Frozen embryos are people

[Mercury]

I honestly think something 'happened' to me 30 yrs ago, when I, just to test what Jesus said ("you don't have, because you don't ask; ask, and you will receive), actually asked him to reveal to me the reality of himself and this gospel thing. I felt like an ass, driving down interstate 81 on my way from Canada to Florida, but I did it anyway. Gotta keep an open mind, right?

So what you did there was open yourself up to psychological influence of the kind when people read horoscopes just to see if they work.
The first question is why did you decide to ask "Jesus" rather than say Vishnu, or Budha or Allah and so on. The answer is . . . . cos of OTHER HUMANS who have steered you down this route.
Why do you even know about the concepts of God and Jesus? . . . . Answer is cos of OTHER HUMANS who have indoctrinated you with the concepts from childhood and/or given you a Bible.

If you'd been born in a different country you'd have been programmed with completely different concepts. So how can they all be true?
The reality is they are ALL just clever human designed systems of human control to make people think and behave in specific ways, ostensibly to make them compliant and passive and unlikely then to rebel and revolt against the worlds real leaders/rulers.

But let's go back to the psychology aspect. When you open your mind to vague concepts and have a yearning for some kind of validation then you will very naturally start to associate future events with your yearnings. It's called the Barnum Effect:

Barnum Effect: Why we tend to believe our own horoscopes

Barnum Effect explains why people believe in generalized personality descriptions as if they are accurate descriptions of their unique self

neurofied.com

As the article sadly states:

“One of the studies showed that over 90% of Americans know their star signs. More than 50% of them read their horoscopes and also believe in the advice given in the descriptions.”

This is quite damning but eloquently highlights the fallacy and inherent danger of abandoning your innate ability to think rationally and critically.

Your approach was 180 degrees the wrong way around. Instead of saying, "I don't know if Jesus exists so I'll ask him to show me" which invites the Barnum Effect, you should have rationally said "There's no evidence for the existence of the Christian God or the divinity of Jesus that it claims and unless such evidence becomes forthcoming it is entirely rational to disbelieve in either".

You obviously had gaps in your life you needed to fill and so allowed yourself to become open to psychological influence as so many other millions of people have done before you. Lest you think me over-critical, know that I too fell into that trap for many years. It's very difficult to back out of it, takes a lot of humility and self-honesty.

I gave God the benefit of my considerable doubt, so to speak.

No, you set aside critical thinking and went for a easy comfortable way to appease your yearnings instead of facing the harshness of real life around you.

After that, things began to change and, I'm telling you, I was not the impetus of those changes.

Barnum Effect and Logical fallacy. You focus on the events and things that support your wished result and discard/ignore those that don't.
We all do it at times.

Seemingly pointless suffering of any kind, in a world created by a perfect God, makes no sense whatsoever... to the human mind at its current capacity.

So here we see your innate intelligence and critical mind fighting for supremacy against the totally irrational psychological trap. You inherently know that the awful suffering and mindless atrocities happening daily around you mean there can not be an all-powerful all-loving god but your psychological indoctrination now means you need to invent a way to apologise for itself. You've come up with the rather lame excuse of "well it's all beyond my capability to understand so I'll just accept it as the truth regardless"

Other Christians often come up with the excuse of "well it's all just part of Gods grand master plan"

It's really sad to see that one. It's actually ridiculous and an incredibly divisive religious lie. It means your religion is essentially asking you to absolve your entity of all atrocious acts and that you have to somehow compartmentalise them and ignore them and sweep them under the carpet. That's just so so wrong.

Imagine if we all chose to worship Hitler. Then if people said "but what about his appalling acts and the Holocaust and so on" then you'd have to say "Oh well, I'm just too simple to understand everything" or "well I know it was bad but it must have all been part of some grand master plan so it's all ok".

Can you see how dangerous and wrong this kind of reasoning is?

If we refuse to apply humanly morals to our world experience then where does that leave us. Your chosen god could once again decide to murder every living thing on the planet including you and your partner and any children and any pets. Would you still think that's a benevolent act?

These things just don't add up when you go back to critical thinking and be honest with yourself. The suffering and abuse and atrocities we see around us every day are NOT the works of any kind of all-loving all-powerful god. It's delusion to pretend such exists and to then make all manner of excuses for his inactions. It's easy to do if you're not personally on the brunt end of the atrocities.

What I am now convinced I HAVE received from God, is that He is infinitely benevolent towards us - that is His main motivational driver.

You've chosen the delusion :-(

All the suffering in this world? I can't figure that one out either.

Correct. It doesn't make sense. That's your innate thinking brain screaming to be let out of the box you've put it into. Listen to it.

