Did Christ die for them that are perishing ?

Marston

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 2, 2025
Messages
79
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Non-Denominational
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Yes, the whole creation, but the rebels in that same creation will have to experience God's perfect justice outside where there is "weeping and gnashing of teeth."

I never said otherwise.

The LOF is used by Jesus to save the lost in order to successfully reconcile them back to God.

Faithful Christians are SAVED from that process. Jesus's sacrifice saves ALL from forever death but NOT from the LOF. For those that place their faith in Jesus, along with repentance and obeying his commandments, the LOF is unnecessary for them. When they die they are, in the blink of an eye, changed into perfection the nice and easy way. The wicked must go through the LOF in order for them to be reconciled back to God the Father.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 28, 2022
Messages
1,425
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Is it Jesus's mission to reconcile all things back to God the Father?
Yeah the children of God, the elect and in order to do that He was made like unto His brethren, the seed of Abraham to make reconciliation for them Heb 2:14-17

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels[The Devil and his angels]; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Now where does the devil and his angels fit into this program ? Are they the seed of Abraham ? Did they take on flesh and blood ? Christ didnt identify with angels to make reconciliation for their sins. So get to explaining please.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 28, 2022
Messages
1,425
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I never said otherwise.

The LOF is used by Jesus to save the lost in order to successfully reconcile them back to God.

Faithful Christians are SAVED from that process. Jesus's sacrifice saves ALL from forever death but NOT from the LOF. For those that place their faith in Jesus, along with repentance and obeying his commandments, the LOF is unnecessary for them. When they die they are, in the blink of an eye, changed into perfection the nice and easy way. The wicked must go through the LOF in order for them to be reconciled back to God the Father.
The Lost doesnt include the devil and his angels, the lost are Gods people the sheep Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Since when were the devil and his angels Gods people ?
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 28, 2022
Messages
1,425
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
@Marston

The wicked must go through the LOF in order for them to be reconciled back to God the Father.

False teaching, Gods people are reconciled to God by the Death of His Son Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 28, 2022
Messages
1,425
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
The lies of universalism says the devil and his angels have been reconciled to God by Christs death, which reconciled all things to God Col 1

20-22

20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

But then some of the lies of universalism say, the devil and his angels will become holy and unblameable not by Christs death, but by being cast into the LOF, to be reconciled to God. What a blatant contradiction, thats when you know its a made up false teaching.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 28, 2022
Messages
1,425
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
The Blessing of Abraham !

Gal 3:13-14

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

This is something the religionists in false religion will not understand, however this passage is very informative as to what the Death of Christ shall effect, for all whom He died, that is, all for whom He hath redeemed from the curse of the Law, being made a curse for them.

The word redeemed in Vs 13 means:

by payment of a price to recover from the power of another, to ransom, buy off
metaph. of Christ freeing the elect from the dominion of the Mosaic Law at the price of his vicarious death

to buy up, to buy up for one's self, for one's use

Lets highlight the definition " To recover from the power of another"

This is important because one of the consequences of the curse of the law is to be under the power of the devil, and an consequence of that is Unbelief 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Yes being blinded to the Gospel that we believe not, is because one is under the power of the devil !

Listen, if one refuses to believe the Glorious Gospel of Christ, its because they are under the power of the devil, simple as that !

Now lets return to our text Gal 3:13-14, the purpose of the Death of Christ, and the Results God intended thereby, was that by His Death redeeming everyone He died for from the curse of the Law, it was in order that [hina] denoting purpose, the Blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles through Faith !

That word come in come upon is the greek word givnomai and it means:

to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive beingto become, i.e. to come to pass, happen of events

It was for the purpose of causing something to happen, to bring about something that did not exist , to be performed, wrought

to become, be made

What this is talking about is New Birth, to become a New Creation. This is the result of having been Redeemed from the curse of the Law, solely by the Death of Christ ! 21
 

Marston

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 2, 2025
Messages
79
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Non-Denominational
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes

Marston

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 2, 2025
Messages
79
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Non-Denominational
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes

Marston

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 2, 2025
Messages
79
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Non-Denominational
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
But then some of the lies of universalism say, the devil and his angels will become holy and unblameable not by Christs death, but by being cast into the LOF, to be reconciled to God. What a blatant contradiction, thats when you know its a made up false teaching.

