Isn't it time for you all to repent of schism?

[MoreCoffee]

After five centuries of failed religious reform, perhaps it's time for those within Protestant denominations to reconsider the historical division from Catholicism. The invitation to reunite remains open.

 

[Lamb]

Repent of what? Of believing that Jesus saves us by grace through faith apart from works?

 

[Frankj]

After five centuries of failed religious reform, perhaps it's time for those within Protestant denominations to reconsider the historical division from Catholicism. The invitation to reunite remains open.

That could also be seen as a two way street, with the Catholics doing the same in regard to the Protestants.

But I doubt it will happen to any significant extent before the return of the Savior that will unite us all -the entirety of humanity- in common knowledge of truth.

Just the way I see it, it may turn out differently.

 

[MoreCoffee]

That could also be seen as a two way street, with the Catholics doing the same in regard to the Protestants.

But I doubt it will happen to any significant extent before the return of the Savior that will unite us all -the entirety of humanity- in common knowledge of truth.

Just the way I see it, it may turn out differently.

Catholic reform has not led to a significant number of denominations and independent churches, whereas Protestant reform has; it appears that within Protestantism there is no practical boundary that cannot be crossed in order to justify the creation of a new group.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Repent of what? Of believing that Jesus saves us by grace through faith apart from works?

Repent of schism from the one Church that Jesus said he was building. Surely no one really believes that Jesus said

"And on this rock, I will build a multiplicity of denominations and independent churches"​

​

 

[Frankj]

Repent of schism from the one Church that Jesus said he was building. Surely no one really believes that Jesus said

"And on this rock, I will build a multiplicity of denominations and independent churches"​

​

Curious: Do you believe that it was Peter or Peter's confession of Jesus as the Christ that was the rock that Jesus was referring to when he said it was upon it that he would build his Church?

 

[Frankj]

Catholic reform has not led to a significant number of denominations and independent churches, whereas Protestant reform has; it appears that within Protestantism there is no practical boundary that cannot be crossed in order to justify the creation of a new group.

Not meaning to start contention, but could this not be explained that anyone not agreeing with the leadership of the Catholic Church from the Pope on down is simply cast out of the Church and forbidden to be a part of it?

 

[BruceLeiter]

After five centuries of failed religious reform, perhaps it's time for those within Protestant denominations to reconsider the historical division from Catholicism. The invitation to reunite remains open.

If the RCC will renounce their additional tradition that they have added alongside Scripture, there could be union, but until then, no way.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Curious: Do you believe that it was Peter or Peter's confession of Jesus as the Christ that was the rock that Jesus was referring to when he said it was upon it that he would build his Church?

I do not believe that it was a non-denominational statement of faith that Jesus said would be the rock upon which he would build his church, no sir, I do not believe that. But I do believe that Jesus said, "you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.", Peter being Rock in Greek. And since Jesus was speaking in Aramaic (rather than Greek) to the disciples he said in Aramaic to Simon "you are Cephas (rock) and upon this rock (Cephas) I will build my church ..."

 

[MoreCoffee]

Not meaning to start contention, but could this not be explained that anyone not agreeing with the leadership of the Catholic Church from the Pope on down is simply cast out of the Church and forbidden to be a part of it?

Do you think that is what happened, really?

I think that what the Catholic Church teaches comes from Christ and so when a person says "I don't agree with that! It's not that way at all; it is this way that I just discovered when reading my bible in English" the person is disagreeing with Christ's teaching and has effectively excommunicated himself from the communion of the saints.

 

[MoreCoffee]

If the RCC will renounce their additional tradition that they have added alongside Scripture, there could be union, but until then, no way.

We're not offering a negotiation about what to believe, Catholics are extending a hand of welcome to all those who want to enter into communion with the Catholic Church. Those who reject the offer today can accept it another day, when the Holy Spirit enlightens their minds and draws them into full communion with the Catholic Church.

 

[Frankj]

Do you think that is what happened, really?

I think that what the Catholic Church teaches comes from Christ and so when a person says "I don't agree with that! It's not that way at all; it is this way that I just discovered when reading my bible in English" the person is disagreeing with Christ's teaching and has effectively excommunicated himself from the communion of the saints.

