What do we tell unsaved about biblical election?

[BruceLeiter]

Good day, All

Just to good not to share.

During my 2010 reading list I read multiple books on Evangelism these two were on the list.


God Centered Evangelism- https://www.amazon.com/God-Centered-Evangelism-R-Kuiper/dp/0851511104


Specifically, [the unsaved] should be told that election spells salvation by divine grace, that human merit is out of the question, and that therefore there is hope for the chief of sinners; that the God of election sincerely, cordially, urgently even, invites every sinner to salvation; that predestination, far from excluding human responsibility, definitely includes it so that all who hear the gospel proclaimed are in sacred duty bound to believe, and, God not being the cause of unbelief as he is the cause of faith, those who persist in unbelief perish wholly through their own fault; that the decree of election is not secret in the sense that none can be certain of belonging to the elect, but that, on the contrary, faith in Christ being the fruit and also the proof of election, one can be just as sure of being numbered among the elect as of being a believer; that the house into which they are invited has an eternal, unmovable foundation, so that he who enters, though all hell should assail him, cannot possibly perish but will most certainly inherit everlasting life."

– Kuiper

Certainly the best book on the subject of Evangelism would be Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God By J.I Packer

Amazon.com


“The only aspect of divine sovereignty that will concern us in these pages is God’s sovereignty in grace: His almighty action in bringing helpless sinners home through Christ to Himself"

“The sovereignty of God in grace gives us our only hope of success in evangelism. It should make us bold.”

It should make us patient.
It should make us prayerful


In Him,

Bill

Kuiper lived in a different time, when unbelievers were probably more aware of theological ideas in the Netherlands. Now, in a secular society, the idea of election would never cross the minds of unbelievers. So, we shouldn't bring it up until much later when they are in the learning process as believers to become church members, because it may distract them from Jesus' salvation, which is the central theme of their decision to follow him.

 

[BruceLeiter]

Good day, All

Just to good not to share.

During my 2010 reading list I read multiple books on Evangelism these two were on the list.


God Centered Evangelism- Amazon.com


Specifically, [the unsaved] should be told that election spells salvation by divine grace, that human merit is out of the question, and that therefore there is hope for the chief of sinners; that the God of election sincerely, cordially, urgently even, invites every sinner to salvation; that predestination, far from excluding human responsibility, definitely includes it so that all who hear the gospel proclaimed are in sacred duty bound to believe, and, God not being the cause of unbelief as he is the cause of faith, those who persist in unbelief perish wholly through their own fault; that the decree of election is not secret in the sense that none can be certain of belonging to the elect, but that, on the contrary, faith in Christ being the fruit and also the proof of election, one can be just as sure of being numbered among the elect as of being a believer; that the house into which they are invited has an eternal, unmovable foundation, so that he who enters, though all hell should assail him, cannot possibly perish but will most certainly inherit everlasting life."

– Kuiper

Certainly the best book on the subject of Evangelism would be Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God By J.I Packer

Amazon.com


“The only aspect of divine sovereignty that will concern us in these pages is God’s sovereignty in grace: His almighty action in bringing helpless sinners home through Christ to Himself"

“The sovereignty of God in grace gives us our only hope of success in evangelism. It should make us bold.”

It should make us patient.
It should make us prayerful


In Him,

Bill

However, today almost no unbeliever that you would encounter in the western culture or any other one would know the controveries over election and predestination the way that they probably did in Abraham Kuiper's day. In talking to unbelievers, therefore, I would never bring it up.

 

[BruceLeiter]

If God so loved this WORLD, which includes all human beings, He would not have died for that world. If God by decree condemns most of humanity to hell, is that love?


If God did not save the world, then He cannot provide individuals salvation either. Heaven and hell would not even exist outside of Christ's reconciliation of the world. That includes every human being. All men will be raised in the last day, immortal and incorruptible to stand in judgement before Christ and will either be awared heaven or hell, determined by one's free choice.

Before the fall, Adam's purpose was to work with God in bringing the world as a living sacrifice to God. But Adam, having been seduced by Eve disobeyed the divine commandment and suffered death. Death to the human race and the world.

