Infant Baptism

Josiah

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This comes from the LCMS website:



Infants are included in "all nations" who are to be baptized (Matt. 28:19). Certainly they were included in Peter's Pentecost exhortation in Acts 2:38, 39: "Repent and be baptized everyone one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins....The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off–for all whom the Lord our God will call."

Whole households, everyone in the family, were baptized in the beginning of New Testament times, which in all probability included infants (Acts 16:15 and 33). [The "household" formula used here by Luke has Old Testament precedent, with special reference also to small children, as for example in 1 Sam. 22:16, 19; see Joachim Jeremias, Infant Baptism in the First Four Centuries, 22-23.] In Romans 6, the Holy Spirit tells us in the Word that in Baptism we have been united with Jesus' death and resurrection–regenerated, dying to sin and rising to new life. That happens to infants when baptized (Gal. 3:27). "For as many of you who have been baptized have put on Christ." Baptism through the Word creates the faith necessary to receive salvation for infants. Infants can have faith. In Mark 10:14 Jesus said, "Let the little children come to Me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these." The Greek word in this text is "paidia" which means babes in arms. Infants can belong to the kingdom of God. "From the lips of children and infants, You have ordained praise...." Psalm 8:2. "Yet You brought me out of the womb, You made me trust in You even at my mother's breast" Psalm 22:9.

From the beginning of New Testament Christianity at Pentecost to our time, unbroken and uninterrupted, the Church has baptized babies. Polycarp (69-155 AD), a disciple of the Apostle John, was baptized as an infant. Justin Martyr (100-166 AD) of the next generation, about the year 150 AD, states in his Dialog with Trypho The Jew that Baptism is the circumcision of the New Testament." Irenaeus (130-200 AD) writes in Against Heresies II 22:4 that Jesus came to save all through means of Himself &mdash all, I say, who through Him are born again to God – infants and children, boys and youth, and old men."

Similar expressions are found in succeeding generations by Origen (185-254 AD) and Cyprian (215-258 AD), and at the Council of Carthage in 254 where the 66 bishops stated: "We ought not hinder any person from Baptism and the grace of God ... especially infants ... those newly born." Origen wrote in his Commentary on Romans 5:9: "For this also it was that the Church had from the Apostles a tradition to give baptism even to infants." Origen also wrote in his Homily on Luke 14: "Infants are to be baptized for the remission of sins." Cyprian's reply to a bishop who wrote to him regarding the baptism of infants stated: "Should we wait until the 8th day as did the Jews in the circumcision? No, the child should be baptized as soon as it is born."

Augustine (354-430 AD) wrote in De Genesi Ad Literam, 10:39 declared, "The custom of our mother Church in baptizing infants must not be counted needless, nor believed to be other than a tradition of the Apostles." Augustine further states: "... the whole Church which hastens to baptize infants, because it unhesitatingly believes that otherwise they cannot possibly be vivified in Christ. In 517 AD, 10 rules of discipline were framed for the Church in Spain. The fifth rule states that "... in case infants were ill ... if they were offered, to baptize them, even though it were the day that they were born...such was to be done." (The History of Baptism by Robert Robinson, London, Thomas Knott, 1790, p.269)

This pattern of baptizing infants remained in Christianity through the Dark and Middle Ages until modern times. In the 1,500 years from the time of Christ to the Protestant Reformation, the only bona fide opponent to infant Baptism was the heretic Tertullian (160-215 AD) who de facto denied original sin. Then in the 1520s the Christian Church experienced opposition specifically to infant Baptism under the influence of Thomas Muenzer and other fanatics who opposed both civil and religious authority, original sin and human concupiscence. Thomas' opposition was then embraced by a considerable number of Swiss, German and Dutch Anabaptists. This brought about strong warning and renunciation by the Roman Catholics, Lutherans and Reformed alike. It was considered a shameless affront to what had been practiced in each generation since Christ's command in the Great Commission (Matt. 28:18-20) to baptize all nations irrespective of age. Historical excerpts are from "Infant Baptism in Early Church History," by Dr. Dennis Kastens in Issues Etc. Journal, Spring 1997, Vol. 2, No. 3.



.


Beginning with the Anabaptist movement in the late 16th Century, this practice came to be challenged by a few Christians - and continues to be, especially by SOME "Evangelicals" especially in the USA.


