in red letters) when you respond and turn to quoting what someone else said instead?

 

[Frankj]

The entire bible is that of God. Rejecting is why you reject the Jesus as the one who saves you and you keep thinking you have to do something more. Please repent.

Do you deny that Jesus connected your salvation with your works stating that you must do something for it to happen, or do you (if I understand you correctly) believe that all that is necessary is being baptized after which everything is done for you by God and you are not responsible for anything other than the baptism?

Why do you never, ever, quote the words of Jesus (that's the ones in red letters) when you respond and turn to quoting what someone else said instead?

 

[Lamb]

Do you deny that Jesus connected your salvation with your works stating that you must do something for it to happen, or do you (if I understand you correctly) believe that all that is necessary is being baptized after which everything is done for you by God and you are not responsible for anything other than the baptism?

Why do you never, ever, quote the words of Jesus (that's the ones in red letters) when you respond and turn to quoting what someone else said instead?

I deny that we must do works in order to have salvation. Salvation is given to us as a gift from God by grace through faith, not by works.

Baptism is a way to receive faith. Just like hearing God's word is a way to receive faith.

Do you deny that God's word is effective in granting faith?

You never answered what percentage of works you have to do as a requirement in order for you to appease God to gain salvation.

 

[Frankj]

I deny that we must do works in order to have salvation. Salvation is given to us as a gift from God by grace through faith, not by works.

Baptism is a way to receive faith. Just like hearing God's word is a way to receive faith.

Do you deny that God's word is effective in granting faith?

You never answered what percentage of works you have to do as a requirement in order for you to appease God to gain salvation.

Interesting that you mention Baptism as 'a' way to gain faith, an all roads lead to God sort of thing? (FWIW, this is a growing belief trend in the Church, something even a recent Pope seemed to suggest)

We do not agree on this, if you want to persuade me to your views then support them in the words of Jesus, something I'm beginning to think you are avoiding.

I would be pleased to be wrong about this if you are able to do so.

BTW, I find a question about percentages of your works being required to be a question born of the secular world, not of God's word. Did you really mean it that way, that God only wants some percentage or our life dedicated to him? Consider the First Commandment.