 

[fuddy]

My mistake for not stating something more clearly - I didn't ask 'Jesus' to reveal anything to me, I asked God, IF he were really there and possibly listening to me, to communicate to me if the whole thing about Jesus was true, or not. Didn't really expect an answer, but was shocked when, weeks later, things started to change.

I am now convinced these 'changes' were elicited by something from outside of myself, something revealing things to me that can't be validated by mere intellect or understandable evidence, but by some other means.

But it goes waaay farther than that, it becomes ineffably grander, vastly higher than that.

To the point where I'm convinced it isn't delusion, but the beginning of a higher type of knowledge\wisdom.

Whatever answered me is valid.

 

[Mercury]

You've decided to set aside critical thinking and placed your life in the hands of psychological effects. I've been there.
We are all on our own journeys and travel at our own pace so I wish you well on your own journey and I hope you manage to find the truth before its end.

 

[Lamb]

You've decided to set aside critical thinking and placed your life in the hands of psychological effects. I've been there.
We are all on our own journeys and travel at our own pace so I wish you well on your own journey and I hope you manage to find the truth before its end.

We, as Christians, hope that you manage to find the truth before the end.

 

[fuddy]

I've decided to seek whatever has so mysteriously but effectively convinced me that my own critical thinking is critically insufficient to get me anywhere but running in circles within myself. I wish you the very best on your own journey, hermano.

 

[Mercury]

We, as Christians, hope that you manage to find the truth before the end.

And yet you don't even recognise the clear Alchemy references in the Bible, not even in the opening chapters of Genesis. This is because you don't have the "eyes to see" and "ears to hear" that the Bible recounts Jesus speaking of.

Jesus was VERY clear in his warning to you and all other people.

If you do not eat the WHITE and drink the RED then there is no life in you. You're going to die, perish, cease to be.

It's all right there. Everything else is a false machination of the Church and religion.

There are literally millions and millions of so-called Christians across the world all believing that by simply believing something they will whizz off to a future eternal utopia. Yet the very Bible they claim to believe as the Word of God states clearly:

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."


How do you reconcile this ? I mean clearly some Christians areen't really Christians at all but the passage above clearly says that VERY FEW will ever find the way. if the Bible is true then literally millions and millions of hopeful Christians are going to perish and die and be extremely disappointed. Something is VERY BADLY off with the overall situation. This is simple critical thinking.

What is the truth?

The truth is that the BIble allegorically and cryptically tells us about the Tree Of Life and alchemy. It tells us :

1. What the basic process of alchemy involves
2. What specific colours are seen in the alchemists flask during the process
3. What benefits the Philosopher's Stone (Tree Of Life) bestow on humans
4. That without the White and Red Stones of alchemy, there is no life in us

I'm sad that millions and millions and millions of indoctrinated people are going to die. They've been sold an absolute pup by the Church and religion as a whole. Those who relaly control the planet and rule us all do not want us to become like them. Do not want us to become perfectly healthy or immortal. The Bible however teaches us that we can be both but it tells us allegorically and cryptically.

If people don't step back and exercise critical thinking pretty quickly, time will have run out and they will have lost their chance to attain the most important thing they need to survive and prosper.

This great secret is referenced in just about every mainstream religious work including the Bible, the Quran, the Bhagavad Gita, in Taoism and else where. Time is running out for everyone. Stop believing silly fantasies and learn what these works are really telling us.

From Taoism:

If one does not seek after the great Tao (Way) in order to release himself from the wrong mode of life, he will finally lose is chance of possessing the talent -- and is not to be regarded as a wise man. A hundred years of living is but a transient moment, the length of which resembles only a spark struck from a stone. The fate of life is like a bubble floating on water. Those who know nothing but income, emolument, fame, and rank will soon see their faces turning pale and their bodies degenerating. I suppose that the gain of money is capable of filling the valleys, however this non-permanent possession cannot purchase the things which do not come back.

Wu Chen P’ien, Essay on the Understanding of Truth, by Chang Po-tuan, 1078 AD


The fire and the season are to be maintained day and night so that they will conform to the principle of heaven. It is known that the great work can be carried out in cities, and that it is unnecessary to watch over solitude in the large mountain.

Everyone has a chance of getting the medicine of long life, but unfortunately most people are unintelligent and allow the medicine to be wasted.

Wu Chen P’ien, Essay on the Understanding of Truth, by Chang Po-tuan, 1078 AD

 

[Lamb]

And yet you don't even recognise the clear Alchemy references in the Bible, not even in the opening chapters of Genesis. This is because you don't have the "eyes to see" and "ears to hear" that the Bible recounts Jesus speaking of.

