Limited Revealation

[BruceLeiter]

Everyone gets born with a sinful nature but a baby can't sin yet. They're just not capable of sinning.
I don't know if they are and I have no idea how that can be. I know that text that an enemy did that, but what did the enemy do? Sow false teaching while the church slept and create tares like that or take for instance the ac, I don't think that with great nurture and christian influence he would turn out better. I have no idea.

It's my observation and knowledge of the Bible that David's observation in Psalm 51 that he was born in sin is true. Why? God inspired David to say it, according to Paul in 2 Timothy 3:16-17. Also, babies are born very self-centered, love being the center of adults' attention, and have to be taught that God must be the center of their lives. Self-centeredness, I think, is the biblical definition of sin.

 

[prism]

Yes, every insight we have about God and his Word are to God's credit, not ours, since he gives us faith by his grace.

Mt. 16:17 has more to do with God revealing to us (as does this thread) rather than 'giving us faith'. Or do you consider the two the same?

 

[BruceLeiter]

Mt. 16:17 has more to do with God revealing to us (as does this thread) rather than 'giving us faith'. Or do you consider the two the same?

No, as Paul says in Romans 1 that God reveals himself as the Creator in his creation and in the Bible, but he has also enabled believers to believe in him through his gift of faith.

 

[BruceLeiter]

Innocent. Not holy and sinless like Adam before the fall. Otherwise there would be those who never sin.
For such is the Kingdom, become as a child.

Are Babies Sinners? Are Babies Sinful or Innocent? Jesse Morrell

This is an excerpt from the book, “The Natural Ability of Man: A Study on Free Will & Human Nature” by Jesse Morrell. To order this book: Click Here ARE BABIES SINFUL OR INNOCENT? Since Je…

biblicaltruthresources.wordpress.com

ARE BABIES SINFUL OR INNOCENT?​

Since Jesus said, “If ye were blind, ye should have no sin…” (Jn. 9:41), and since James said, “Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin” (Jas. 4:17); infants are, therefore, morally innocent. This is because they don’t yet know right from wrong and they cannot yet know right from wrong. They have “no knowledge between good and evil” (Deut. 1:39) and do not yet “know to refuse the evil, and choose the good” (Isa. 7:15-16). Consequently, infants haven’t yet made any moral choices. Infants have not yet “done any good or evil” (Rom. 9:11). Without moral knowledge, you cannot have moral obligation or make moral choices. And without moral obligation and without moral choices, you cannot have moral character. It is impossible for infants to have moral knowledge due to the undeveloped state of their minds. Therefore, in their case, ignorance does equal innocence. Their ignorant state is not criminal since it is unintentional and unavoidable.
Since infants are without moral knowledge, moral obligation, moral choices, and consequently without moral character, they are exempt from the wrath of God. Only those who have a developed mind or have enough knowledge are “without excuse” before God (Rom. 1:20). The “wrath of God” is coming upon those who “hold the truth in unrighteousness” (Rom. 1:18). That means that God’s wrath is against those who possess the truth and yet are sinning anyway. Infants, therefore, have an excuse for their behavior and are not under the wrath of God because they do not yet possess moral knowledge of right and wrong.


Since infants are without moral knowledge, without moral obligation, and without moral choices, this adequately explains why the Bible explicitly describes infants as morally “innocent” (2 Kin. 21:16; 24:4; Jer. 13:26-27; Ps. 106:37-38; Matt. 18:3). When Bible talks about the shedding of “innocent blood” (2 Kin. 21:16), the context of this passage is child sacrifices

I don't agree with the rest that he writes. He believes people have no sinful nature.

Jesus welcomed and blessed little children and babies, but it doesn't mean that they are innocent. He blessed adults with healing and his teachings the same way. It was his grace and love for sinners that distinguished him from the religious leaders.

What do you say about Psalm 51, where David says under God's inspiration that he was conceived and born in sin (Psalm 51:5)? And what do you say about Ephesians 2:1-3, which says that all of the Ephesian believers were previously dead to God as "children of wrath"?
Eph 2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
Eph 2:2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—
Eph 2:3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

My observation of our children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren is that they are born self-centered. They love to be the center of adults' attention and demand that parents meet their needs. They have to be taught that the God of the Bible must be the center of their lives. Sin is self-centeredness, and babies are involved in it too.

