When people say I'm a Christian but...

[Lamb]

When people say "I'm a Christian but..." do you still think they're a Christian?

 

[tango]

When people say "I'm a Christian but..." do you still think they're a Christian?

It depends what follows the but.

I've come across a few strange misconceptions about what Christians are like in the world, and more than a few people who are Christians who give the impression you have to be on your best behavior around them (I suspect at least some of those have their own strange ideas about having to be perfect, so act like they are perfect, resulting in others around them feeling like they need to be perfect as well).

If someone says "I'm a Christian but I still go to strip clubs and sleep with my secretary" that's a very different proposition to someone saying "I'm a Christian but that doesn't stop me going to the bar to watch the football game".

 

[prism]

When people say "I'm a Christian but..." do you still think they're a Christian?

depends what comes after the 'but'. Some will want to know what is meant by the term 'Christian', as many have some strange ideas of what is meant by a Christian.

 

[just_legalism]

Eh. They may be new Christians who don't understand what it means to truly be Christian. As phrases like "I'm X but," or "I'm not Y, but," are usually proceeded by something very Y/X sounding (respectively)

 

[Frankj]

Well, I'm a Christian but I've lived a different sort of life than most and often see being a Christian differently than most do.

 

[jswauto]

Dear Lord,
We pray your Holy Spirit upon us in every situation that we lift you up continually;
doing your will, praising your Holy Name, rejecting and casting out all evil attacking us
in Jesus' Mighty Name!

 

[Frankj]

We are told that a tree is known by the fruit it produces.

 

[Lamb]

We are told that a tree is known by the fruit it produces.

Only God can truly see the fruit, so that can be deceptive to human eyes, right?

 

[Frankj]

Only God can truly see the fruit, so that can be deceptive to human eyes, right?

An interesting idea, but why would we have been told that if we weren't meant to use it in our worldview?

Many places in the Bible tell us to beware of the evils around us and how it can deceive, was this not told to us so that we could judge what is being presented to us by the world to either embrace or avoid it accordingly?

The way I see it, we are to judge the world and what is done in it, the 'fruit' of the tree, the actions of men and their results, but not the soul of any man because that is outside of our given authority.

This is something of some import, think about how often we hear people claiming Christianity say things to the effect of "Well, he's in Hell now" without the slightest thought that they are usurping God's authority to be the sole judge of his soul when we do it.

And here's the critical part of the self examination we might do if looking at ourselves in this regard: Jesus taught us that even thinking this is the same sin as actually doing it in God's eyes.

If anyone ever tells you that being Christian is easy, or gets easier as you go along, they are mistaken.

 

[Edward429451]

When people say "I'm a Christian but..." do you still think they're a Christian?

I never really thought about it. It don't really pop into my mind? But the premise being, someone want to identify as Christian and express faith and come have coffee cake cake after the service (Lol), usually has one or more of their favorite sins in the world that they're holding on too. and so, I couldn't know, maybe they are saved, maybe they are not? But Jesus said, come out of the world, my people! One can not serve two Masters. And...I think Jesus said He will spew them from His mouth, I never knew you. But, that's between him and God. Not my business!

I had a guy start talking to me on a different christian forum and he said something very smlar to what you said, and we started talking and I could perceive that he must have concealed sin in his life...

But he was talking cool with me and IIRC, I told him the same thing, but I spoke in a light third party way, so I wasn't accusing him, but suggesting that, it might be the problem. A favorite sin...and that guy, Wow, he picked it right up and said, you're right, you got me fair and square, I've been having sex with my 30 yr old step daughter...!!

Too much info! Too much Info! Lol. I have to respect his candor. I told, yeah, you best stop that and repent from it and confess it.

So ever since then, I take it around a different way and dont approach being judgmental, but rather keep it light and speak roundabout, at least you get filled in with some of the bigger picture of them
I've also noticed that real Sons & Daughters of God shine a light right through internet forums and identify them self quickly. I like those people, I learn from them and have good conversation with them.

