Did Christ die for them that are perishing ?

[Marston]

Did God get His way when He told Adam not to eat of a certain tree that brought forth death?

All according to his plan my brother. God is working within us for our edification and development. God allows us to be lost from him to a certain extent and for a limited period of time, not "forever".

Lamentations 3:31 For the Lord will not cast off forever

 

[Charlie24]

Jesus's mission is to unite ALL THINGS back to the Father. Jesus said the "Gates of Hell" (most English translations) will NOT prevail! This means that nothing and nobody will prevent Jesus from successfully fulfilling his mission!

Matthew 16:18 CLNT
18 Now I, also, am saying to you that you are Peter, and on this rock will I be building My ecclesia, and the gates of the unseen shall not be prevailing against it.

If you're understanding that Scripture correctly, then show us where ALL men will escape the rejecting of Christ.

The Scripture plainly places them in the Lake of Fire, all you have to do to make believers of us is to show us where they get out.

 

[Marston]

If you're understanding that Scripture correctly, then show us where ALL men will escape the rejecting of Christ.

The Scripture plainly places them in the Lake of Fire, all you have to do to make believers of us is to show us where they get out.

The proverbial " Lake of Fire" (LOF) is a metaphor to describe a process of refining and purification. It is not for the purpose of endless torture. My suspicion is that corrupt members of the early church changed scriptures that described "age-during" correction into "everlasting torment". As you may be aware, at one time the Catholic Church taught that financial gifts to the church would "save" one from "eternal punishment".

I'll share more scriptures that demonstrate that ALL will be with God.

 

[Charlie24]

The proverbial " Lake of Fire" (LOF) is a metaphor to describe a process of refining and purification. It is not for the purpose of endless torture. My suspicion is that corrupt members of the early church changed scriptures that described "age-during" correction into "everlasting torment". As you may be aware, at one time the Catholic Church taught that financial gifts to the church would "save" one from "eternal punishment".

I'll share more scriptures that demonstrate that ALL will be with God.

Oh, so there is no literal Hell, how convenient for the UR.

Prove there is no literal Hell, yes I know, you can't do that either.

In fact, the UR can prove nothing they say from Scripture.

 

[Marston]

Isaiah 52:10
The Lord has bared his holy arm before the eyes of all the nations and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.

Titus 2:11
11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

Luke 19:10 ESV
"For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”

1 John 4:14 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

1 Timothy 4:10
For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.

Lamentations 3:31 For the Lord will not cast off forever

Romans 5:18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.

Romans 11:32
For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.

John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL people to myself.”

Revelation 21:5 And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”

2 Corinthians 5:19
that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

John 6:51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”

2 Corinthians 5:14-15
For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; 15 and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

Colossians 1:20
and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

John 3:17
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Luke 3:6
and all flesh shall see the salvation of God

Philippians 2:10-11
so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Romans 10:9
because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

2 Samuel 14:14
We must all die; we are like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again. But God will not take away life, and he devises means so that the banished one will not remain an outcast.

Ephesians 1:10
As a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in Him, things in heaven and things on earth.

John 1:29
The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"

1 Corinthians 15:22-28
22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. 24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For “God has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. 28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.

 

[Charlie24]

Oh, so there is no literal Hell, how convenient for the UR.

Prove there is no literal Hell, yes I know, you can't do that either.

In fact, the UR can prove nothing they say from Scripture.

But I will not take from the them the good intentions they have.

I wish all if was true, myself, but it can't be proven from Scripture, that's my point.

 

[Charlie24]

Isaiah 52:10
The Lord has bared his holy arm before the eyes of all the nations and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.

Titus 2:11
11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

Luke 19:10 ESV
"For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”

1 John 4:14 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

1 Timothy 4:10
For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.

Lamentations 3:31 For the Lord will not cast off forever

Romans 5:18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.

Romans 11:32
For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.

John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL people to myself.”

