What does the bible say about immigration and obeying the law of the land?

[Lamb]

I've seen both sides of this topic show how they clearly can represent biblically that they are in the right concerning their beliefs on immigration, whether it's allowing people to stay in a country even though they entered illegally because of love for others as well as not allowing people to stay because they broke the law and it doesn't break God's law since Jesus said to give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar.

Where do you stand and what do you use from the bible to back up your position?

 

[Frankj]

I say if they are to be allowed to stay it should be required that they have a sponsor that guarantees to cover any expenses they cannot cover themselves so they cannot live off the public coffer while remaining what they are instead of integrating into our culture and becoming Americans instead.

The reason they are here as well as the Leftist demand that they be kept here is political, not humanitarian, and if politics were removed they would not be here in the first place.

FWIW, the Bible tells us to take care of our own house first, not someone else's.

 

[hobie]

I think this applies..

1 Peter 2:13-17

King James Version
​

13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.
17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

 

[tango]

I think the parable of the Good Samaritan contains implications that many would find uncomfortable. Being a parable we can only draw so much from it, but it's interesting that the Samaritan (the guy who would have been considered to have about the same status as a dog) took pity on the man who had been left for dead. But what the Samaritan did is noteworthy - he treated the man, he took the man on his own animal to an inn, he paid the innkeeper, and he promised to pay any shortfall when he returned.

He didn't write to his congressman demanding more public action for victims of street violence, he didn't demand that Someone Else be held responsible for the costs, or that the rich (whoever they are today) should be required to pay more to help people like that. He did it himself.

It's easy to be generous when someone else is footing the bill. If people are so keen to receive immigrants (and there's nothing wrong with immigrants in general, I'm an immigrant myself), how about opening your home and letting them sleep in your house? If you don't have a spare room, let them sleep on your sofa. Feed them. Take responsibility for them. If you're not willing to do that, don't demand that everyone else does it for you.

 

[Ghost]

I recall a story about a man between Jericho and another who was given love and respect on his travels, regardless of his place of origin.

I know we are to not judge, love our neighbor, and find a bond in Christianity more than any other division, border, flag, or other. But within this, it even goes as far in a few passages to say that even those from other locations are children of God because a man from afar who cannot read is still a child of God, a foreigner is still a child of God, etc, etc, etc. Can't stress enough how many etceteras there are because the Bible is full of love for strangers, foreigners, and immigrants.

I would even go as far as saying that anyone using the Bible to discriminate against immigrants is not following the teachings whatsoever, and although i cannot judge, the Bible says we have an obligation to share what is true like I am here, and it is only up to the people to listen and act until the time of judgment.

So with all of this said, without judgment, we are obligated to understand that the laws and borders of men are not created by God, and following the laws that confine and separate us is exactly what we're warned against. Does it not say that the laws will be used to disguise evil as righteousness, or similar?

---

‘I am a stranger and an alien residing among you; give me property among you for a burying place, so that I may bury my dead out of my sight.’
Genesis 23:4

“You shall not oppress a sojourner. You know the heart of a sojourner, for you were sojourners in the land of Egypt."
Exodus 23:9 (ESV)

You shall also love the stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt.
Deuteronomy 10:19

“When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. 34 You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God."
Leviticus 19:33-34 (ESV)

‘Cursed is anyone who withholds justice from the foreigner, the fatherless or the widow.’ Then all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’
Deuteronomy 27:19 (NIV)

When they were few in number, of little account, and strangers in the land, wandering from nation to nation, from one kingdom to another people, he allowed no one to oppress them; he rebuked kings on their account, saying, ‘Do not touch my anointed ones; do my prophets no harm.’
1 Chronicles 16:19-22

I was eyes to the blind, and feet to the lame. I was a father to the needy, and I championed the cause of the stranger. I broke the fangs of the unrighteous, and made them drop their prey from their teeth.
Job 29:15-17

The Lord watches over the strangers; he upholds the orphan and the widow, but the way of the wicked he brings to ruin.
Psalm146:9

For if you truly amend your ways and your doings, if you truly act justly one with another, if you do not oppress the alien, the orphan, and the widow, or shed innocent blood in this place, and if you do not go after other gods to your own hurt, then I will dwell with you in this place, in the land that I gave of old to your ancestors forever and ever.
Jeremiah 7:5-7

You shall allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the aliens who reside among you and have begotten children among you. They shall be to you as citizens of Israel; with you they shall be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel.
Ezekiel 47:22