You may believe that God did not reverse the consequences of Adam, but the Bible differs with your view. If He did not reverse the consequences of the fall you could not speak of being saved, since all humans and lt he world would be dissolved by death with no future existence.
His Incarnation and resurrection, also called the salvation, reconciliation of the world provided for an eternity, and made possible both heaven and hell.

When God created Adam and Eve, they instituted rebellion against him, a kind of a coup. We all participated in that rebellion too, because Adam passed it on to us as our head, as Paul has said. God could have sent all humans to hell. But his love for the world, humans, was so great that he calls his world to repent of our rebellious natures and turn to him for him to rescue us through his gift of faith in Jesus' death and resurrection. He promises a new world, a new heaven and new earth, for all who believe. Sadly, many people will continue their rebellion until they die, when they will face God's just judgment of "guilty" (pictured by Jesus in the last part of Matthew 25), whereas because of Jesus' death, believers are "not guily," only because of Jesus' death.

 

[BruceLeiter]

I agree with Josiah relevant to the command for all believers to teach, preach and evangelize the world.
However, as to point of theology scripture and historical record does not support the theory of what Calvinist call election. There are too many examples in scripture of believers who failed to remain faithful. After all, man has free will. God does not decide who believes and who does not. He calls all men to repentance, Acts 17:30, II Pet 3:9, Rom 2:4-8, Rom1:18-21.
God could not be just if He forordained anyone to eternal damnation. He saved all men from the condemnation of death and sin just so man could again freely choose Him Simply put, Christ reversed the fall of Adam thus giving man the privilege to have a personal relationship with God, the same as Adam who by his own free will chose death.

So, you don't think that God inspired Paul to write Ephesians 1:3-14, Broadway, because Paul clearly disagrees with your idea?

 

[BruceLeiter]

Good day, Bruce

I can only refer you back to Kuiper's work "God Centered Evangelism".

In Him,

Bill

Abraham Kuiper lived in a very different time when religious controversies were public discussions in Holland that people were aware of. Now, in secular cultures, the subject would never come up. So, we should concentrate on our own witnessing and sharing of our beliefs with an emphasis on God's work in our lives and leave the deeper doctrines for later when they are ready for them as growing disciples of Jesus.

 

[brightfame52]

What do we tell unsaved about biblical election?​

The Truth about it. Its by God's unconditional sovereign grace. Thats its for a remnant Rom 11:5-7

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

 

[BruceLeiter]

The Truth about it. Its by God's unconditional sovereign grace. Thats its for a remnant Rom 11:5-7

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Why would you ever tell an unsaved person about that truth, with which I agree, by the way. If it doesn't come up, which it won't in our western culture, we need to put that true doctrine into our churches' educational programs for when they are growing believers.

 

[brightfame52]

Why would you ever tell an unsaved person about that truth, with which I agree, by the way. If it doesn't come up, which it won't in our western culture, we need to put that true doctrine into our churches' educational programs for when they are growing believers.

What kind of question is that ? Why tell a person the Truth ? Thats a ridiculous question.

 

[BruceLeiter]

What kind of question is that ? Why tell a person the Truth ? Thats a ridiculous question.

No, it's just that we don't have to tell unsaved people the deeper doctrines while we are calling them to believe in the basic truths dealing directly with their need to accept Jesus' offer of his rescue from their imperfections because of his love for them. I said, "that truth," that is, election.

 

[brightfame52]

No, it's just that we don't have to tell unsaved people the deeper doctrines while we are calling them to believe in the basic truths dealing directly with their need to accept Jesus' offer of his rescue from their imperfections because of his love for them. I said, "that truth," that is, election.

Election is a foundation Gospel Truth. Jesus preached election and limited atonement to a gentile women but she wasnt discouraged because He gave her Faith Matt 15:23-25

23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

Jesus preached the discriminating doctrine in the synagogue and they got mad Lk 4:25-28

25 But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land;

26 But unto none of them was Elias sent, save unto Sarepta, a city of Sidon, unto a woman that was a widow.

27 And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Eliseus the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian.

