No one is saved by faith alone.

[MoreCoffee]

What use is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
Jas 2:14 LSB

 

[Manonfire63]

Were you saved?

There is a difference between faith and belief. Even Satan believed in God. Satan very well knows God is there.

Faith is a personal relationship with God Almighty, God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob. A personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Born of a virgin, died and resurrected.

 

[Lamb]

What use is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
Jas 2:14 LSB

If someone has faith, then then the Holy Spirit WILL do good works through that person but we're still saved by grace through faith.

 

[Manonfire63]

Part of the Holy Spirit doing good works through a person would be a process of Sanctification.

Was someone going through sanctification?

 

[Frankj]

Consider that the Holy Spirit can work through someone to produce good works without his even knowing about it, or others even noticing that a good work has been done.

The Bible tells us that all things work together to produce good for those who love God and seek his purposes in their lives. It doesn't say that we have to know that is what is happening but suggests that we should just have faith that this is how things will work out.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Were you saved?

There is a difference between faith and belief. Even Satan believed in God. Satan very well knows God is there.

Faith is a personal relationship with God Almighty, God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob. A personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Born of a virgin, died and resurrected.

If someone has faith, then then the Holy Spirit WILL do good works through that person but we're still saved by grace through faith.

Part of the Holy Spirit doing good works through a person would be a process of Sanctification.

Was someone going through sanctification?

How many ways can one attempt to squirm out of answering a simple question!

 

[Lanman87]

What use is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
Jas 2:14 LSB

The key verse in the entire James 2:14-26 discourse is James 2: 18

18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works

James is differentiating between a true saving faith and simple belief in God. Simply believing in God does not save.

19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!

A saving faith is not just belief, it is trusting in God so much that you are willing surrender yourself to the purposes of God. Years ago I took a class called Evangelism Explosion. That class used the analogy of a chair. Simple/intellectual belief is to see a chair and believe it will support your weight. Faith is believing the chair will hold your weight so much that you will sit in the chair. You can say the chair will hold me up all day long, but if you refuse to sit in the chair, then you don't really believe it is true.

James is basically telling these folks their "faith" will not save them because they don't really have faith. They refuse to "sit in the chair". If they actually had faith they would have evidence (like sitting in the chair) that gives evidence of their faith. Abraham had faith and gave evidence by offering up his son. Rahab had faith and gave evidence when she protected the messengers. They were, as James said "showing their faith by their works". The weren't saved because they did the works. Abraham had already been counted as "righteous" long before he offered Issac up.

That doesn't mean works don't "complete" our faith or "perfect" our faith. I don't think anybody denies that our works helps make our faith stronger and fuller. Anytime we see God move, be it in our own personal life, or in the life of others, our faith is made stronger and more "perfect".

It is also important to know that one of the definitions of the word used for Justified "δικαιόω (dikaioō)" in James 2:24 and 25 is vindicate or give evidence for.

This is the same word used in Matthew 11:19 Yet wisdom is justified by her deeds

I'm not a big fan of the NLT translation but I think it does a good job and showing the meaning behind James 2

18 Now someone may argue, “Some people have faith; others have good deeds.” But I say, “How can you show me your faith if you don’t have good deeds? I will show you my faith by my good deeds.”

19 You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God.[f] Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. 20 How foolish! Can’t you see that faith without good deeds is useless?

21 Don’t you remember that our ancestor Abraham was shown to be right with God by his actions when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see, his faith and his actions worked together. His actions made his faith complete. 23 And so it happened just as the Scriptures say: “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.”[g] He was even called the friend of God.[h] 24 So you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do, not by faith alone.

25 Rahab the prostitute is another example. She was shown to be right with God by her actions when she hid those messengers and sent them safely away by a different road. 26 Just as the body is dead without breath,[i] so also faith is dead without good works.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The key verse in the entire James 2:14-26 discourse is James 2: 18

18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works

James is differentiating between a true saving faith and simple belief in God. Simply believing in God does not save.

19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!