Thus says the Lord of hosts: Render true judgments, show kindness and mercy to one another; do not oppress the widow, the orphan, the alien, or the poor; and do not devise evil in your hearts against one another.
Zechariah 7:9-10

You have heard that it was said, ‘you shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy’. But I say to you, love your enemy and pray for those who persecute you.
Matthew 5:43-44

I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me.
Matthew 25:35

Truly I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of my brethren you did it to me.
Matthew 25:40

You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.
Luke 10:27

Then Peter began to speak to them: “I truly understand that God shows no partiality, but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.
Acts 10:34

Contribute to the needs of the saints; extend hospitality to strangers.
Romans 12:13

Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.
Romans 13:8

Love does no wrong to a neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Romans 13:10

In that renewal there is no longer Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and free; but Christ is all and in all.
Colossians 3:11

Let mutual love continue. Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by doing that some have entertained angels without knowing it. Remember those who are in prison, as though you were in prison with them; those who are being tortured, as though you yourselves were being tortured.
Hebrews 13:1-3

Beloved, you do faithfully whatever you do for the friends, even though they are strangers to you; they have testified to your love before the church. You do well to send them on in a manner worthy of God; for they began their journey for the sake of Christ, accepting no support from non-believers. Therefore we ought to support such people, so that they may become co-workers with the truth.
3 John 1:5-8

 

[Lamb]

I recall a story about a man between Jericho and another who was given love and respect on his travels, regardless of his place of origin.

I know we are to not judge, love our neighbor, and find a bond in Christianity more than any other division, border, flag, or other. But within this, it even goes as far in a few passages to say that even those from other locations are children of God because a man from afar who cannot read is still a child of God, a foreigner is still a child of God, etc, etc, etc. Can't stress enough how many etceteras there are because the Bible is full of love for strangers, foreigners, and immigrants.

I would even go as far as saying that anyone using the Bible to discriminate against immigrants is not following the teachings whatsoever, and although i cannot judge, the Bible says we have an obligation to share what is true like I am here, and it is only up to the people to listen and act until the time of judgment.

So with all of this said, without judgment, we are obligated to understand that the laws and borders of men are not created by God, and following the laws that confine and separate us is exactly what we're warned against. Does it not say that the laws will be used to disguise evil as righteousness, or similar?

---

‘I am a stranger and an alien residing among you; give me property among you for a burying place, so that I may bury my dead out of my sight.’
Genesis 23:4

“You shall not oppress a sojourner. You know the heart of a sojourner, for you were sojourners in the land of Egypt."
Exodus 23:9 (ESV)

You shall also love the stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt.
Deuteronomy 10:19

“When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. 34 You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God."
Leviticus 19:33-34 (ESV)

‘Cursed is anyone who withholds justice from the foreigner, the fatherless or the widow.’ Then all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’
Deuteronomy 27:19 (NIV)

When they were few in number, of little account, and strangers in the land, wandering from nation to nation, from one kingdom to another people, he allowed no one to oppress them; he rebuked kings on their account, saying, ‘Do not touch my anointed ones; do my prophets no harm.’
1 Chronicles 16:19-22

I was eyes to the blind, and feet to the lame. I was a father to the needy, and I championed the cause of the stranger. I broke the fangs of the unrighteous, and made them drop their prey from their teeth.
Job 29:15-17

The Lord watches over the strangers; he upholds the orphan and the widow, but the way of the wicked he brings to ruin.
Psalm146:9

For if you truly amend your ways and your doings, if you truly act justly one with another, if you do not oppress the alien, the orphan, and the widow, or shed innocent blood in this place, and if you do not go after other gods to your own hurt, then I will dwell with you in this place, in the land that I gave of old to your ancestors forever and ever.
Jeremiah 7:5-7

You shall allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the aliens who reside among you and have begotten children among you. They shall be to you as citizens of Israel; with you they shall be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel.
Ezekiel 47:22

Thus says the Lord of hosts: Render true judgments, show kindness and mercy to one another; do not oppress the widow, the orphan, the alien, or the poor; and do not devise evil in your hearts against one another.
Zechariah 7:9-10

You have heard that it was said, ‘you shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy’. But I say to you, love your enemy and pray for those who persecute you.
Matthew 5:43-44

I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me.
Matthew 25:35

Truly I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of my brethren you did it to me.
Matthew 25:40

