Oh you people working so hard for salvation

TurtleHare

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There's a fine line between accepting Christ died for us and thinking we don't have anything to do ourselves.

May as well do away with repentance if that's the case...

What do YOU think you have to do for salvation?

If you add anything to what Christ has done, then doesn't that negate HIS work on the cross and rejecting the forgiveness won for you by His death?

We are saved by grace through faith. God brings us to repentance and thankfully so and He continues to work in us throughout our lives turning us toward him whenever we turn away and thankfully so. If I had to rely on the things I do, then I'd be damned so thankfully I rely on Christ, that's daily repentance and obedience to faith.
 

Alithis

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I'm not being dishonest and I think you aren't realizing what you've typed?

We are free in Christ because we are covered in His blood. You keep on sinning throughout your life though and you refuse to believe that which is itself sinful in thinking you're some sort of little god. repent!

back to your contradiction again.. .. if you really believe your free .then you not controlled by it .. so you don't have to do it.

your saying your free ,but not free, free ,but not free ,free, but not free .. make up you mind -i know jesus set me free because he caused me to stop doing it, so what sin is it your speaking off that you're free from but still controls you so you have no choice but to keep doing it .?? what sin are you referring to that is so strong the lord failed to set you free from it ?
 

popsthebuilder

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Faith is not given to the demons because there is no salvation provided for them. Works done afterward are not for salvation, stop promoting works! God saves us because we cannot save ourselves. Stop trying to save yourself and let God be God. Let the Gospel message stand in all its sweetness and stop trying to put man into God's place and taking away from the great work He has done on the cross. Why isn't His forgiveness enough for you that you feel you need to do more for salvation?
Works are a byproduct of Faith and salvation. I thought they made that clear.

They don't seem to be saying that works are the way to salvation but that true belief and as such utter striving in the word of GOD made available for all by the sacrifice and resurrection of Jesus the Christ is the means and works are but the testament of said salvation through Christ under GOD.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
 

popsthebuilder

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Adam (man) was prescribed to work all his days.

Lazarus wasn't a believer with his mouth but an actual faithful follower. The story is symbolic for the potency of God to revive those dead in sin making them a newly formed holy creation by the grace of God. One doesn't stop sinning to be saved. One is saved and faithful and as such detests sin.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
 

popsthebuilder

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This sounds to me like universalism and that's one of the most dangerous doctrines around.
How so? If you don't mind my asking.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
 

popsthebuilder

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Correct! Universalism states that all are saved and we know that the bible tells us that rejection of the Savior damns us. Scripture also states we can turn away from God and there are plenty of warnings about that.
No that's universal reconciliation not universalism.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
 

Lamb

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Universalism is the theological view arguing that all persons will ultimately be saved. Some also teach that there is no such thing as a literal hell or eternal punishment. http://www.theopedia.com/universalism
 

TurtleHare

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Free from the penalty of sin and I am justified with a not guilty verdict but only because of the Savior not because I contribute. He is my redeemer so I cannot save myself nor can I free myself by any of my own actions.


back to your contradiction again.. .. if you really believe your free .then you not controlled by it .. so you don't have to do it.

your saying your free ,but not free, free ,but not free ,free, but not free .. make up you mind -i know jesus set me free because he caused me to stop doing it, so what sin is it your speaking off that you're free from but still controls you so you have no choice but to keep doing it .?? what sin are you referring to that is so strong the lord failed to set you free from it ?
 

TurtleHare

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Everyone but alithis says works are after salvation but he says we must work to stop sinning in order to be saved and Hammster already pointed out that is a Pharisee line of thinking.


Works are a byproduct of Faith and salvation. I thought they made that clear.

They don't seem to be saying that works are the way to salvation but that true belief and as such utter striving in the word of GOD made available for all by the sacrifice and resurrection of Jesus the Christ is the means and works are but the testament of said salvation through Christ under GOD.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
 

TurtleHare

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Yes yes yes with this I agree because believers kniw God'sLaw is good and holy and we don't follow it to earn anything.



Adam (man) was prescribed to work all his days.

Lazarus wasn't a believer with his mouth but an actual faithful follower. The story is symbolic for the potency of God to revive those dead in sin making them a newly formed holy creation by the grace of God. One doesn't stop sinning to be saved. One is saved and faithful and as such detests sin.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
 

popsthebuilder

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Everyone but alithis says works are after salvation but he says we must work to stop sinning in order to be saved and Hammster already pointed out that is a Pharisee line of thinking.
I have read nearly all of their posts on this page. They have not and will not attest that works are the means of salvation, but that salvation is the means for the work to take place.