Well, I'm not Catholic (although my mothers side of the family was) so I have an outsiders perspective of things, but it seems that the current Pope has a very non Biblical view of the world in the current times and anyone openly disagreeing with it is tossed out.

There are just way too many teachings in the Catholic Church, all of them presumably infallible, that I can never see protestants agreeing with, and vice versa so I just can't see any unification short of the second coming of Christ to earth to rule it.

I think it's important to realize that we are two thousand years removed from Christ on Earth, two thousand years removed from the early Christians that knew or knew those who directly knew him so that there is undoubtedly a great deal of error and loss of knowledge that has crept into Christianity as a whole. We are warned about falling into false doctrine, and that it will dominate those who call themselves Christian in the latter days (presumable with those still following or trying to follow true doctrine being the unwanted minority).

This is, of course, all conjecture and we will have to wait to see what happens when it happens, something I think may be coming sooner rather than later.

May your day be blessed.

 

[MoreCoffee]

There are just way too many teachings in the Catholic Church, all of them presumably infallible

Well no. No there are not too many teachings. And no, they are not all infallible.

I just can't see any unification short of the second coming of Christ to earth to rule it.

Then you don't agree with Jesus Christ who said, of the church, "and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it." He says "it" as in one, not as in many dozens of denominations and thousands of independent churches. And what do you think he means when he, speaking to the apostles as he rose to heaven, says, "behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age." Surely, he was promising something substantial and comforting rather than a promise to allow Christians to fight and quarrel over doctrine until the end of the age.

I think it's important to realize that we are two thousand years removed from Christ on Earth, two thousand years removed from the early Christians that knew or knew those who directly knew him so that there is undoubtedly a great deal of error and loss of knowledge that has crept into Christianity as a whole.

You disagree with Jesus again, when he made the two promises quoted above; specifically, that the netherworld will not overcome the church, and that Jesus will be with his people in every way and every day until the end of the age.

We are warned about falling into false doctrine, and that it will dominate those who call themselves Christian in the latter days (presumable with those still following or trying to follow true doctrine being the unwanted minority).

Of course, the church is warned that heresies will arise, that people will form factions and go into schism, and that people will pervert the gospel message, but this is not what the church will do it is what heretics do. And heretics are excommunicated from the church by their heresies. Why? It is because of the church this is said, "you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth."

This is, of course, all conjecture and we will have to wait to see what happens when it happens, something I think may be coming sooner rather than later.

It is conjecture for you, as you wrote, not so for the Church of the living God which is the pillar and ground of Truth because Christ is with her and in her and because he works in her through this age to keep her as his spotless bride, as saint John reveals in his book, The Revelation.

Fear not, the door is open, you are called to enter, to receive the truth and grow into the maturity that Christ Jesus calls his people to.

 

[psalms 91]

Lets face it if Christ had come back at that time He would have come against all the corruption within and taking advatage of the people. Selling indulgences, prayers for the dead so many things that went against scripture. There was a reason that Luther posted his 95 points

 

[MoreCoffee]

Lets face it if Christ had come back at that time He would have come against all the corruption within and taking advatage of the people. Selling indulgences, prayers for the dead so many things that went against scripture. There was a reason that Luther posted his 95 points

Your assertion may be an overstatement or, at its worst, a relic of 16th-century Protestant propaganda devoid of truth. However, even with certain abuses that any Christian would find disturbing, it does not imply that these abuses define the Catholic Church. Similarly, the misdeeds of individuals within any religious group do not characterize the entire group. The recent scandal in the Church of England does not transform the entire institution into a scandalous entity. Furthermore, prayers for the deceased are entirely scriptural, and Martin Luther would not have embraced the theology of a Baptist or Bible Church. Therefore, it does not necessarily mean that Luther was corrupt or that he failed to achieve what was later accomplished by independent groups. All things considered; many branches of Protestantism have become indistinguishable from restorationist religions seeking a return to their own vision of what they believe first century Christianity was like.

So, the door is unlocked, and all one need do is open and enter, the Catholic Church will receive all who come. It truly is time to repent of the old and ancestral schism that has made a laughingstock of Christian unity.

 

[Frankj]

Well no. No there are not too many teachings. And no, they are not all infallible.