You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.
Luke 10:27

Then Peter began to speak to them: “I truly understand that God shows no partiality, but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.
Acts 10:34

Contribute to the needs of the saints; extend hospitality to strangers.
Romans 12:13

Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.
Romans 13:8

Love does no wrong to a neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Romans 13:10

In that renewal there is no longer Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and free; but Christ is all and in all.
Colossians 3:11

Let mutual love continue. Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by doing that some have entertained angels without knowing it. Remember those who are in prison, as though you were in prison with them; those who are being tortured, as though you yourselves were being tortured.
Hebrews 13:1-3

Beloved, you do faithfully whatever you do for the friends, even though they are strangers to you; they have testified to your love before the church. You do well to send them on in a manner worthy of God; for they began their journey for the sake of Christ, accepting no support from non-believers. Therefore we ought to support such people, so that they may become co-workers with the truth.
3 John 1:5-8

Love...does that mean letting mankind commit crimes and not receive consequences for them? Sounds unloving to the people they've committed crimes against.

 

[tango]

I recall a story about a man between Jericho and another who was given love and respect on his travels, regardless of his place of origin.

I know we are to not judge, love our neighbor, and find a bond in Christianity more than any other division, border, flag, or other. But within this, it even goes as far in a few passages to say that even those from other locations are children of God because a man from afar who cannot read is still a child of God, a foreigner is still a child of God, etc, etc, etc. Can't stress enough how many etceteras there are because the Bible is full of love for strangers, foreigners, and immigrants.

I would even go as far as saying that anyone using the Bible to discriminate against immigrants is not following the teachings whatsoever, and although i cannot judge, the Bible says we have an obligation to share what is true like I am here, and it is only up to the people to listen and act until the time of judgment.

So with all of this said, without judgment, we are obligated to understand that the laws and borders of men are not created by God, and following the laws that confine and separate us is exactly what we're warned against. Does it not say that the laws will be used to disguise evil as righteousness, or similar?

---

‘I am a stranger and an alien residing among you; give me property among you for a burying place, so that I may bury my dead out of my sight.’
Genesis 23:4

“You shall not oppress a sojourner. You know the heart of a sojourner, for you were sojourners in the land of Egypt."
Exodus 23:9 (ESV)

You shall also love the stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt.
Deuteronomy 10:19

“When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. 34 You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God."
Leviticus 19:33-34 (ESV)

‘Cursed is anyone who withholds justice from the foreigner, the fatherless or the widow.’ Then all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’
Deuteronomy 27:19 (NIV)

When they were few in number, of little account, and strangers in the land, wandering from nation to nation, from one kingdom to another people, he allowed no one to oppress them; he rebuked kings on their account, saying, ‘Do not touch my anointed ones; do my prophets no harm.’
1 Chronicles 16:19-22

I was eyes to the blind, and feet to the lame. I was a father to the needy, and I championed the cause of the stranger. I broke the fangs of the unrighteous, and made them drop their prey from their teeth.
Job 29:15-17

The Lord watches over the strangers; he upholds the orphan and the widow, but the way of the wicked he brings to ruin.
Psalm146:9

For if you truly amend your ways and your doings, if you truly act justly one with another, if you do not oppress the alien, the orphan, and the widow, or shed innocent blood in this place, and if you do not go after other gods to your own hurt, then I will dwell with you in this place, in the land that I gave of old to your ancestors forever and ever.
Jeremiah 7:5-7

You shall allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the aliens who reside among you and have begotten children among you. They shall be to you as citizens of Israel; with you they shall be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel.
Ezekiel 47:22

Thus says the Lord of hosts: Render true judgments, show kindness and mercy to one another; do not oppress the widow, the orphan, the alien, or the poor; and do not devise evil in your hearts against one another.
Zechariah 7:9-10

You have heard that it was said, ‘you shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy’. But I say to you, love your enemy and pray for those who persecute you.
Matthew 5:43-44

I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me.
Matthew 25:35

Truly I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of my brethren you did it to me.
Matthew 25:40

You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.
Luke 10:27

Then Peter began to speak to them: “I truly understand that God shows no partiality, but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.
Acts 10:34

Contribute to the needs of the saints; extend hospitality to strangers.
Romans 12:13

Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.
Romans 13:8

Love does no wrong to a neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Romans 13:10

In that renewal there is no longer Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and free; but Christ is all and in all.
Colossians 3:11