A saving faith is not just belief, it is trusting in God so much that you are willing surrender yourself to the purposes of God. Years ago I took a class called Evangelism Explosion. That class used the analogy of a chair. Simple/intellectual belief is to see a chair and believe it will support your weight. Faith is believing the chair will hold your weight so much that you will sit in the chair. You can say the chair will hold me up all day long, but if you refuse to sit in the chair, then you don't really believe it is true.

James is basically telling these folks their "faith" will not save them because they don't really have faith. They refuse to "sit in the chair". If they actually had faith they would have evidence (like sitting in the chair) that gives evidence of their faith. Abraham had faith and gave evidence by offering up his son. Rahab had faith and gave evidence when she protected the messengers. They were, as James said "showing their faith by their works". The weren't saved because they did the works. Abraham had already been counted as "righteous" long before he offered Issac up.

That doesn't mean works don't "complete" our faith or "perfect" our faith. I don't think anybody denies that our works helps make our faith stronger and fuller. Anytime we see God move, be it in our own personal life, or in the life of others, our faith is made stronger and more "perfect".

It is also important to know that one of the definitions of the word used for Justified "δικαιόω (dikaioō)" in James 2:24 and 25 is vindicate or give evidence for.

This is the same word used in Matthew 11:19 Yet wisdom is justified by her deeds

I'm not a big fan of the NLT translation but I think it does a good job and showing the meaning behind James 2

18 Now someone may argue, “Some people have faith; others have good deeds.” But I say, “How can you show me your faith if you don’t have good deeds? I will show you my faith by my good deeds.”

19 You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God.[f] Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. 20 How foolish! Can’t you see that faith without good deeds is useless?

21 Don’t you remember that our ancestor Abraham was shown to be right with God by his actions when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see, his faith and his actions worked together. His actions made his faith complete. 23 And so it happened just as the Scriptures say: “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.”[g] He was even called the friend of God.[h] 24 So you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do, not by faith alone.

25 Rahab the prostitute is another example. She was shown to be right with God by her actions when she hid those messengers and sent them safely away by a different road. 26 Just as the body is dead without breath,[i] so also faith is dead without good works.

No, verse 18 is not the pivotal verse. Verse 14 is a great starter for the discussion because it expresses the dilemma so succinctly.

 

[Lanman87]

No, verse 18 is not the pivotal verse. Verse 14 is a great starter for the discussion because it expresses the dilemma so succinctly.

I disagree, the rest of the paragraph is about evidence of faith.

The dilemma was people claiming to have faith but the evidence in their actions did not back up their claim. In my evangelical world this would be people who say "the sinners prayer" and then go right back to living the way they have always lived. Just making a profession of faith doesn't mean someone actually has faith.

I agree that there are faiths that don't save. Intellectual belief alone doesn't save. Faith in what I do doesn't save. Faith in my church tradition doesn't save.

A saving faith must include not only intellectual belief and assent but also trust. And trust, by its very nature, causes action (or else it isn't really trust). Actions (works) leave evidence.

If we truly trust in Christ then it will show, in big or small ways, in how we live our lives. James was speaking to those who made a profession of faith in Christ but it didn't show in how they lived their lives. He is challenging the truthfulness of their claim of faith based on how he sees them live their lives.

The question we all need to ask ourselves based on this passage is "are living out what we claim to believe"? Does our actions match our words? Am I living out the royal law to "love my neighbor as myself"?

 

[BruceLeiter]

What use is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
Jas 2:14 LSB

What use is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
Jas 2:14 LSB

@MoreCoffee, it appears that you base your idea on only one verse. What if there are other verses that seem to contradict your verse? What do you do then?

For example, there are Ephesians 2:8-9, Galatians 3:24-26, and Romans 3:20-22:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference....

So, now, how can we settle the difference between James and Paul? Upon further study, we cannot have contradictions in Scripture because it is all God's Word.

However, we can discern that James and Paul define the word "faith" differently.

James defines "faith" as having head knowledge of God but no genuine commitment to following God's will. He's right that that kind of "faith" will not save a person.