Thoughts?


- Josiah





.
 

psalms 91

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I dont believe in it but at the same time I dont think it hurts anything either
 

Alithis

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I dont believe in it but at the same time I don't think it hurts anything either

there is ZERO biblical basis for infant baptism .

it is not baptism into christ but into a religious spirit or organization . it cannot and does not save .i say this with the confidence that the clear unambiguous scripture says it .

REPENT and be BAPTISED for the remission of sin.. baptism without repentance is nothing more then swimming . and sprinkling is even less then taking a poor shower .
i don't know about you lot but iv not meet a baby that was able to repent of sin in order to then Be baptised .

i do wish people would read the scriptures and know that what the lord Jesus said is true and simply means what he says .
 

ImaginaryDay2

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If by "This brought about strong warning and renunciation by the Roman Catholics, Lutherans and Reformed alike" they mean wholesale slaughter, then I agree. Although I accept infant baptism, this is certainly a dark stain in the history of "Roman Catholics, Lutherans, and Reformed alike". Thankfully, they've recognized these heinous crimes.
 

psalms 91

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there is ZERO biblical basis for infant baptism .

it is not baptism into christ but into a religious spirit or organization . it cannot and does not save .i say this with the confidence that the clear unambiguous scripture says it .

REPENT and be BAPTISED for the remission of sin.. baptism without repentance is nothing more then swimming . and sprinkling is even less then taking a poor shower .
i don't know about you lot but iv not meet a baby that was able to repent of sin in order to then Be baptised .

i do wish people would read the scriptures and know that what the lord Jesus said is true and simply means what he says .
Totally agree and that is why I said I dont believe in it
 

ImaginaryDay2

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it is not baptism into christ but into a religious spirit or organization.

Gal. 3:27:

As many of you as were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. (NRSV)
(F)or all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. (NIV)
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. (KJV)
For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. (ESV)
For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. (NASB)
...Your baptism in Christ was not just washing you up for a fresh start. It also involved dressing you in an adult faith wardrobe—Christ’s life... (MSG)
(A)nd we who have been baptized into union with Christ are enveloped by him. (Living Bible)

Next...
 

Josiah

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it is not baptism into christ but into a religious spirit or organization

Well, the organization of Christ and His Body... but I agree, baptism has nothing to do with joining a denomination.



say this with the confidence that the clear unambiguous scripture says it .

"Baptism now saves you." I read that somewhere.... in a book.



iv not meet a baby that was able to repent of sin in order to then Be baptised .

There is NOTHING in Scripture about repentance being a prerequisite for baptism. Or attaining a certain age or IQ or educational level. Or any gender or ethnicity.



i do wish people would read the scriptures and know that what the lord Jesus said is true and simply means what he says .


Me, too. Then they would cease with the mandates missing in Scripture.



Thank you!


Pax


- Josiah
 

Alithis

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Gal. 3:27:

As many of you as were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. (NRSV)
(F)or all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. (NIV)
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. (KJV)
For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. (ESV)
For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. (NASB)
...Your baptism in Christ was not just washing you up for a fresh start. It also involved dressing you in an adult faith wardrobe—Christ’s life... (MSG)
(A)nd we who have been baptized into union with Christ are enveloped by him. (Living Bible)

Next...

yes ..as many of you as were baptized into "christ" - not into a denominational organisation without your knowledge or will .

an infant child can not make an informed decision to repent of sin and then choose to obey and be baptized .. so it has not been baptized into christ upon his or her own faith .. he or she is not saved until they do "repent and be baptized ". so you can dip them in water until every one turns blue in the face .. it won't mean a thing -we have to obey the word of God .. not make up our own fairy tale traditions and then superimpose them over the word of God . Gods is not fooled by that .
when they reach an age of understanding they must then repent and be baptised into christ's death and resurrection.. death signified by full immersion ,resurrection by coming up out of the waters .
then they will be saved - as the lord has commanded -"repent and be baptized for the remission of sin" - not my words ..they are his words .
 

Alithis

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Well, the organization of Christ and His Body... but I agree, baptism has nothing to do with joining a denomination.





"Baptism now saves you." I read that somewhere.... in a book.





There is NOTHING in Scripture about repentance being a prerequisite for baptism. Or attaining a certain age or IQ or educational level. Or any gender or ethnicity.