Jesus was VERY clear in his warning to you and all other people.

If you do not eat the WHITE and drink the RED then there is no life in you. You're going to die, perish, cease to be.

It's all right there. Everything else is a false machination of the Church and religion.

There are literally millions and millions of so-called Christians across the world all believing that by simply believing something they will whizz off to a future eternal utopia. Yet the very Bible they claim to believe as the Word of God states clearly:

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."


How do you reconcile this ? I mean clearly some Christians areen't really Christians at all but the passage above clearly says that VERY FEW will ever find the way. if the Bible is true then literally millions and millions of hopeful Christians are going to perish and die and be extremely disappointed. Something is VERY BADLY off with the overall situation. This is simple critical thinking.

What is the truth?

The truth is that the BIble allegorically and cryptically tells us about the Tree Of Life and alchemy. It tells us :

1. What the basic process of alchemy involves
2. What specific colours are seen in the alchemists flask during the process
3. What benefits the Philosopher's Stone (Tree Of Life) bestow on humans
4. That without the White and Red Stones of alchemy, there is no life in us

I'm sad that millions and millions and millions of indoctrinated people are going to die. They've been sold an absolute pup by the Church and religion as a whole. Those who relaly control the planet and rule us all do not want us to become like them. Do not want us to become perfectly healthy or immortal. The Bible however teaches us that we can be both but it tells us allegorically and cryptically.

If people don't step back and exercise critical thinking pretty quickly, time will have run out and they will have lost their chance to attain the most important thing they need to survive and prosper.

This great secret is referenced in just about every mainstream religious work including the Bible, the Quran, the Bhagavad Gita, in Taoism and else where. Time is running out for everyone. Stop believing silly fantasies and learn what these works are really telling us.

From Taoism:

If one does not seek after the great Tao (Way) in order to release himself from the wrong mode of life, he will finally lose is chance of possessing the talent -- and is not to be regarded as a wise man. A hundred years of living is but a transient moment, the length of which resembles only a spark struck from a stone. The fate of life is like a bubble floating on water. Those who know nothing but income, emolument, fame, and rank will soon see their faces turning pale and their bodies degenerating. I suppose that the gain of money is capable of filling the valleys, however this non-permanent possession cannot purchase the things which do not come back.

Wu Chen P’ien, Essay on the Understanding of Truth, by Chang Po-tuan, 1078 AD


The fire and the season are to be maintained day and night so that they will conform to the principle of heaven. It is known that the great work can be carried out in cities, and that it is unnecessary to watch over solitude in the large mountain.

Everyone has a chance of getting the medicine of long life, but unfortunately most people are unintelligent and allow the medicine to be wasted.

Wu Chen P’ien, Essay on the Understanding of Truth, by Chang Po-tuan, 1078 AD

What utter nonsense you're trying to push on a Christian forum.

Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. You don't have that and it's the father of lies who tries to get believers to turn away from salvation and towards hell.

 

[Mercury]

What utter nonsense you're trying to push on a Christian forum.

Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. You don't have that and it's the father of lies who tries to get believers to turn away from salvation and towards hell.

Ignorant fundamentalist dogma, nothing more. Jesus iterated the processes of alchemy and warned about the need for its products.
The wider Bible tells you about alchemy all through it. You're calling the Bible nonsense. Your choice.

John 6:53-58:
"Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye EAT the flesh of the Son of man, and DRINK his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life"

Jesus instructions are very clear. Tell me what are you actually EATing and DRINKing so that you have life in you?

 

[Lamb]

Ignorant fundamentalist dogma, nothing more. Jesus iterated the processes of alchemy and warned about the need to its products.
The wider Bible tells you about alchemy all through it. You're calling the Bible nonsense. Your choice.

John 6:53-58:
"Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye EAT the flesh of the Son of man, and DRINK his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life"

Jesus instructions are very clear. Tell me what are you actually EATing and DRINKing so that you have life in you?

Ignorant fundamentalist dogma? On a Christian forum, I'm advising you to not flame Christian beliefs because that's against our rules.

John 6 some say is about faith while others say it's about the Lord's Supper.

 

[Mercury]

John 6 some say is about faith while others say it's about the Lord's Supper.

That would be adding to the scripture. Inventing additional content in order to support a new narrative.

The same thing is done by many people in regards to the story of Genesis where God says (really very very clearly and straight) that if Adam eats from the forbidden tree then ON THAT VERY DAY HE WILL DIE. Adam eats from the tree and does not die. Simple and straight.
This means God lied. A kind of white lie, a kind of coercive threat to try and dissuade Adam from eating from the tree. Parents do the same to their children when they tell them things like "If you behave badly then Santa won't come at Christmas" or "if you look directly at the sun you will go blind" and so on.