The scriptures clearly state that all things will be reconciled back to God. You reject this tenet of Jesus's purpose. So be it.
 

Marston

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 2, 2025
Messages
79
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Non-Denominational
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Yes being blinded to the Gospel that we believe not, is because one is under the power of the devil !

Listen, if one refuses to believe the Glorious Gospel of Christ, its because they are under the power of the devil, simple as that !

Such as refusing the scripture that plainly states that Jesus is reconciling ALL THINGS back to God?
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 28, 2022
Messages
1,425
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
The Blessing of Abraham ! 2

So Christ's death was intended to Redeem those He died for from the curse of the Law, which was the Seed of Abraham, and by doing that, it was for the Purpose of the Gentiles [of the Spiritual Of Abraham] That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit

Notice here that Paul includes himself in this blessing, because he is speaking of a spiritual seed of Abraham who the blessing comes upon, the Spirit.

Now with this in Mind, we want to look at Two Blessings which are the Blessing of Abraham, that comes upon the Spiritual Seed of Abraham, as a result of being redeemed from the curse of the Law by Christ's Death alone !

The First blessing is Justification by Faith. That's Right, God Justifying those Christ died for is a promise blessing of Abraham.

It was Preached to Abraham in the Gospel Gal 3:8

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Notice here " Justification through Faith" is something promised He would do. In other words Justification and Faith are of the same blessing. One is not Justified by God without it being Justified by Faith.

Again Rom 3:30

30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

God shall Justify the jew through Faith and the Gentile by Faith. The Faith is not the condition they must meet for God to Justify them, but it is part of the Promise of God to Justify them by and through it !

Back to Gal 3:9

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

This means that they partake of the Blessing of Abraham Gal 3:8

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Listen carefully, the blessing of Redemption from the curse Gal 3:13 is to be Justified by Faith as a Part of the Blessing of Abraham ! Not a opportunity made available to be Justified by Faith, but a sure blessing to be Justified by Faith ! That's the First blessing of Abraham ! 21
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 28, 2022
Messages
1,425
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
So you disagree with Paul that Jesus is reconciling ALL THINGS back to God.
No you do. Paul is speaking about the elect Col 3:12

12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

Has nothing to do with the non elect and the devil and his angels
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 28, 2022
Messages
1,425
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Well, "all things" means them too. Again, I'm just going by what the Bible says.
False, you have no scripture for that. Its all about the elect. Christ didn't take on the nature of angels to make reconciliation for their sins. You are bearing false witness friend.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 28, 2022
Messages
1,425
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
The scriptures clearly state that all things will be reconciled back to God. You reject this tenet of Jesus's purpose. So be it.
False scripture doesnt clearly teach that the devil and his angels are reconciled to God, only His elect. You have made up a false jesus, the Jesus of scripture is limited to save His people from their sins and the devil and his angels are not His People Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 28, 2022
Messages
1,425
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Such as refusing the scripture that plainly states that Jesus is reconciling ALL THINGS back to God?
A person is blinded by the devil who thinks all things includes the devil and his angels and reprobate non elect.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 28, 2022
Messages
1,425
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
The Blessing of Abraham ! 3

The Second Blessing of the Blessing of Abraham, what God meant when He said to Abraham Gen 12:3

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

The second one is the Holy Spirit and or Spiritual Life. Lets go back to Gal 3:13-14

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

That [hina purpose] we [Abraham's Spiritual Seed] might receive the PROMISE of the Spirit through Faith [Christ's Faithfulness]

It was because Christ, Abraham's Seed Gal 3:16 obeyed the Voice of His Father as a Surety Head for the Spiritual Seed of Abraham, that Seed receives the Blessing of the Spirit for Life.

Remember this incident in Gen 22:12-18

12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.

14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the Lord it shall be seen.

15 And the angel of the Lord called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,

16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the Lord, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:

17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;

18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

Well Abraham was merely a Type of Christ in this, and its fulfillment is In Christ and His Obedience unto Death, because He obeyed the Voice of God, in Him all the Seed shall be blessed with the Blessing of Abraham which is the Spirit.