Peace.

It seems most here are just having trouble understanding what they are saying, not because it is blasphemy, but because of personal greed of the denier.

Everything they have said is 100% backed by scripture. Not a verse but the whole book from cover to cover.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
 

Alithis

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Originally Posted by TurtleHare
Everyone but alithis says works are after salvation but he says we must work to stop sinning in order to be saved and Hammster already pointed out that is a Pharisee line of thinking.

I have read nearly all of their posts on this page. They have not and will not attest that works are the means of salvation, but that salvation is the means for the work to take place.

Peace.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

I don't really enjoy being misrepresented with word twisiting . thank you for taking note that it is not what is being said by any one.

I have only stated exactly what the lord Jesus has spoken .. and He said to them, "Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem. luke 24 .

and it did begin at jerusalem when the people asked "what should we do to be saved ?
-...."Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

and it continued to be preached until the great falling away which we have been in for some time now (that has been evident by the lack of "power" in the western churches )

and I am continuing to preach it directly from scripture and will continue to do so because repentance from sin is the first step of obeying the message of the good news of Jesus (the Gospel ) and it is not a singular event but an ongoing state of following jesus . we turn to follow him.. and we remain following him until we arrive at the destination he is taking us to .. we remain repented .
 

TurtleHare

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No one has twisted anything but you.

In post 26 you yourself told everyone stop sinning but hey that means the cross was for nothing and you rely on your ability to be perfect instead of Jesus. You are the one making yourself into a savior instead iof promoting the true savior who forgives every single sin you have committed and will commit. That is the power of His death but you refuse to believe and instead keep looking to YOU to try to save yourself and you know what? You're gonna fail.
 

Alithis

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No one has twisted anything but you.

In post 26 you yourself told everyone stop sinning but hey that means the cross was for nothing and you rely on your ability to be perfect instead of Jesus. You are the one making yourself into a savior instead iof promoting the true savior who forgives every single sin you have committed and will commit. That is the power of His death but you refuse to believe and instead keep looking to YOU to try to save yourself and you know what? You're gonna fail.

because of what the lord JEsus did on the cross we can receive POWER to live in his overcoming .. that simply means we do not HAVE to do it any more because it does not have some magical control over us . the cross sets us free from its power .

a person set free does not go back into his prison cell and do more service there ... its very simple realy ..
so what particular "sin " is it you refer to when you say you cant stop doing it - becaseu it is not the Holy Spirit making you keep doing it ..it is not the gospel making you do it ..it is not the shed blood of christ making you do it .. and since all these set you free from satan's power, its not satan making you do it ... though he will certainly try to entice you to [-we can only be tempted by what our heart already desires to do-james]

thats just leaves "you" - and IF you(or anyone) can't stop because its like your being controlled then your not free YET need to get SET FREE because thats what the lord jesus came to do .. set us free from sin and its destructive power in our lives . he did not come to leave us in it .
 

TurtleHare

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Allow me to point out your sin that you need to repent of since you have said that you no longer sin and have turned away yet you blatantly are rude to people here on this message board and that has nothing to do with spouting scripture because you don't love your neighbors as much as you love yourself. I have read some of your posts here that show you to be condescending and that isn't loving. So repent of your sinful behaviour and yes it is sinful. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you which means cool it and be kind.

You see you still sin. That means you are human. We are only perfect because we are covered by Christ. Repent.
 

Alithis

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Allow me to point out your sin that you need to repent of since you have said that you no longer sin and have turned away yet you blatantly are rude to people here on this message board and that has nothing to do with spouting scripture because you don't love your neighbors as much as you love yourself. I have read some of your posts here that show you to be condescending and that isn't loving. So repent of your sinful behaviour and yes it is sinful. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you which means cool it and be kind.

You see you still sin. That means you are human. We are only perfect because we are covered by Christ. Repent.

mmmm interesting -you don't yet know the difference between rebuke and correction and every time you're faced with the dilemma of something pointed out to you that you don't want to face up to.. you respond by attacking the character of the messenger with loose accusations .
when my children were in the wrong i told them off (rebuked) and i then straightforwardly correct them that they may be aware of the error of their ways .. If i DID NOT do so.. then THAT would not be loving them . it is the same here . it would NOT be love to appease the conscience of continues sin which leads to death. in fact to do that would be the most hateful action i could take as it encourages people to remain on a course of action which brings death . So i speak the truth .And for the most part i do so by simply Quoting the word of GOd and it is like a sword .. it cuts to the bone of the matter ..it separates spirit from flesh -the flesh mind does not like to hear the word of God - it cuts . but the Spirit delights in it for it is freedom to the Spirit and death to the flesh .