The Bible text doesn't need any additional made-up content. It's very clear in Genesis. God said in the most black and white terms that Adam would die on the very same day that he ate from the tree and yet Adam did not die and went on to live for 930 years.

When Jesus said:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye EAT the flesh of the Son of man, and DRINK his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life""

It's being pretty clear though slightly allegorical. It is most definitely saying that you do need to eat something and drink something but he's being cryptic about what those somethings are. They are allegorically white and red in colour ("flesh" and "blood").
Naturally the Church doesn't want the general public knowing about what those two substances are and so has had to invent additional content, different interpretation for that Bible passage and hence you now have millions of people eating bits of paper or bread and drinking wine. At least they are physically eating and driking something as Jesus told us to, but sadly it's not the things Jesus was referring to. Hence those people "have no life in them" as Jesus stated.

 

[Lamb]

That would be adding to the scripture. Inventing additional content in order to support a new narrative.

The same thing is done by many people in regards to the story of Genesis where God says (really very very clearly and straight) that if Adam eats from the forbidden tree then ON THAT VERY DAY HE WILL DIE. Adam eats from the tree and does not die. Simple and straight.
This means God lied. A kind of white lie, a kind of coercive threat to try and dissuade Adam from eating from the tree. Parents do the same to their children when they tell them things like "If you behave badly then Santa won't come at Christmas" or "if you look directly at the sun you will go blind" and so on.

The Bible text doesn't need any additional made-up content. It's very clear in Genesis. God said in the most black and white terms that Adam would die on the very same day that he ate from the tree and yet Adam did not die and went on to live for 930 years.

When Jesus said:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye EAT the flesh of the Son of man, and DRINK his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life""

It's being pretty clear though slightly allegorical. It is most definitely saying that you do need to eat something and drink something but he's being cryptic about what those somethings are. They are allegorically white and red in colour ("flesh" and "blood").
Naturally the Church doesn't want the general public knowing about what those two substances are and so has had to invent additional content, different interpretation for that Bible passage and hence you now have millions of people eating bits of paper or bread and drinking wine. At least they are physically eating and driking something as Jesus told us to, but sadly it's not the things Jesus was referring to. Hence those people "have no life in them" as Jesus stated.

You're way off on this. Scripture interprets scripture and your beliefs don't line up.

 

[Mercury]

So I'm wrong because you say I'm wrong?


Song of Solomon 5:10-16:
"My beloved is white and ruddy, the chiefest among ten thousand. His head is as the most fine gold, his
locks are bushy, and black as a raven"

That's scripture. That's scripture once AGAIN informing YOU of the importance of the WHITE and the RED. Will you ignore scripture?

Note the reference to BLACK too (Raven). That is the third primary and vital colour of the work of alchemy to produce the Elixir/Tree of life. It is the colour of the putrefaction stage. The stage that is vital for without decomposition and putrefaction nothing new can be made. Need more scripture? Here's Jesus telling YOU how important that putrefaction stage is:

John 12:23-24:
Jesus replied, “The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. Verily, verily, I say unto you,
Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.


The BIble references this stuff all the way through it. It keeps on and on and on iterating the THREE PRIMARY COLOURS of the alchemy process. BLACK then WHITE then RED. There are other colours seen during the work inbetween those primary stages and they are often referred to as the "Peacock". They can be yellow, green, blue and so on but it is the Black, White and Red that are most important.


Here's more:
Zechariah 6:
6. I looked up again, and there before me were four chariots coming out from between two mountains—mountains of bronze. The first chariot had red horses, the second black, the third white, and the fourth dappled—all of them powerful.


And another reference you will have read many times but never understood the allegorical reference:

Genesis 19:6-12
"And it came to pass at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made:
And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth.
Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground;

Raven (or crow) = BLACK stage of the work
Dove = WHITE stage of the work

It's not a literal story. Most of Genesis is allegorical.


Lamentations 4:7
Their princes were brighter than snow
and whiter than milk,
their bodies more ruddy than rubies,
their appearance like lapis lazuli.

8 But now they are blacker than soot;
they are not recognized in the streets.
Their skin has shriveled on their bones;
it has become as dry as a stick.


White, Red, Black yet again. The primary colours of Alchemy.


Revelation 6
2: I looked, and there before me was a white horse!
4: Then another horse came out, a fiery red one
5: I looked, and there before me was a black horse



Most Christians are completely unaware of all this. They've never heard of alchemy. But that's because not everyone has the eyes to see

Matthew 13
"it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given."
"Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand."
"For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed"

"But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. 17For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them."