Anyone else, well, who knows if they are a real Christian or not? Only God knows, we are all on the same path, the yellow brick road so to speak, and some folks are behind us on the path, and other folks are way ahead of us on the path!

 

[Edward429451]

Only God can truly see the fruit, so that can be deceptive to human eyes, right?

But of course...

So one begins to sing to His Lord....

Open the Eyes of my Heart, Lord. Open the Eyes of my Heart, I want to seee you...

 

[Edward429451]

Only God can truly see the fruit, so that can be deceptive to human eyes, right?

With proper perspective, why would it be?

Who's your favorit Teacher/Pastor to listen to with the Words Message?

Why is he your favorite?
Does he speak directly to you sometimes (it seems)?
Did you ever get a Revelation from him? He said something, just the right way and you went, Yeah...

That, is seeing with the eyes of your heart. It was the Lord speaking to you, Holy Spirit, Jesus, the LORD! and you felt it. You understand down to the very core of your being, that, what was just said is right, truth...

Our Heart is very important, so we were advised, guard your Heart Diligently...As a man thinks in his heart so is he. Scripture says our Heart controls the direction of our life. Scripture also makes reference to the eyes of the heart, and if that's true, then...Believing is seeing, Seeing isn't Believing. So the little girl in Miracle on 34th street got it right! (Except His Name is, Jesus!)

The Medical people and scientific community has made new discoveries abut the heart, our flesh heart. They have a big write up on it, they say, the heart "thinks" on it's own and not only that but works very similar to the brain and can send and receive signals and they said the heart does this at four times the power of our brain. They have instruments that can pick it up wirelessly, and they can pick up on the heart a lot further away than the brain ever could.
(HeartMath.Org)

When I started learning that stuffit showed new meaning in that song, Open The Eyes of my Heart, Lord. And then the scripture came to mind, look to the unseen...so, my advice is to pay closer attention to you spirit, soul and heart!

Who said that? That's my spirit talking. Inside of you. The Kingdom of Heaven, is at hand...!! Closer than you think. But you must Believe it and reach for it. Reach for, Him. He's there.

 

[tango]

Only God can truly see the fruit, so that can be deceptive to human eyes, right?

Only God can see the fruit? Jesus told us that we would know people by their fruit, so presumably we can see it too.

 

[Lamb]

Only God can see the fruit? Jesus told us that we would know people by their fruit, so presumably we can see it too.

I meant to say true fruit. We can see fruit, but we don't know if it's good things done by believers or non-believers, right? I mean, I see nonbelievers doing nice things for people all the time, but if it's not done because of faith in God, it isn't fruit.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

We are told that a tree is known by the fruit it produces.

Only God can truly see the fruit, so that can be deceptive to human eyes, right?

Interesting, Lamb... How do you figure? Is sin, then, also deceptive?
Recall that Paul stated:

"Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God." (Gal. 5;19-21, NASB, emphasis mine)

If the deeds of the "flesh" (sin) can be seen by others, why not the fruit?

 

[Edward429451]

Only God can see the fruit? Jesus told us that we would know people by their fruit, so presumably we can see it too.

Good answer, Brother!

 

[Edward429451]

I meant to say true fruit. We can see fruit, but we don't know if it's good things done by believers or non-believers, right? I mean, I see nonbelievers doing nice things for people all the time, but if it's not done because of faith in God, it isn't fruit.

I believe that when Believers see the fruit in another, it simply comes through automatically or in their words. We don''t need to get their resume of good deeds, lol. The fruit speaks for itself. and of God's glory. and you recognize it almost instantly.

Have you ever heard someone say something so profound about God that you felt it? They said it in just the right way and boom, it clicked something inside of you...and you may have been like, I can see the Holy Spirit all over that guy...but you didn't see anything with your eyes, you only felt it in your heart. So you seen it through the eyes of your heart.


Because how we see life is in our heart, Hebrews 4:12 says so.

 

[Lamb]

Interesting, Lamb... How do you figure? Is sin, then, also deceptive?
Recall that Paul stated:

"Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God." (Gal. 5;19-21, NASB, emphasis mine)

If the deeds of the "flesh" (sin) can be seen by others, why not the fruit?