Then you don't agree with Jesus Christ who said, of the church, "and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it." He says "it" as in one, not as in many dozens of denominations and thousands of independent churches. And what do you think he means when he, speaking to the apostles as he rose to heaven, says, "behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age." Surely, he was promising something substantial and comforting rather than a promise to allow Christians to fight and quarrel over doctrine until the end of the age.

You disagree with Jesus again, when he made the two promises quoted above; specifically, that the netherworld will not overcome the church, and that Jesus will be with his people in every way and every day until the end of the age.

Of course, the church is warned that heresies will arise, that people will form factions and go into schism, and that people will pervert the gospel message, but this is not what the church will do it is what heretics do. And heretics are excommunicated from the church by their heresies. Why? It is because of the church this is said, "you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth."

It is conjecture for you, as you wrote, not so for the Church of the living God which is the pillar and ground of Truth because Christ is with her and in her and because he works in her through this age to keep her as his spotless bride, as saint John reveals in his book, The Revelation.

Fear not, the door is open, you are called to enter, to receive the truth and grow into the maturity that Christ Jesus calls his people to.

Well, here's something to ponder: Are you Catholic first or are you Christian first?

Whenever I wonder the nature of the Church, and my relation to it, I always have to keep in mind the wide and narrow roads that lead to the wide and narrow gates. It's easy to think you are on the narrow one when you have actually crossed over to the other, we live in a world were deception is the ruler of the day and it can be quite subtle in its nature as it works it will on us.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Well, here's something to ponder: Are you Catholic first or are you Christian first?

when I read what you wrote it means "are you Christian first or are you Christian first" because the truth is that both words signify a follower of Christ who is a member of the body of Christ which is the church.

Whenever I wonder the nature of the Church, and my relation to it, I always have to keep in mind the wide and narrow roads that lead to the wide and narrow gates. It's easy to think you are on the narrow one when you have actually crossed over to the other, we live in a world were deception is the ruler of the day and it can be quite subtle in its nature as it works it will on us.

Every Christian may encounter uncertainty regarding their calling and the accompanying anxiety, yet they can find solace in the promises of God, for He always speaks the truth and never deceives His people. Jesus has showed his people the way, it is our calling to walk in it.

 

[BruceLeiter]

I do not believe that it was a non-denominational statement of faith that Jesus said would be the rock upon which he would build his church, no sir, I do not believe that. But I do believe that Jesus said, "you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.", Peter being Rock in Greek. And since Jesus was speaking in Aramaic (rather than Greek) to the disciples he said in Aramaic to Simon "you are Cephas (rock) and upon this rock (Cephas) I will build my church ..."

When Jesus said "this rock," he could have also been referring to Peter's faith. After all, Jesus didn't say "you." Furthermore, three verses later, Jesus rejects Peter's criticism of his plans to go to the cross this way:
Mat 16:21 From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised.
Mat 16:22 And Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, saying, “Far be it from you, Lord! This shall never happen to you.”
Mat 16:23 But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.”
What kind of a rock is a tool of Satan to tempt Jesus away from suffering and dying for believers? What kind of a rock would deny that he knows Jesus three times to save his own skin? What kind of a rock, as the supposed head of the church, would let James have the final say at the Council of Jerusalem in the matter of the Gentiles salvation (Acts 15), thus showing that James, not Peter, was the head of the early church?
No, there are too many problems with the Catholic position; it seems to me to be an idea that has been a power-grab for the Popes.

 

[MoreCoffee]

What kind of a rock is a tool of Satan to tempt Jesus away from suffering and dying for believers?

A very human Rock, saint Peter (Cephas, the rock) was not declared to be sinless by Jesus, nor was he promised unerring goodness in all his works and actions. After all, he did deny Jesus three times, as Jesus said he would, nevertheless the risen Lord, Jesus, restored him to office asking, "do you love me more than these" and twice more "do you love me" and each time receiving from Peter an affirmation of Peter's love to which Jesus said, "feed my lambs" and "feed my sheep" and again "feed my sheep". So, a man who sins like others is made by the Lord, Jesus Christ, a pastor to feed the sheep that are Christ's people, his special flock, the flock of God.

 

[Castle Church]

I've been there, and swam back across the Tiber. No, thank you.