do unto others you say .. ouh i assure you I am .as i always prefer correction over error of sin. :) . as is one of my favorite verses "let the righteous smite me it is a blessing unto me "..pp David said this because he understood that to be told off and rebuked brings correction of direction away from that which can destroy your life and back onto the path of righteousness .

in your misunderstanding you equate rebuke and correction to sin. which is of course another error .
so your telling me to repent of speaking truth and calling it sin to continue doing so?.. no, it is always Love to speak the truth .the gospel is good news unto those who believe and Jesus said those who believe OBEY ,so we know those who do not obey only say they believe with their lips but their heart is far fro the lord .
your calling it rude simply because the truth i have spoken to you makes you uncomfortable and enrages your flesh - perhaps you desire to look for a way to silence me .. a cross perhaps will do -you can nail me to it that might silence me ? -YEs a harsh rebuke indeed .

you will observe that i have never accused you of sin
i has stated across threads that we must obey the lord jesu and repent of sin(it means turn from it and stop doing it )
i have asked you "if you keep doing a sin that your cant stop what is it ? you decline to answer .
i have showed you scripture after scripture after scripture about how continuance of sin is unacceptable and how we can be truly free

but i have never accused you of sin as you have just accused me
-the word of god can only make us aware of sin in our life ..if there is sin in our life . and if there is sin in our life (we speak of unambiguous known sin by will ) the the lord desires us to BE FREE thats what he wants for us and provides for us -and he tells us the way to be free - REPENT and be baptised and you will recive the holy Ghost .
 

Alithis

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so stop implying to people that it is ok to continue in sin after being set free from it -the scripture is absolute in disagreeing with that -John even states CLEARLY if we continue in practicing sin that we do not know God . And we know the simple remedy for that is Repentance for the forgivness of sin. trust in the lord Jesus ..seriously TRUST HIM he can do what he promised -he is the deliverer .

JEsus can set us free from sin so that we don't do it any more . he can give us a new heart that though it is aware of the desire of the flesh that surrounds it -it does not Do what the flesh wants becaseu it (the new heart) loves God and seeks to please god not the flesh .. this is the wonder of the power of the Gospel ..

as i have said so often and so openly ..i was a drug and porn addict violent on nature bound in demonics of martial arts and vileness .. when the lord set me free he set me FREE so though i am aware of the fleshes desire to do bad things .. i abhor and SHUN them because i recall with disdain and disgust the sorrow i was in.and the contrast of the hope of glory and wondrous peace and beauty of holiness the lord showed me is so wondrous i desire Him above all else .the new heart he gave me desires GOD more then the flesh . we can only be tempted by what we actually want to do.. these things don't tempt me becaseu i SO don't EVER want to go back to that miserable horror ever again. no one who has truly known the grace of God in his deliverance can return and remain in the practice of sin -you just cant ..that which was wicked before i was saved .. has become exceedingly wicked to me now ..i don't EVER want that vile darkness ever again. -this is the WONDER of the POWER of the GOSPEL once it is obeyed . JESU CAME TO SET US FREE not to leave us a prisoner to sin.
 

TurtleHare

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Sinful man never wants to believe it. You overcame some big obstacles yet cannot see that you are still a human who sins daily. It's true.
 

Alithis

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Sinful man never wants to believe it. You overcame some big obstacles yet cannot see that you are still a human who sins daily. It's true.

well. thats what the adversary tries to tell me anyway .. but my lord said the adversary is a liar and the father of lies .

but "i did not over come any thing , the lord JEsus did and when he brings us to true repentance we are born anew INTO his voctory and he gives us a new heart that does not desire sin though we are aware of it ll around us we dont do it because it is not what his nature in us desires .as long as we do walk in the Holy Spirit ..which is to walk in and obey the nature of chrsit within us ..we cannot sin for at no time wil the lord jesus ,by his HOLY spirit cause us or lead us to sin.it is impossable for God to sin .

And didn't you say we are saved from sin ? didn't you say the lord Jesus saved us ?
did the lord JEsus set us free ?

if we are free from our old master of sin which brings death .. why do you insist we have no choice but to serve it ? why do you say with one hand "we are saved from sin "and with the other hand you insist "i" must remain a prisoner of it to serve it beyond any hope ? you offer hope with one hand and then remove it with the other .

still your persist with this double message ..please make a clarification of what your preaching . which is it ??????

does the lord Jesus do as he promised and set us free ?(i say he DOES )
or does he fail to set us free so we have no choice but to continue in sin ? ( i assure you he did not Fail )
 

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