Salvation not based on our merit

[Oseas]

Then is that meaning that, essentially, faith is forced on you and you have the choice to leave it?

A choice, by nature, requires more than one option when it is made.

As the philosopher Yogi Berra once brilliantly observed, when you come to a fork in the road take it.

Neither choice nor decision, but belief.

John 12:44-50

44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.

45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.

46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the Word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last Day. ->(This Day arrive, that is the seventh and lasty Day, or seventjh and last millennium)

49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.


Romans 1:16-22
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the Power of GOD unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of GOD revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Ephesians 5:14
14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

Matthew 8:18-22

18 Now when Jesus saw great multitudes about Him, He gave commandment to depart unto the other side.

19 And a certain scribe came, and said unto Him, Master, I will follow thee whithersoever Thou goest.

20 And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

21 And another of His disciples said unto JESUS, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.

22 But JESUS said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

 

[Oseas]

Then is that meaning that, essentially, faith is forced on you and you have the choice to leave it?

A choice, by nature, requires more than one option when it is made.

As the philosopher Yogi Berra once brilliantly observed, when you come to a fork in the road take it.

What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, human thoughts or philosophy is good for nothing. It's is a stumblingblok and mortal-Genesis 2:17 combined with 3:22 and 3:1.

And still, that leaves two or more people reading the same words and having different and sometimes conflicting understandings give by the spirit they believe directs them.

Perhaps at this point we should try to factor in genesis 1:26-27. I light of previous discussion, what would you see as the implication(s) of this?

John 1:1-5 and 10-14
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by JESUS, and without Him was not any thing made that was made. -> (Hebrews 1:2, take a look)

4 In JESUS was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.


10 JESUS was in the world, and the world was made by Him, and the world knew Him not.

11 JESUS came unto His own, and His own received Him not.

12 But as many as received Him->(because believed in Him-> Matthew 16:13-17, TAKE A LOOK), to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word was made flesh,->(it was around 4000 years after Adam, and around 2000 years ago, in fulfillment of prophecies, mainly Isaiah 9:6-7, take a look), and dwelt among us,(and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father-> John 5:17,take a look)
FULL OF GRACE and TRUTH.

Alleluia!!!

Jewish Calendar - How to explain the difference of exactly 240 years in the Jewish calendar?

The Jewish calendar is the type of calendar that the Jewish people use for counting time and commemorating birthdays, festivities, weddings, deaths, religious celebrations and other solemnities. According to the Hebrews, the years are counted from what they believe to be the creation of Adam...

purebibleforum.com

 

[Lamb]

Then is that meaning that, essentially, faith is forced on you and you have the choice to leave it?

A choice, by nature, requires more than one option when it is made.

As the philosopher Yogi Berra once brilliantly observed, when you come to a fork in the road take it.

"Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see." Hebrews 11:1

Only God can give that to us. We "receive" and we can't choose to take it, so yes, it's given to us. Using the word force has a negative connotation when in fact, it's love from God to let us know that Jesus is our Savior who forgives our sins. The Gospel changes us from the Old unbelieving Adam to the New believing Adam. You can't choose to do that.

"You did not choose me, but I chose you." John 15:16 That verse right there tells you God has you covered! The only choice you have is to reject Him.

 

[Oseas]

"You did not choose me, but I chose you." John 15:16 That verse right there tells you God has you covered! The only choice you have is to reject Him.

John 1:11-12
11 JESUS came unto His own, and His own received Him not.

12 But as many as received Him->(because believed in Him-> Matthew 16:13-17 ), to them gave He power to become the sons of GOD, even to them that believe on His name:

 

[Oseas]

the fact that he warns us of what would happen if we don't repent and tells us to repent suggests free will more

MATTHEW 16:13-17

13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

15 JESUS saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not REVEALED IT unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

So, Neither choice nor decision, but belief and revelation.

Matthew 11:27-> ...No man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to

whomsoever the Son will reveal Him.

John 1:18 -> No man hath seen GOD at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him.


jOHN 17:1-11

6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.

8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.