Let mutual love continue. Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by doing that some have entertained angels without knowing it. Remember those who are in prison, as though you were in prison with them; those who are being tortured, as though you yourselves were being tortured.
Hebrews 13:1-3

Beloved, you do faithfully whatever you do for the friends, even though they are strangers to you; they have testified to your love before the church. You do well to send them on in a manner worthy of God; for they began their journey for the sake of Christ, accepting no support from non-believers. Therefore we ought to support such people, so that they may become co-workers with the truth.
3 John 1:5-8

Every single one of those commandments is simple - "you shall". Not "you shall vote so that someone else is forced to"

How many people demanding unfettered immigration want to open their own homes to provide shelter for the people they purport to care for so much? How many of them want to feed them, to take responsibility for them? And how many simply expect Someone Else to pick up the tab for their largesse?

 

[Ghost]

Every single one of those commandments is simple - "you shall". Not "you shall vote so that someone else is forced to"

How many people demanding unfettered immigration want to open their own homes to provide shelter for the people they purport to care for so much? How many of them want to feed them, to take responsibility for them? And how many simply expect Someone Else to pick up the tab for their largesse?

I don't know any people asking for unfettered immigration personally, but I'm sure the answer is that there are some, but not many.

For me, everyone I know that is against what's going on just wants more procedural, lawful deportations. I don't know a single person who is literally asking for unfettered immigration, or open borders.

I also do want to point this out because it's a good way to look at it. Biden opened up title 42 expulsions and more immigrants left under him than most other Presidents.

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/sites/default/files/source_charts/pb-2024-deportations-fig1-repats.png

There's also the stat that in 2024, the democrat party deported 685,000 and in 2025, the republican party deported 605,000.

I wouldn't have brought up politics at all but you did mention 'vote'. Technically the more serious deporters were Clinton, Bush, and Biden with both Trump & Obama falling short. Just saying, so now you can see where your vote can go for this topic.

I'm all for deporting illegal immigrants with due process, lawful search & seizure, lawful arrest warrants, and preserving all Constitutional rights for targeted illegal immigrants (because ALL humans in U.S.A. have these rights, not just citizens), as well as ensuring all legal observers or public firearm carriers do not have their 1A, 2A, or 4A rights violated.

In other words, if we go off of the media, voting, and all that, then I have a strong opinion here because I think the country has completely lost its mind with this ridiculous, and often criminal shirade of "keeping us safe"... but that's 100% based on our laws, not deportation. If they wanted to round up every person carrying/using heroin to put them in rehab, my response would be identical: with due process, lawful search & seizure, lawful arrest warrants, and preserving all Constitutional rights for targeted addicts (because ALL humans in U.S.A. have these rights, not just sober people), as well as ensuring all legal observers or public firearm carriers do not have their 1A, 2A, or 4A rights violated.

Anyways, sorry for tangent, but your vote comment made me want to lay out the stats, our rights, godly laws, etc.

---


You shall... I understand where you're coming from, but if someone is voting to prevent others from helping immigrants, then isn't that technically a sin? Preventing someone from following the bible's God's commands, or Jesus' teachings?


Mark 9:38-42
38 John said to him, “Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in your name, and we tried to stop him because he was not following us.”

39 But Jesus said, “Do not stop him because no one who does a miracle in my name will be able soon afterward to say anything bad about me. 40 For whoever is not against us is for us. 41 For I tell you the truth, whoever gives you a cup of water because you bear Christ’s name will never lose his reward.
42 “If anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a huge millstone tied around his neck and to be thrown into the sea.



A vote to prevent refugee status or similar immigrations would cause the little ones who believe in Jesus to sin, possibly? A child cannot vote but would be prevented from helping someone in need, due to the vote of an adult.

So I agree, we can't just have open, unregulated borders that could endanger our kids. But we also can't have completely closed borders.

What we need is immigration reform.
What would Jesus answer to the question, "How many people should we help? How many is too much?"

Food for thought

 

[Ghost]

Love...does that mean letting mankind commit crimes and not receive consequences for them? Sounds unloving to the people they've committed crimes against.

I think we can prevent people from committing crimes and receiving consequences, of course.

I'm not trying to keep people here if they entered illegally. I just disagree with the current methods, but I am all for immigration legally and through the proper processes, and making sure that there is a safe entry point for a variety of reasons. But no, we should not let just anyone in if they can't follow our laws and border regulations, nor should we allow them to stay.