On the other hand, Paul includes under the meaning of "faith" the works that result from it. We aren't saved by any good deeds, as he says in Ephesians 2:8-9, but he follows that statement with verse 10, which says that works are the inevitable result of God's saving us only by faith: "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

Therefore, James and Paul actually agree. Paul is battling the legalists, while James disagrees with people's intellectual assent alone being enough to be saved.

 

[Manonfire63]

How many ways can one attempt to squirm out of answering a simple question!

Are you sitting in the judgement seat?

You are the perfect Christian, separate from sin?

 

[Manonfire63]

Let us get this out of the way, and make it public.

You deleted something I posted in "World Religions and Speculative Theology." You did so without talking to me, or letting me know.

Now you are worried about demons and their influence over you.

Personally......serving God and talking to God, I have been demonically oppressed a lot. Demons are attracted to authority. You thought you were an authority and equal or greater than?

 

[Manonfire63]

Given it was easy, anyone could do it?

 

[MoreCoffee]

@MoreCoffee, it appears that you base your idea on only one verse

What use is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead by itself. But someone will say, “You have faith; and I have works. Show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected. And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS COUNTED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” and he was called the friend of God. You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.
James 2:14-26 LSB

 

[MoreCoffee]

Are you sitting in the judgement seat?

You are the perfect Christian, separate from sin?

is squirming a sin?

 

[Manonfire63]

is squirming a sin?

Are you aware of how God judges sins?

 

[Truth7t7]

What use is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
Jas 2:14 LSB

The spoken words of faith saved the thief on the cross

Luke 23:42-43KJV
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

 

[Oseas3]

Luke 18:8
Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

Greetings in Christ JESUS The seventh and last Day or seventh and last millennium, it just arrived. The message of the Lord for this current time, the turn from the sixth Day(Matthew 25:6-13, take a look)to the seventh and last GOD's Day, it is about the Righteous Judgment Seat of Christ, and in LITERAL fulfillment of John 16:5-15 combined with 1Corinthians 6:2-3 and Daniel 2:43-47 & 7:21-27, take a look. Yes, LITERAL fulfillment of the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD, John 1:1, the Word is from everlasting to everlasting, GOD Himself, GOD the Father, Father of our Lord JESUS Christ, Self-executing, Self-executable. Great Mistery-Matthew 11:27, take a look. By the way, here goes a comment or message posted in the site called www.rev310.net/post/but-as-the-days-of-noah-were, on the thread "But as the Days of Noah were", posted by a brother called Randy Nettles. As we all know, and brother Randy wrote above, GOD warned Noah saying that "for yet seven days He will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights''. God warned Noah on the tenth day of the month (detail: day 10) that after 7 days (in the 17th day) He would begin the destruction of the world He created and existed at that time through a flood. And now we were/are warned by the Son of GOD - our Lord JESUS Christ, He is Omnipresent - , that just as it was in the days of Noah, it will also be now, with one difference, instead of water, it is fire to burn the current world of the Devil as a whole, where we are still living. But wait, the fire here it is not about literal heat, oxygen and fuel, oh no, now the Word of GOD is the oxygen and heat or fire, the fuel is the wicked and demonic humanity that covers the Earth. That said, let everyone be prepared or get ready because we are exactly in the turn from the sixth to the seventh Day, we are exactly in the beginning of the seventh and last GOD's Day, and here is what each one of us must do, remembering that GOD ordered Noah to enter the Ark, and GOD closed the door. Now what each one of we must do, it GOD says by Isaiah 26:19-21: -> 20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation (ROMANS 2:6-12, TAKE A LOOK) be overpast. 21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity(keep well this revelation): the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain. 19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. (Resurrection-1Thessalonians 4:15-16 among other biblical references,take a look). Furthermore, "After everybody was on board the ark, "the LORD shut him in" (Genesis 7:16)". Now, in the beginning of the seventh and last Day, the Lord's Day, JESUS warned us, saying: Matthew 25:6&10-> At midnight (at the turn from the sixth to the seventh Day) there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet Him. Yeah, go to meet Him, 10 -> for they that are ready will go in with Him to the marriage: -->now the door is shut-> Revelation 11:6. Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom(Revelation 11:15-18 combined with 1Corinthians 15:24-28, take a look) prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. ->(Sad, very sad, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth from now on). purebibleforum.com/index.php?threads/get-ready-the-glory-which-shall-be-revealed-in-us-sons-of-god.4864/ -