Me, too. Then they would cease with the mandates missing in Scripture.



Thank you!


Pax


- Josiah

umm do you actually read the bible ? i am beginning to wonder ..
lets look at your three points and address them with SCRIPTURE !
we don't even need a lot of scripture to do so ..

1. you say (with sarcasm i assume)- "Baptism now saves you." I read that somewhere.... in a book.
your right, the book is the bible -it says ..."what must we do to be saved ? - repent and be baptised for the remission of sin and you shall receive the holy ghost "-cant get saved if you have unforgiven sin -end

2. YOU say - "There is NOTHING in Scripture about repentance being a prerequisite for baptism."

the bible says ... "repent and be baptised for the remission of sin and you shall receive the holy ghost "-repentance alwaysprecedes baptism- so saying there is NOTHING in scripture is PLAIN WRONG ..there it is right there .


3. i said -i do wish people would read the scriptures and know that what the lord Jesus said is true and simply means what he says .

YOU REPLY - "Me, too. Then they would cease with the mandates missing in Scripture."
so now i GIVE you the mandate yo seem to think is missing from scripture (beats me what bible you read it seems to have a lot of pages missing ) here what mine says...."what must we do to be saved ? - repent and be baptised for the remission of sin and you shall receive the holy ghost "

please read your bible .
 
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Josiah

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1. you say (with sarcasm i assume)- "Baptism now saves you." I read that somewhere.... in a book.

your right, the book is the bible -it says ..."what must we do to be saved ? - repent and be baptised for the remission of sin and you shall receive the holy ghost "


No. I did NOT say "baptism now saves you." I read it in a book. I was verbatim quoting from a book. You ignored the statement and the source.


Again, your entire premise is a falsehood, a violation of elementary English grammar. You need people to go along with your violation and accept that the word "and" mandates order. It does not. Not in English. Not in koine Greek. Not in Aramaic. Not in Hebrew. Thus, not in Scripture. "And" ("kai" here) is THE most generic, NON specific connector in the Greek language - it simply connects, it in NO WAY WHATSOEVER mandates or even remotely implies order. You know that. We all know that. Your premise is false, absurd, silly. I could write, "I got up this morning, went to the bathroom, got dressed, made coffee and fed the bunny." All true - but I didn't do these in that order - nor does the word "and" mandate that that was the precise order. YOU are simply changing Scripture - removing the word "kai" and replacing it with words that fit your prohibitions (rude, actually). It says "AND" not "THEN."

Yup, the book says, "Baptism now saves you."




2. YOU say - "There is NOTHING in Scripture about repentance being a prerequisite for baptism."

the bible says ... "repent and be baptised for the remission of sin and you shall receive the holy ghost." repentance always precedes baptism- so saying there is NOTHING in scripture is PLAIN WRONG ..there it is right there .


You just proved my point (thank you). And as you know (everyone does), "and" is a connector that has NOTHING to do with order. You just delete what God said and replace it with what you desire.

You have nothing that says, "repentance must precede Baptism." You prove it.... SCRIPTURE doesn't say that, YOU do. You persistently make the difference obvious.




3. i said -i do wish people would read the scriptures and know that what the lord Jesus said is true and simply means what he says .

YOU REPLY - "Me, too. Then they would cease with the mandates missing in Scripture."

here what mine says...."what must we do to be saved ? - repent and be baptised for the remission of sin and you shall receive the holy ghost "


Exactly. Thus your foundational error. It says "AND" not "THEN." Your whole premise rests on a silly falsehood, a violation of elementary English grammar.... the silly idea that "and" mandates order, which as you and all 7.2 billion people on the planet know has NOTHING to do with order, much less mandating it.

You keep proving you have NOTHING in Scripture to support your prohibition.




- Josiah
 
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TurtleHare

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Those who don't believe in infant baptism don't believe God is capable of doing anything through it and neglect the fact that it is "be baptized" which is passive and proves something is happening to them yet man is arrogant and wants to think he is doing something to please God. "Look at me and all I am doing for you, Lord!"

Josiah, awesome point about "and" which is an entirely different word with different meaning than "then". It isn't chronological. How about Matthew 28?
 

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No. I did NOT say "baptism now saves you." I read it in a book. I was verbatim quoting from a book. You ignored the statement and the source.