The important part is to let someone in, or deport someone out while still trying to be a good, humane person who respects the humanity in it all.

Afterall, if our families had to leave somewhere, or flee a violent, or uninhabitable situation, I think many would say the other city is full of sinners if they turned their back to us and left us to die or starve, or be abused, or in war, etc.

 

[Lamb]

I'm not trying to keep people here if they entered illegally. I just disagree with the current methods, but I am all for immigration legally and through the proper processes, and making sure that there is a safe entry point for a variety of reasons. But no, we should not let just anyone in if they can't follow our laws and border regulations, nor should we allow them to stay.

The important part is to let someone in, or deport someone out while still trying to be a good, humane person who respects the humanity in it all.

Afterall, if our families had to leave somewhere, or flee a violent, or uninhabitable situation, I think many would say the other city is full of sinners if they turned their back to us and left us to die or starve, or be abused, or in war, etc.

The current administration has offered to pay to send the illegal immigrants back home. I think that's loving.

Plus, they're also trying to get them while they're in jails, but the sanctuary cities are the ones fighting to keep them for some reason.

We keep hearing the legacy media tell us how it's the people who are fleeing a country...but if they were truly scared, they would have stayed in any country that let them! Plus, if you look at the videos of the people walking across the open Biden border, you'll see they're mostly young men! Then the Biden administration didn't even vet those people, meaning that's unloving to our own country to let in people we know nothing about!! So now we're finding out that there were a lot of bad people allowed into our country and they're committing heinous crimes against Americans, so it's loving to get them out of here.

 

[Frankj]

The current administration has offered to pay to send the illegal immigrants back home. I think that's loving.

Plus, they're also trying to get them while they're in jails, but the sanctuary cities are the ones fighting to keep them for some reason.

We keep hearing the legacy media tell us how it's the people who are fleeing a country...but if they were truly scared, they would have stayed in any country that let them! Plus, if you look at the videos of the people walking across the open Biden border, you'll see they're mostly young men! Then the Biden administration didn't even vet those people, meaning that's unloving to our own country to let in people we know nothing about!! So now we're finding out that there were a lot of bad people allowed into our country and they're committing heinous crimes against Americans, so it's loving to get them out of here.

Lamb, maybe it's time we quit trying to avoid the truth about recent illegal migration instead of trying to pretend it is not what it is by using avoidance of it in discussions.

The truth is simply that, for the vast majority of these migrants, they are not refugees from war torn countries or asylum seekers from oppressive countries where they are being persecuted for their ethnicity or religion or facing genocide or any other of the actually valid reasons that should be considered

They are not immigrants coming here to become Americans and build a productive future for themselves that will add to our country.

What they are, in regality, is an invasive movement from their home countries to ours with the intention of plunder and pillage of our economy and culture while staying what they are without any actual assimilation with the overall culture.

And allowing them to do this, particularly those promoting it in the name of Jesus, is not a Christian thing to do (missionary work to their countries to help them improve their country would be), it is a foolish thing that is being done and I see nowhere in the Bible that it says something to the effect of 'Go forth and make fools of yourselves in my name' which is what seems to be taking place.

God gave us something special in this country and we need to protect it, not throw it away and especially not throw it away in the name of Jesus.

 

[Ghost]

The current administration has offered to pay to send the illegal immigrants back home. I think that's loving.

Plus, they're also trying to get them while they're in jails, but the sanctuary cities are the ones fighting to keep them for some reason.

We keep hearing the legacy media tell us how it's the people who are fleeing a country...but if they were truly scared, they would have stayed in any country that let them! Plus, if you look at the videos of the people walking across the open Biden border, you'll see they're mostly young men! Then the Biden administration didn't even vet those people, meaning that's unloving to our own country to let in people we know nothing about!! So now we're finding out that there were a lot of bad people allowed into our country and they're committing heinous crimes against Americans, so it's loving to get them out of here.

The stats show that Biden deported more people than Trump ever did, including more in 2024 vs 2025. Yes, many did come in, but i don't think it's fair to say that it's 100% his fault.

For example i can clearly remember when Republicans decided to filibuster a bill, preventing immigration reform in 2024, specifically so that they could continue the rhetoric that immigration is a Democrat problem and not a country problem. It's not as simple to say it's Biden's fault or Trump's fault because there are thousands of people involved.