28 And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath,

 

[BruceLeiter]

Election is a foundation Gospel Truth. Jesus preached election and limited atonement to a gentile women but she wasnt discouraged because He gave her Faith Matt 15:23-25

23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

Jesus preached the discriminating doctrine in the synagogue and they got mad Lk 4:25-28

25 But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land;

26 But unto none of them was Elias sent, save unto Sarepta, a city of Sidon, unto a woman that was a widow.

27 And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Eliseus the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian.

28 And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath,

So, are you saying that you would bring up the subject of election to an unsaved couple to whom you are presenting the gospel for the first time? It might offend them to know that they might not be among the elect. Why not let the Holy Spirit work and choose whether to save them instead? My reason is that neither you nor I know who is God's elect, because we don't see their hearts and thus don't know how God is going work. I would leave it in God's hands once I have shared the gospel with them without telling them that deep doctrine.

 

[brightfame52]

@BruceLeiter

So, are you saying that you would bring up the subject of election to an unsaved couple to whom you are presenting the gospel for the first time?

Yes that's how one is saved by Grace ! The election of Grace

 

[BruceLeiter]

@BruceLeiter



Yes that's how one is saved by Grace ! The election of Grace

You can say it's by grace and explain that word without saying that God decided on their salvation before creation. That information should be reserved for later when they are maturing in the faith. It's the meat, not the milk, of the Good News.

 

[brightfame52]

You can say it's by grace and explain that word without saying that God decided on their salvation before creation. That information should be reserved for later when they are maturing in the faith. It's the meat, not the milk, of the Good News.

I disagree. Election of Grace is foundational. Grace is foundational !

 

[BruceLeiter]

I disagree. Election of Grace is foundational. Grace is foundational !

I agree with you that grace is foundational, but telling people that God decided on applying that grace to eventual believers before creation may confuse and even alienate them from accepting Christ. We can teach them that truth later in education classes. I'm thinking of it from a pastoral viewpoint, having been a pastor for 27 years, now retired.

 

[brightfame52]

@BruceLeiter

, but telling people that God decided on applying that grace to eventual believers before creation may confuse and even alienate them from accepting Christ

I disagree,and besides its the Spirits job to lead into truth and understanding of election of grace, its the Gospel

 

[BruceLeiter]

@BruceLeiter



I disagree,and besides its the Spirits job to lead into truth and understanding of election of grace, its the Gospel

I hope that you don't confuse and irritate people when you tie God's election of believers before his creation with his grace in saving them in talking to unbelievers. I think we need to agree to disagree with each other about that use of the doctrine of election, on which we both agree.

 

[brightfame52]

I hope that you don't confuse and irritate people when you tie God's election of believers before his creation with his grace in saving them in talking to unbelievers. I think we need to agree to disagree with each other about that use of the doctrine of election, on which we both agree.

Yes, "...believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved..." (Acts 16:31), but what is it to believe on Jesus Christ? Is it to remain ignorant of who He died for? How then would one know, and believe aright, what lies at the heart of the Gospel’s central tenet, what Christ has done? Some say, ‘The righteousness of Christ is all that the Gospel is about but one cannot be saved without knowledge of election and regeneration etc'. They say these doctrines get preached to a person after they have believed in the righteousness of Christ. But how can these grace doctrines, especially election, be preached later and not as part of the Gospel, when they are the very things that define what Christ has done and for whom He has done it? Scripture says that to trust in Christ is only possible "...AFTER that ye heard the word of truth, the Gospel of your salvation..." (Eph. 1:13). To trust in Christ one must know what He has done and for whom He has done it. How this could be done without knowledge of election, that God gave His Son the people He was to die for and impute His righteousness to, is beyond me. How can one speak about what Christ has done and yet remain silent as to whom His Work pertains to? How can one speak about who Christ has died for, and established a perfect righteousness for, whilst remaining silent on election? The Doctrines Of The Gospel... (2) | godsonlygospel

 

[MoreCoffee]

What do we tell unsaved about biblical election?

If you told them the whole story unvarnished and without soothing words to smooth things over, they [that is, the unsaved] would be repulsed by the deity you told them about.

 

[brightfame52]

How can you preach about what Christ did if you do not mention those whom He did it for, and therefore election?