 

[Edward429451]

@MoreCoffee, it appears that you base your idea on only one verse. What if there are other verses that seem to contradict your verse? What do you do then?

For example, there are Ephesians 2:8-9, Galatians 3:24-26, and Romans 3:20-22:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference....

So, now, how can we settle the difference between James and Paul? Upon further study, we cannot have contradictions in Scripture because it is all God's Word.

However, we can discern that James and Paul define the word "faith" differently.

James defines "faith" as having head knowledge of God but no genuine commitment to following God's will. He's right that that kind of "faith" will not save a person.

On the other hand, Paul includes under the meaning of "faith" the works that result from it. We aren't saved by any good deeds, as he says in Ephesians 2:8-9, but he follows that statement with verse 10, which says that works are the inevitable result of God's saving us only by faith: "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

Therefore, James and Paul actually agree. Paul is battling the legalists, while James disagrees with people's intellectual assent alone being enough to be saved.

The way I figure it, faith without works is dead, so what does that mean? Well one can liken it to joining the military. Once we get born again, are we not soldiers in the Kingdom of God?

So if someone joins the military and signs up, he then goes through a training period, and a time of testing. So if the man excels at his MOS then he will get promoted. and his name will start to be well known. Patton was a buck private at one time and excelled so much that he began to be given more responsibility and more missions to do and one day after he did good at them, he wakes up and he is a General in the military! There's a natural progression of rank and responsibility.

But if Patton had signed up for the military the very first time, and then he changed his mind and didn't even show up to get on the bus to go to training. He would have been, as they say, AWOL. The military would have realized that, he didnt want to be there, so he didn't show up. And if you dont want to be there, then they dont want you there. They might have let him go without charges.

But that's not what happened. Patton showed up and said yes sir and obeyed orders and went on to excel at the craft so got promoted to General. WHen a man enters the service, he builds trust that his commander is on his side, so he learns to trust them. And the Military also had to learn that they could trust this young Private named Patton that H can handle the responsibility.

It's the same thing with faith in God. We each, us and Jesus has to build a resume of trust between each other. Jesus will not put on you more than you can bear. So to trust the Lord means to obey the Lord and step out in faith in your actions in some way, and leave it to God to handle the situation. We call this, walking in faith, or being led by the spirit.

If a man gets born again and takes no actions in the flesh, how do you know if he is even recognized as an obedient servant? If they go home after being baptized and say, I'm saved...but they have no works of stepping out in faith, then they are AWOL arent they? So if you can show me your faith without works, then I'll show you my faith through my works! Get it?

So the guys who go AWOL might or might not get saved, but the man that shows up in faith and backs it up with his actions will have a higher ranking and mansion in heaven than the guy who went AWOL and sat on his couch.

Salvation is free, but after that, it isnt over, it begins. First you sign up and accept the agreement, then you show up and apply yourselfperhaps work your way up to a huge mansion and you're a 5 star General!

So yeah, we do have to have works. Only an idiot would go AWOL.

 

[BruceLeiter]

God saved me by faith alone. For the first 16 years of my life, I was a good boy. I followed all my parents' and teachers' rules as well as the cultural mores of the 1950s. However, I never felt as if God was close to me; I felt that he was far away. At 16, my loneliness was filled up by Jesus after I heard the message that he was God come close to me to die in my place. The comfort is that once he grabs ahold of me, he never lets me go for all eternity! At the age of 82, I'm still serving him, though all his blessings are still evidence of his grace in my life, as they will be throughout all the future.