In this case, our current gov's incompetence is more of a reason for ICE/DOJ's failings than anyone else. Peaceful protests are legal, carrying firearms in protests is legal, and observing law enforcement is legal.

State's rights exist. The Republicans screamed about state's rights to get abortion returned to states. If the life of a baby is up to the states to decide, certainly the life of an adult immigrant can be too.

The problem is that the current process is a failing process.
The number of immigration assigned attorneys dropped from 10K to 5K, and they increased ICE presence.

The issue now is that they can hold for 72 hours, but they need to actually bring each person to immigration court.
Since they ramped up the arrests, but decreased the ability to process the cases, they are deporting less and less, especially as more and more quit.

They are in a pickle lol, a legal pickle. They have completely screwed over their own efforts, pretty much out of incompetence.

Anyways, I am going to drop here, I think that this conversation will continue to escalate because there are strong opinions on both sides. The most important thing is that the law is followed and the law states that without a signed warrant, they cannot arrest. Without true probable cause (being at a protest is *not*, as ordered by federal Judges, including Trump-appointed judges), a stop is illegal. Without this, search & seizure is illegal.

As long as due process is followed, all is good, and if it takes them 200+ years to process the immigration cases, they should stop hiring ICE and hire lawyers instead.

That's the law, that's peace, that's America. Law & Order, not plenary authority from incompetent officials who have no clue how to actually run a gov....

Anyways, I will engage in other threads, but not this one.

It is of my opinion, without judgment, that people who are generalizing millions of immigrants as criminals have absolutely no grasp on reality, and are not in line with Christ.

To your credit, simply rephrasing to say "there are millions of immigrants and until they see their day in court, they are all innocent until proven guilty, and we should deport people here illegally" would be loving....

But categorizing them all as criminals when most have never seen a court room to prove that is NOT love, it is prejudice or racist, or at best it is ignorant.

 

[Maranatha]

Some interesting comments
But it is not as black and white as some here believe.
Instead of going into more details I want to look at the bigger picture from a Biblical point of view

In the OT Israel had a Land flowing with Milk and Honey, with David as their King.
But after a while they drifted more and more away from God and fell into sin.
The prophets called for repentance or face the consequences, but the people didn't listen.
The Kingdom finally split. The Northern Kingdom was invaded by the Assyrians and later on the Southern part went to Babylon into captivity.

We now see many similarities today
We have been drifting further and further away from God.
Godly preachers like Leonard Ravenhill warned us decades ago about God's Judgement.
I believe many of those "Immigrants" that we all have in our countries are the modern day "Assyriens".
And I believe the over all situation will only get worse, a lot worse in all our countries.
We should all be very concerned.
But I don't want to go into further details and go off-topic.
Just wanted to change the focus a bit.

 

[tango]

I don't know any people asking for unfettered immigration personally, but I'm sure the answer is that there are some, but not many.

For me, everyone I know that is against what's going on just wants more procedural, lawful deportations. I don't know a single person who is literally asking for unfettered immigration, or open borders.

I also do want to point this out because it's a good way to look at it. Biden opened up title 42 expulsions and more immigrants left under him than most other Presidents.

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/sites/default/files/source_charts/pb-2024-deportations-fig1-repats.png

There's also the stat that in 2024, the democrat party deported 685,000 and in 2025, the republican party deported 605,000.

I wouldn't have brought up politics at all but you did mention 'vote'. Technically the more serious deporters were Clinton, Bush, and Biden with both Trump & Obama falling short. Just saying, so now you can see where your vote can go for this topic.

I'm all for deporting illegal immigrants with due process, lawful search & seizure, lawful arrest warrants, and preserving all Constitutional rights for targeted illegal immigrants (because ALL humans in U.S.A. have these rights, not just citizens), as well as ensuring all legal observers or public firearm carriers do not have their 1A, 2A, or 4A rights violated.

In other words, if we go off of the media, voting, and all that, then I have a strong opinion here because I think the country has completely lost its mind with this ridiculous, and often criminal shirade of "keeping us safe"... but that's 100% based on our laws, not deportation. If they wanted to round up every person carrying/using heroin to put them in rehab, my response would be identical: with due process, lawful search & seizure, lawful arrest warrants, and preserving all Constitutional rights for targeted addicts (because ALL humans in U.S.A. have these rights, not just sober people), as well as ensuring all legal observers or public firearm carriers do not have their 1A, 2A, or 4A rights violated.

Anyways, sorry for tangent, but your vote comment made me want to lay out the stats, our rights, godly laws, etc.