Revelation 21:5 And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”

2 Corinthians 5:19
that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

John 6:51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”

2 Corinthians 5:14-15
For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; 15 and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

Colossians 1:20
and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

John 3:17
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Luke 3:6
and all flesh shall see the salvation of God

Philippians 2:10-11
so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Romans 10:9
because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

2 Samuel 14:14
We must all die; we are like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again. But God will not take away life, and he devises means so that the banished one will not remain an outcast.

Ephesians 1:10
As a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in Him, things in heaven and things on earth.

John 1:29
The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"

1 Corinthians 15:22-28
22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. 24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For “God has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. 28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.

You can't just post a long line of Scripture, you have to explain and point it out to make your point.

 

[Charlie24]

You can't just post a long line of Scripture, you have to explain and point it out to make your point.

I wouldn't stand in opposition of the UR if it didn't create a false sense of salvation in the end for those who have no knowledge of the Scripture. That, unfortunately is what it does.

The intensions are good, but the harm to others must be acknowledged.

 

[Charlie24]

I wouldn't stand in opposition of the UR if it didn't create a false sense of salvation in the end for those who have no knowledge of the Scripture. That, unfortunately is what it does.

The intensions are good, but the harm to others must be acknowledged.

I was in a hardware store maybe a year ago witnessing to a man. He said, it doesn't matter how I live, I may suffer for my wrongs but in the end I will be saved. I just shook my head and thought, the UR has struck again.

I went on to tell him it does matter how we live and what we believe about Christ. I briefly took him down the Roman Road of salvation, but I'm not sure it connected.

There is harm being done to the Word of God through the UR, although it's meant for good.

 

[Marston]

You can't just post a long line of Scripture, you have to explain and point it out to make your point.

The scriptures speak for themselves, my brother. I encourage you to read them and then determine for yourself if they indicate that all will be with God.

 

[Marston]

There is harm being done to the Word of God through the UR, although it's meant for good.

Did Jesus come to unite ALL THINGS back to God the Father?

 

[Marston]

He said, it doesn't matter how I live, I may suffer for my wrongs but in the end I will be saved.

Faithful Christians are ASSURED of going straight to Heaven. The wicked will go to the LOF and we know that we do NOT want to be sent there!

The doctrine of Universal Reconciliation does NOT teach that people can be evil and still go straight to Heaven. Universal reconciliation teaches that ALL THINGS will, eventually, be reconciled back to God the Father, just as the Bible teaches!

 

[Charlie24]

The scriptures speak for themselves, my brother. I encourage you to read them and then determine for yourself if they indicate that all will be with God.

I have to disagree, respectfully, that all will be saved in the end!

Did Jesus come to unite ALL THINGS back to God the Father?

He came to undo what Adam had done in condemning man through sin in disobedience.

Remember, all of creation fell, not just man through Adam's choice to disobey God.

Paul said that all of creation groans for the reconciliation of God to make things as they were intended to be.

That is what God the Father will do through Christ, bring all of creation back to its original purpose before sin came into the world.

 

[Marston]

I have to disagree, respectfully, that all will be saved in the end!

As I shared earlier, it is God's WILL that ALL THINGS be reconciled back to him, as Paul said in his letter to the Ephesians.

God also told us in Isaiah that he accomplishes ALL that he desires.

Jesus told us that the Gates of Hell will NOT prevent him from succeeding.

There is a boatload of other verses, many of which I've shared already, that demonstrate that ALL will be in God's name.

The infernalist doctrine of "eternal punishment" (likely introduced by the corrupt church centuries ago) is FALSE. Jesus saves! He doesn't torture people, let alone forever.

 

[Charlie24]

As I shared earlier, it is God's WILL that ALL THINGS be reconciled back to him, as Paul said in his letter to the Ephesians.

God also told us in Isaiah that he accomplishes ALL that he desires.

Jesus told us that the Gates of Hell will NOT prevent him from succeeding.

There is a boatload of other verses, many of which I've shared already, that demonstrate that ALL will be in God's name.

The infernalist doctrine of "eternal punishment" (likely introduced by the corrupt church centuries ago) is FALSE. Jesus saves! He doesn't torture people, let alone forever.