I would never want anyone to base whether or not I'm a Christian by the things I do or don't do. If they would, I'm sure I would be a complete failure. I'm so glad God doesn't put that on me since Christ died for my sins and my salvation is purely dependent on him. My confession of faith should be good enough for others, not my actions. My actions will be sinful.

Sure, some fruit can be seen, but are you sure it's fruit done by the faithful? I see nonbelievers being kind all the time to others, but that won't be enough to save them. They don't have the fruit from faith.

 

[Edward429451]

I would never want anyone to base whether or not I'm a Christian by the things I do or don't do. If they would, I'm sure I would be a complete failure. I'm so glad God doesn't put that on me since Christ died for my sins and my salvation is purely dependent on him. My confession of faith should be good enough for others, not my actions. My actions will be sinful.

That's (one of) the weird things about Christianity. It isn't works based...and that is truth. But, the ones who are truely the Lord's will have good works as one of the things that they do. Because we begin seeking the Lord and trying to emulate Him, and He does good works and helps people, so we have good works and help people.

(Then nay-sayers step up and say that makes it works based, lol.) But it's not. It's just like joining the military. What did you do in the military, kill people? No, I was a Helicopter Mechanic....Oh! So there's stuff to do and learn in the military?! Well, gee whiz. that means it isnt over after boot camp. Then you have a job to do...Eh?

So after we get saved and born again & Baptized what's the first thing that happens. Jesus showed us in scripture. Then was Jesus led into the desert to fast and be tempted for 40 days.
(Uh-Oh better not do that, that would be works...LOL)
Advanced training or reporting for duty to a job somewhere doesnt happen until after boot camp & Baptism is over! Salvation, free. Now go to work and be all that you can be! Or at least show up for work, I did sign up. I don't want to be a low level private my entire service. I might not be General material, but Corporal or SGT., looks good to me. That takes effort, works. So you do it and hang in there! And do it tomorrow too!

You know what happens when you follow orders and do it?
Fruit appears. What's it say? ...and all these things shall be added unto thee...wow.

 

[Lamb]

That's (one of) the weird things about Christianity. It isn't works based...and that is truth. But, the ones who are truely the Lord's will have good works as one of the things that they do. Because we begin seeking the Lord and trying to emulate Him, and He does good works and helps people, so we have good works and help people.

(Then nay-sayers step up and say that makes it works based, lol.) But it's not. It's just like joining the military. What did you do in the military, kill people? No, I was a Helicopter Mechanic....Oh! So there's stuff to do and learn in the military?! Well, gee whiz. that means it isnt over after boot camp. Then you have a job to do...Eh?

So after we get saved and born again & Baptized what's the first thing that happens. Jesus showed us in scripture. Then was Jesus led into the desert to fast and be tempted for 40 days.
(Uh-Oh better not do that, that would be works...LOL)
Advanced training or reporting for duty to a job somewhere doesnt happen until after boot camp & Baptism is over! Salvation, free. Now go to work and be all that you can be! Or at least show up for work, I did sign up. I don't want to be a low level private my entire service. I might not be General material, but Corporal or SGT., looks good to me. That takes effort, works. So you do it and hang in there! And do it tomorrow too!

You know what happens when you follow orders and do it?
Fruit appears. What's it say? ...and all these things shall be added unto thee...wow.

Yes, Christians will do good works. But what if you don't always see my good works? Or question that what I'm doing is good because you don't see both sides of a situation? You'd think I was not a Christian? That's why we can't be the ones judging other based on what they do or don't do.

There are some really amazing non-Christians who help others, volunteer and work at food pantries and shelters. They're such great people you'd think they were the Lords, right?

I've been on this Christian forum for 10 years. I know there are many faithful people here, but the biggest rule violation is name calling. So should I suspect they aren't truly believers because they sin like that and aren't loving toward their neighbor? Nonsense. We're both saints and sinners at the same time.