---


You shall... I understand where you're coming from, but if someone is voting to prevent others from helping immigrants, then isn't that technically a sin? Preventing someone from following the bible's God's commands, or Jesus' teachings?


Mark 9:38-42
38 John said to him, “Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in your name, and we tried to stop him because he was not following us.”

39 But Jesus said, “Do not stop him because no one who does a miracle in my name will be able soon afterward to say anything bad about me. 40 For whoever is not against us is for us. 41 For I tell you the truth, whoever gives you a cup of water because you bear Christ’s name will never lose his reward.
42 “If anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a huge millstone tied around his neck and to be thrown into the sea.



A vote to prevent refugee status or similar immigrations would cause the little ones who believe in Jesus to sin, possibly? A child cannot vote but would be prevented from helping someone in need, due to the vote of an adult.

So I agree, we can't just have open, unregulated borders that could endanger our kids. But we also can't have completely closed borders.

What we need is immigration reform.
What would Jesus answer to the question, "How many people should we help? How many is too much?"

Food for thought

I have known a few people whose attitude is that we should allow as many people in as will physically fit, or variations on that theme. Needless to say not a single one of them wanted to open their own home to house even one such immigrant.

When I applied for my immigrant visa my wife had to sponsor me, we had to demonstrate that we had the means to support ourselves, and my wife had to sign a personal guarantee to repay any public funds I received within the first 10 years of living here. Even if we had divorced during those 10 years, she was personally responsible to repay anything I took in the form of public welfare. As an immigrant myself, and as one who personally sponsored an immigrant in my home country before leaving, I'm certainly not opposed to immigration. I just have very little time for a situation in which people can arrive unchecked, break laws here, and still have armies of people insisting they can't be deported because, oh, ah, reasons.

Perhaps immigration reform needs to be along the lines of personal sponsorship. Jesus told us to love each other, that instruction was never given to the government. So if you want to love someone from a war-torn hellhole or an impoverished third world nation, go right ahead and sponsor them for a visa. I'm in this country by choice and by invitation. I don't make a habit of breaking the law here - if I decided to start killing people, raping women, robbing elderly folks in the street etc I shouldn't be surprised if my invitation to be here is withdrawn. Someone who is allegedly fleeing their homeland in fear of their life seems unlikely to thank their new host nation for the opportunity by committing serious crimes.

How many people should we help? Well, how many people would you like to help? Perhaps we should look at some of this at a more individual level than simply making demands with the assumption that Someone Else will do the work and pick up the tab.

 

[jswauto]

Some interesting comments
But it is not as black and white as some here believe.
Instead of going into more details I want to look at the bigger picture from a Biblical point of view

In the OT Israel had a Land flowing with Milk and Honey, with David as their King.
But after a while they drifted more and more away from God and fell into sin.
The prophets called for repentance or face the consequences, but the people didn't listen.
The Kingdom finally split. The Northern Kingdom was invaded by the Assyrians and later on the Southern part went to Babylon into captivity.

We now see many similarities today
We have been drifting further and further away from God.
Godly preachers like Leonard Ravenhill warned us decades ago about God's Judgement.
I believe many of those "Immigrants" that we all have in our countries are the modern day "Assyriens".
And I believe the over all situation will only get worse, a lot worse in all our countries.
We should all be very concerned.
But I don't want to go into further details and go off-topic.
Just wanted to change the focus a bit.

It's all black and white.! As far as similarities look at these:

The Nine Harbingers

__________________________________________ LIGHT TO THE NATIONS The massive scale of the 9/11 attack on the World Trade Center made for startling images and a new frightening, sober reality for...

theharbingerproject.weebly.com

Jonathan Cahn: The Harbinger

Jonathan Cahn: The Harbinger

cbn.com

 

[hobie]

Every single one of those commandments is simple - "you shall". Not "you shall vote so that someone else is forced to"

How many people demanding unfettered immigration want to open their own homes to provide shelter for the people they purport to care for so much? How many of them want to feed them, to take responsibility for them? And how many simply expect Someone Else to pick up the tab for their largesse?

They don't want them in their town, they talk the talk but forget the walk....

 

[Maranatha]

But it is not as black and white as some here believe.

Here is just one many reports to show you what I mean

Godly preachers like Leonard Ravenhill warned us decades ago about God's Judgement.

But we don't seem to listen or understand....just "as in the days of Noah"