As long as you see eternal punishment as temporary we will disagree. No where in Scripture is this said.

You are left with the actual proof of what you've said, not an interpretation of what you believe it says.

 

[Marston]

As long as you see eternal punishment as temporary

It doesn't exist my brother. How can all things be reconciled back to God the Father if some beings are being punished forever?

The original Greek scriptures never spoke of forever punishment. There is indeed punishment but it is temporary and for the purpose of correction and restoration.

Satan's deception is very real, including his lie that God tortures forever some of his creation. Mainstream Christianity believes and teaches that lie. The scriptures teach otherwise.

 

[Charlie24]

It doesn't exist my brother. How can all things be reconciled back to God the Father if some beings are being punished forever?

The original Greek scriptures never spoke of forever punishment. There is indeed punishment but it is temporary and for the purpose of correction and restoration.

Satan's deception is very real, including his lie that God tortures forever some of his creation. Mainstream Christianity believes and teaches that lie. The scriptures teach otherwise.

There's a condition for salvation, you must believe, if not, there is no coming back to God.

You are eternally separated from Him.

But I'm not coming here as a brand new member and argue this over and over again.

I don't want to be recognized as that person.

 

[Marston]

There's a condition for salvation, you must believe, if not, there is no coming back to God.

You are eternally separated from Him.

But I'm not coming here as a brand new member and argue this over and over again.

I don't want to be recognized as that person.

All good my brother. I'm new too!

 

[brightfame52]

When He hath by Himself purged our sins sat down !3

Again, who are the " Our Sins" of Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

We showed that it was church previously and we showed and go back to that it's the Seed of Abraham, that follows within the overall context of Hebrews, written specifically to the Seed of Abraham Heb 2:16-17

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

He took on the Seed of Abraham to make Reconciliation or Propitiation for that particular People !

Took on Him actually means Heb 2:16

16 Clearly, it is not angels that Jesus helps. He helps the people who are from Abraham. ERV

16 For surely it is not angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham.ESV

People say that's all ethnic jews ? That's wrong, its all believers in Christ, His Body the Church, jew or Gentile Gal 3:29

29 And if you belong to Christ [are in Him Who is Abraham’s Seed], then you are Abraham’s offspring and [spiritual] heirs according to promise. AMP

That's the Our Sins of Heb 1:3, why wouldn't be ? Who is more important to a Man than His Wife of whom He is One Flesh ? Eph 5:25-26

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

Now If Christ is the Seed of Abraham Gal 3:16, then how could His Wife the Church , whom He is One flesh with, not be the Seed of Abraham ? Lets read Eph 5:30-32

30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

So quite reasonably the Flesh and Blood of His Brethren here Heb 2:14

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Abraham's Wife was actually His Sister also. Gen 20:12

12 And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.

So Likewise, Christ the Seed of Abraham, His Wife[His Bride] is also His Brethren Heb 2:16-17

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Its His Bride the ChurchThe Seed of Abraham that is the Our Sins of Heb 1:3, and Vs 17 of Heb 2:17 is but a commentary of Heb 1:3 as well as 1 Cor 15:3.

Finally this purging of sin Heb 1:3 is a completed and accomplished work, it has noting to do with the acts or actions of those who are the Seed, it does not depend on their believing it, accepting it, their behavior or their sinful state, its a True fact even when they are in unbelief and rebellion and rejection of God. Regardless, God views them in the eyes of His Law as Not Guilty of one sin against His Law. As a result of Christ's purging our sins, it fulfills completely and finally what was only temporal and incomplete as a result of the offerings on the day of Atonement for the sins of the People Lev 16:30

30 For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before the Lord.

Yes, Christ's purging of Our sins, if He died for us indeed, Gives God to view us as here indicated Col 1:22

22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 21

 

[brightfame52]

@Charlie24

There's a condition for salvation, you must believe, if not, there is no coming back to God.

When we make any act of man a condition for salvation, we no longer are in the sphere of salvation by grace, but of works. Believing is an act of man