Again, your entire premise is a falsehood, a violation of elementary English grammar. You need people to go along with your violation and accept that the word "and" mandates order. It does not. Not in English. Not in koine Greek. Not in Aramaic. Not in Hebrew. Thus, not in Scripture. "And" ("kai" here) is THE most generic, NON specific connector in the Greek language - it simply connects, it in NO WAY WHATSOEVER mandates or even remotely implies order. You know that. We all know that. Your premise is false, absurd, silly. I could write, "I got up this morning, went to the bathroom, got dressed, made coffee and fed the bunny." All true - but I didn't do these in that order - nor does the word "and" mandate that that was the precise order. YOU are simply changing Scripture - removing the word "kai" and replacing it with words that fit your prohibitions (rude, actually). It says "AND" not "THEN."

Yup, the book says, "Baptism now saves you."







You just proved my point (thank you). And as you know (everyone does), "and" is a connector that has NOTHING to do with order. You just delete what God said and replace it with what you desire.

You have nothing that says, "repentance must precede Baptism." You prove it.... SCRIPTURE doesn't say that, YOU do. You persistently make the difference obvious.







Exactly. Thus your foundational error. It says "AND" not "THEN." Your whole premise rests on a silly falsehood, a violation of elementary English grammar.... the silly idea that "and" mandates order, which as you and all 7.2 billion people on the planet know has NOTHING to do with order, much less mandating it.

You keep proving you have NOTHING in Scripture to support your prohibition.




- Josiah

what a load of waffle .. and or then.. - same order same mandate same scripture same truth.. your just putting your fingers in your ears and going nah nah nah can't hear you .
you know darn well the command given is to REPENT and be baptised .. to be baptised you must choose to obey god that means you are choosing to turn away from SIN it is repentance -something a baby canot do ,that is the topic remember ..infant baptism .
so when you find me a baya that can acknowledge faith in the lord JEsus ..acknowledge sin turn from it and be baptised on its own faith . please , let me know -it will be the first ever .
 

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Those who don't believe in infant baptism don't believe God is capable of doing anything through it and neglect the fact that it is "be baptized" which is passive and proves something is happening to them yet man is arrogant and wants to think he is doing something to please God. "Look at me and all I am doing for you, Lord!"

Josiah, awesome point about "and" which is an entirely different word with different meaning than "then". It isn't chronological. How about Matthew 28?

yes how about matthew 28 .. lets read it shall we .Or do you deem reading the scripture to be a work also ?something you just do so we can say look at me lord ? ridiculous to imply it !
here is what matthew states on the topic =
Jesus came and told his disciples, “I have been given all authority in heaven and on earth. Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Teach these new disciples to obey all the commands I have given you. And be sure of this: I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” and the first command contained in the GOSPEL is REPENT ... interesting isn't it . you see you simply cannot take a single sentence and build a theology on it .you must couple it with ALL scripture.

a disciple is one who chooses to lay down his own life in order to follow and learn to become like his master .an infant can do none of this ,can not make any such informed decision nor be conscious of any need to do so by the conviction of the holy Spirit .
yes ,sure, you may jump in with verses about children being sanctified by their believing parents (if you've got around to reading your bibles ) and this is absolutely true while the child is in the age of innocence. but once they reach an age of understanding it is a lie to tell them they are saved because they were baptized or sprinkled as a child .an outright lie that has absolutely NO scriptural basis ,a doctrine of devils to deceive and send them to hell . a doctrine of falsehood to hold them bound under the control of a denomination. the age of understanding is not easily definable but it is usually known by the arrival of shame -{but im not confident you're mature enough to have that explained to you -best if you have 30 more years and have some children grow up first }

I'm assuming you think baptism is merely a symbolic act ,in which case you have really not yet understood anything about it(amazingly few do-not by their own fault.the denominations have simply not taught what they don't know themselves . - but then i was also that way until the lord Corrected me on the issue . the crossing of the red sea -that was a symbol of baptism to come .. the baptism that has now come ..is power ..not symbol . the serpent lifted up on the pole was a symbol of the cross .. the cross that came is power to set free from sins poison of death. .

baptism is NOT just a symbol it is part and parcel of repentance .. the command is repent and be baptised .. so to remain on topic - when you find a baby that can acknowledge its need for salvation and ask to baptised on its own Faith .. by all means- go ahead and immerse it in water .
but until a person acknowledges their sin and need of salvation and puts their faith in the lord JESUS .. to do so in nothing more then wetting them .
 