That's why as soon as Jesus Christ ascended to the Right Hand of God having conqured Death, He received from the Father THE PROMISE OF THE SPIRIT to pour out on His Seed, the Seed of Abraham Acts 2:32-33

32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Yes, that was upon a Jewish Remnant of the Spiritual Seed of Abraham, but we know He did it also upon a Gentile Remnant of the Seed of Abraham Titus 3:5-6

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Or through Faith, His Faithfulness !

Titus to whom Paul wrote the Letter to was an Gentile Pastor of a Church.

So all for whom Christ died, and redeemed from the curse of the Law, it was in order that through Christ they shall be Justified by Faith and that they shall be given the Spirit, New Life, New Birth.

This must happen to everyone Christ died for, if it doesn't, the scriptures are false and unreliable in its Testimony in this Matter. Those who teach that Christ died for individuals who subsequently die in unbelief and their sins as Per Jn 8:24, they are calling God a Liar, Christ's Redeeming Death a Lie, The Spirit a Lie, the Scriptures a Lie !
 

BruceLeiter

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 11, 2024
Messages
580
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
You continue to cite mistranslated verses that claim that people are forever punished but you will not address scriptures from those very same Bible translations that state the opposite.
Show me how I have misused those verses, @Marston, and then we can have a real discussion instead of general comments. Ephesians and the whole letter are addressed to whom (verse 1)? Enough said about whom the first chapter is. I notice that you didn't embolden verse 1.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 28, 2022
Messages
1,425
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
He was made unto us Sanctification ! 2

What else does it mean by Christ was made unto us Sanctification as Per 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

Now listen, this means that all for whom Christ died, all for whom He was made of God unto them Righteousness by Legal Imputation, He is made unto them in addition Sanctification, by a communication of Spiritual Life/Grace to their inward parts, and by this they are subjectively made alive unto God. Lets Look at this word sanctification once more. It is the greek word hagiasmos and means:

I.
consecration, purification

II.
the effect of consecration
A.
sanctification of heart and life

C.to purify internally by renewing of the soul

Christ has been made unto us Sanctification, and because of it, those He died for must be made internally renewed.

Its what we have here taking place Heb 8:10

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: or

Jer 31:33

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

That word inward means:

ii.
as seat of thought and emotion

iii.
as faculty of thought and emotion

Ezk 36:26

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

This inner Sanctification is by the Spirit of God communicating Life, its called the Sanctification of the Spirit 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Same word as in 1 Cor 1:30, so the Spirit must give Sanctification of Heart and Life for Christ's sake to all for whom He died, or He fails His Role in the Economy of Salvation.

Peter writes about it also here 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

The Sanctification of the Spirit, as a result of Christ's Covenant Death for all whom He died, it imparts Life and Grace into spiritually dead sinners, it enlivens them, quickens them to the things of God which are evangelical obedience, they believe through this means Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace: or through the Sanctification of the Spirit unto belief of the Truth !

These things must be True if God made Christ unto us Sanctification ! 21
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 28, 2022
Messages
1,425
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
The Blessing of Abraham ! 4

Scripture shall always collaborate scripture for those who have eyes to see ! We have previously showed that Two distinct blessings result from being redeemed from the curse of the Law as a result of Christ being made a curse for them Gal 3:13-14

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

These Two Blessings consisit of the Blessing of Abraham to come upon all for whom Christ died and redeem from the curse of the Law, one being Justification by Faith Gal 3:8-9

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

And the other, the Holy Spirit of Promise and or Spiritual Life. The Spirit is the Author of Life Jn 6:63

63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Now another scripture that teaches the same is Gal 2:19

19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that=hina I might live unto God.

Paul is saying, that he by means of being dead to the law by the body of Christ, dead to its curse and power, by the Christ redeeming him from the Law, was that he may live [spiritually] unto God. Life is the result of being redeemed from the curse of the Law by Christ being made a curse for him. Where there is no curse, Life must be granted !

Pauls death or being dead to the Law is in order that, for the purpose of causing them to Live unto God.

The same truth is here Rom 7:4

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

This is the Blessing of Abraham ! 21
 
Top Bottom