1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify Thee:

2 As thou hast given Him power over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given Him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know Thee the only true GOD, and JESUS Christ, whom Thou hast sent.

4 I have glorified Thee on the earth: I have finished the work which Thou gavest me to do. -> (JOHN 5:17)

5 And now, O Father, glorify Thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was.

 

[Frankj]

"Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see." Hebrews 11:1

Only God can give that to us. We "receive" and we can't choose to take it, so yes, it's given to us. Using the word force has a negative connotation when in fact, it's love from God to let us know that Jesus is our Savior who forgives our sins. The Gospel changes us from the Old unbelieving Adam to the New believing Adam. You can't choose to do that.

"You did not choose me, but I chose you." John 15:16 That verse right there tells you God has you covered! The only choice you have is to reject Him.

Are you equating faith and belief?

 

[Lamb]

Are you equating faith and belief?

Faith is a trust in the Savior...I guess believing isn't too far off, but has to do with the intellectual doctrines. Both are because God is at work in us, and not our own contribution:

John 6:29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

 

[Frankj]

Faith is a trust in the Savior...I guess believing isn't too far off, but has to do with the intellectual doctrines. Both are because God is at work in us, and not our own contribution:

John 6:29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

But the reason for that must be considered as well, the question that was asked that prompted the response:

John 6:28 Then they said to Him, "What should we do, that we may work the works of God?"

How do 'works' figure in without a choice to do them being involved?

 

[Lamb]

But the reason for that must be considered as well, the question that was asked that prompted the response:

John 6:28 Then they said to Him, "What should we do, that we may work the works of God?"

How do 'works' figure in without a choice to do them being involved?

Jesus pointed it right back to God.

 

[Oseas]

But the reason for that must be considered as well, the question that was asked that prompted the response:
John 6:28 Then they said to Him, "What should we do, that we may work the works of God?"

How do 'works' figure in without a choice to do them being involved?

No choice; ->JESUS left very clear, saying: -> John 6:44 :->No man can come to me, EXCEPT the Father which hath sent me draw him:

You sound like the MAN of sin in Genesis 3:1-11:->
9 And the Lord GOD called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.

11 And GOD said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I COMMANDED thee that thou shouldest
not eat? -> GENESIS 2:17 combined with 3:22 and 3:1-11. Take a look.

REVELATION 16:13-15

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

 

[jswauto]

“A Reckless Love, Unrelentingly Poured Out on Us”
“A reckless love, unrelentingly poured out on us” — is actually one of the most accurate ways to describe the shape of God’s pursuit without confusing it with literal recklessness. It captures something Scripture keeps showing in story after story: God’s love looks unreasonable to the self‑protective heart, extravagant to the calculating mind, and wasteful to the prideful observer — but it is perfect in wisdom, timing, and intention.

Let's see how this fits beautifully with this statement: “He has a calling, and it’s on every single soul to salvation, and it’s dealt with in perfection.”

1. God’s Love Looks Reckless From the Outside — Because It Breaks Expected Boundaries​

Think of the biblical patterns:

• The shepherd leaves the ninety‑nine.
• The father runs to the prodigal.
• Jesus touches lepers.
• He eats with sinners.
• He forgives His executioners.
• He dies for enemies, not friends.

To the watching world, that looks reckless. To heaven, it looks like perfect love doing exactly what perfect love does.
It’s not reckless in the sense of careless. It’s reckless in the sense of unrestrained, uncalculating, unguarded generosity.

2. God’s Love Is Unrelenting Because His Call Is Universal​

You said it perfectly: His calling is on every single soul.
That means:

• No one is too far.
• No one is too broken.
• No one is too resistant.
• No one is overlooked.
• No one is unloved.

His pursuit is not random or chaotic — it is tailored, persistent, and perfectly fitted to each person’s story.
This is why the redeemed will never question His justice. They will see that every soul was pursued with flawless wisdom and relentless mercy.

3. God’s Love Is “Reckless” Only in the Sense That It Risks Rejection​

Love that never risks rejection is not love — it’s control.
God’s love:

• opens the door,
• calls the name,
• reveals the truth,
• convicts the heart,
• offers grace,
• waits with patience,
• and honors freedom.