Josiah

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you know darn well the command given is to REPENT and be baptised ..

RIGHT! Not "repent then be baptized." Your entire premise is based, founded, built on removing the word in Scripture and replacing it with an entirely, completely, totally different one.




.
 

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RIGHT! Not "repent then be baptized." Your entire premise is based, founded, built on removing the word in Scripture and replacing it with an entirely, completely, totally different one.




.

yes repent AND be .. so ? whats your point .. one still precedes the other no mater how much you word play it .

does it ever say be baptised and repent OR does it ever say be baptised "then" repent .. nope !

repent always precedes baptism without fail . One canot be baptised if one is not repentant . if there is no repentance then the baptism has no meaning -its just getting wet .
 

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Matthew 28...for those stuck thinking order is important says baptize and teach. That's the recipe for making a disciple according to the one in charge and I can't wait to share this next part cuz it says "All nations" and I don't know of a single nation that exists without babies.
 

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RIGHT! Not "repent then be baptized." Your entire premise is based, founded, built on removing the word in Scripture and replacing it with an entirely, completely, totally different one.




.

again, word play which does not change any meaning splitting hairs and changing nothing ,proving nothing . you have not changed that in the scripture repentance precedes baptism in water ,, one cannot be baptised without repentance of sin .. as it is disobedient to not get baptised once you are aware of the command to do so . and disobedience is sin .. so one must stop disobeying in order to OBEY and be baptised . so playing with the word and and then ,, changes absolutely NOTHING .it waffling .
could you perhaps state your scriptural verse that says be baptised but do not repent ? - no .. of course you can't .Because there is no such scriptural directive as it would be fully contradictory to what has alreayd been sated and God does not contradict his own word .
 

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Matthew 28...for those stuck thinking order is important says baptize and teach. That's the recipe for making a disciple according to the one in charge and I can't wait to share this next part cuz it says "All nations" and I don't know of a single nation that exists without babies.

yes matthew 28- "im not afraid to quote it all and if required the supporting text from the other Gospels

it reads as follows :Jesus came and told his disciples, “I have been given all authority in heaven and on earth. Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Teach these new disciples to obey all the commands I have given you. And be sure of this: I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

so firstly we are to "make disciples of all nations ".. what you are weakly trying to twist it to mean is "make all nations disciples" .. but sorry ..it does not say that and you know it does not .this is supported fully in scripture by the truth that not all people will be saved so it is impossible to make all nations disciples .so trying to say this is validation for baptising non repentant unaware uninformed babies is nothing short of a ridiculous argument . you may as well suggest we can baptise our pets and they wil then be saved as they are also unrepentant unaware and uninformed.
secondly he clearly says teach them to OBEY all the commands i have given you .. and among the first of these commands is the command to "repent "and be baptised for the remission of sin. and that repentance for the forgivness of sin is to be preached .

when i suggest people read their bible . i do so assuming they also believe it over and above the word of mere Men .
 

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If you could stop being so condescending toward others in your posts, that'd be great. Repent.

There is Law and Gospel in Matthew that shouldn't be ignored or confused between the two and Josiah has made some great efforts to remind people about that. Thank you, Josiah for trying and for helping people.

yes matthew 28- "im not afraid to quote it all and if required the supporting text from the other Gospels

it reads as follows :Jesus came and told his disciples, “I have been given all authority in heaven and on earth. Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Teach these new disciples to obey all the commands I have given you. And be sure of this: I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

so firstly we are to "make disciples of all nations ".. what you are weakly trying to twist it to mean is "make all nations disciples" .. but sorry ..it does not say that and you know it does not .this is supported fully in scripture by the truth that not all people will be saved so it is impossible to make all nations disciples .so trying to say this is validation for baptising non repentant unaware uninformed babies is nothing short of a ridiculous argument . you may as well suggest we can baptise our pets and they wil then be saved as they are also unrepentant unaware and uninformed.
secondly he clearly says teach them to OBEY all the commands i have given you .. and among the first of these commands is the command to "repent "and be baptised for the remission of sin. and that repentance for the forgivness of sin is to be preached .

when i suggest people read their bible . i do so assuming they also believe it over and above the word of mere Men .
 
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