 

[BruceLeiter]

Of that I do not know for certain. It is held by many that (Gen. 6:1-2) speaks of sexual intercourse between angels and women which was an angelic intrusion into the human race. So the idea should not be as far fetched as it first appears.

I believe something occurred at the fall that introduced another seed line into Adam's race. (Gen. 3:15) And at the beginning that seed line was clearly distinct with Cains line identified in (Gen. 4:16-24) and described in very worldly terms and boasting of murders.

Then compare that to Seth who is described as "another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew." (Gen. 4:25) And when Seth had a son, Enos, we are told, "then began men to call upon the name of the LORD." (4:26)

In other words, why did it not say "another son instead of Abel whom Cain slew"? Answer: because the seed line was the purpose, not just another son.

Lees

Lees, I believe that the reference in Genesis 6:1-2 is to the two lines from Adam, believing through Seth and unbelieving through Cain (given the two genealogies in chapters 3 and 5) mixing together, and evil wins temporarily until the Flood. The seeds of Cain and Seth were both the product of Adam and Eve.

 

[BruceLeiter]

If God desires all to be saved why does He reveal truths to only some?

Matthew 13:10-11 NASB95
And the disciples came and said to Him, "Why do You speak to them in parables?" [11] Jesus answered them, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.

Did you misspell the word "revelation" in the title to this thread on purpose? I'm just curious.

 

[prism]

Did you misspell the word "revelation" in the title to this thread on purpose? I'm just curious.

Probably on purpose as it has very little to do with the Book of Revelation, but focuses on why God reveals Himself (in special revelation) to some (limited revelation) and not others. Poetic license, if you will.

 

[BruceLeiter]

Probably on purpose as it has very little to do with the Book of Revelation, but focuses on why God reveals Himself (in special revelation) to some (limited revelation) and not others. Poetic license, if you will.

I think it's pretty clever. Thanks for you explanation.

 

[BruceLeiter]

Paradoxes in Scripture Are Concurrent Truths​

A paradox is not the same as a contradiction. It is two truths that are seemingly contradictory, but in reality are not. We may not be able to resolve the statements, but the statements are true nevertheless. In theology, this has also been called, “concurrence.” Concurrence means “running together.” Two statements concur, or work together, without being contradictory.

What Do We Do When Certain Doctrines Seemingly Contradict Each Other? (Paradoxes and Concurrent Truths) by Don Stewart

Don Stewart :: What Do We Do When Certain Doctrines Seemingly Contradict Each Other? (Paradoxes and Concurrent Truths)

www.blueletterbible.org

Very true, messy! I categorize unresolved concurrences as mysteries we must accept because it is God's inspired Word. The Trinity, Jesus' divine and human natures, and his providential plans with humans' full responsibility for their lives come to mind as mysterious truths of God's Word that are revealed but mysterious to us.

 

[BruceLeiter]

Everyone gets born with a sinful nature but a baby can't sin yet. They're just not capable of sinning.
I don't know if they are and I have no idea how that can be. I know that text that an enemy did that, but what did the enemy do? Sow false teaching while the church slept and create tares like that or take for instance the ac, I don't think that with great nurture and christian influence he would turn out better. I have no idea.

Babies are sinners too; they love to be the center of adults' attention and demand to have their needs met. Sin is self-centeredness, not just sinful action consciously done.

 

[BruceLeiter]

Everyone gets born with a sinful nature but a baby can't sin yet. They're just not capable of sinning.
I don't know if they are and I have no idea how that can be. I know that text that an enemy did that, but what did the enemy do? Sow false teaching while the church slept and create tares like that or take for instance the ac, I don't think that with great nurture and christian influence he would turn out better. I have no idea.

Kids are clearly sinners; I've seen it in my kids, grandkids, and great-grandkids. As babies, they all want their needs satisfied NOW, and they love to be the center of adults' attention. Sin is self-centeredness, and children have to be taught to move from their self-centeredness to God-centeredness through Jesus.