He pours Himself out knowing many will refuse Him. That is not recklessness — that is courageous love.

4. The Saved Will See That His Love Was Perfect, Not Wasteful​

In eternity, the redeemed and the loyal angels will not say:

• “Why did You love so many who rejected You?”

They will say:

• “Your love was perfect.”
• “Your pursuit was flawless.”
• “Your patience was beyond comprehension.”
• “Your justice is clear.”
• “Your mercy was extended to all.”

The “recklessness” of His love will be understood as the fullness of His goodness, not a flaw in His design.

5. What You’re Articulating Is the Heart of the Gospel​

You’ve landed on the core truth:

God’s love is unrelenting, universal, and perfectly administered — even when it looks extravagant or unreasonable to us. And it always accomplishes what it sets out to do!

 

[BruceLeiter]

“A Reckless Love, Unrelentingly Poured Out on Us”
“A reckless love, unrelentingly poured out on us” — is actually one of the most accurate ways to describe the shape of God’s pursuit without confusing it with literal recklessness. It captures something Scripture keeps showing in story after story: God’s love looks unreasonable to the self‑protective heart, extravagant to the calculating mind, and wasteful to the prideful observer — but it is perfect in wisdom, timing, and intention.

Let's see how this fits beautifully with this statement: “He has a calling, and it’s on every single soul to salvation, and it’s dealt with in perfection.”

1. God’s Love Looks Reckless From the Outside — Because It Breaks Expected Boundaries​

Think of the biblical patterns:

• The shepherd leaves the ninety‑nine.
• The father runs to the prodigal.
• Jesus touches lepers.
• He eats with sinners.
• He forgives His executioners.
• He dies for enemies, not friends.

To the watching world, that looks reckless. To heaven, it looks like perfect love doing exactly what perfect love does.
It’s not reckless in the sense of careless. It’s reckless in the sense of unrestrained, uncalculating, unguarded generosity.

2. God’s Love Is Unrelenting Because His Call Is Universal​

You said it perfectly: His calling is on every single soul.
That means:

• No one is too far.
• No one is too broken.
• No one is too resistant.
• No one is overlooked.
• No one is unloved.

His pursuit is not random or chaotic — it is tailored, persistent, and perfectly fitted to each person’s story.
This is why the redeemed will never question His justice. They will see that every soul was pursued with flawless wisdom and relentless mercy.

3. God’s Love Is “Reckless” Only in the Sense That It Risks Rejection​

Love that never risks rejection is not love — it’s control.
God’s love:

• opens the door,
• calls the name,
• reveals the truth,
• convicts the heart,
• offers grace,
• waits with patience,
• and honors freedom.

He pours Himself out knowing many will refuse Him. That is not recklessness — that is courageous love.

4. The Saved Will See That His Love Was Perfect, Not Wasteful​

In eternity, the redeemed and the loyal angels will not say:

• “Why did You love so many who rejected You?”

They will say:

• “Your love was perfect.”
• “Your pursuit was flawless.”
• “Your patience was beyond comprehension.”
• “Your justice is clear.”
• “Your mercy was extended to all.”

The “recklessness” of His love will be understood as the fullness of His goodness, not a flaw in His design.

5. What You’re Articulating Is the Heart of the Gospel​

You’ve landed on the core truth:

God’s love is unrelenting, universal, and perfectly administered — even when it looks extravagant or unreasonable to us. And it always accomplishes what it sets out to do!

I have always objected to the song "Reckless Love," @jswauto, because the word "reckless" has a negative connotation. For example, dictionary. com defines it as:

1. utterly unconcerned about the consequences of some action; without caution; careless (usually followed byof ).
   

   to be reckless of danger.

   Synonyms: imprudent, negligent, incautious, heedless, rash Antonyms: careful
2. characterized by or proceeding from such carelessness.

I don't want to say or sing anything negative about God, because he is not careless. The word is a poor witness to other people.