Does the Sonship of God have an end, or is it eternal?

[Truth Seeker]

A central point of contention between Trinitarian and Oneness Pentecostals is the nature of the Sonship of Jesus Christ. Trinitarians assert that the Sonship is an eternal relationship within the Godhead, while Oneness Pentecostals often argue that it is a temporary state that will cease after the final judgment.

To explore this issue, let’s consider the scriptural evidence. Does the Bible suggest that the Sonship is a permanent or temporary aspect of Jesus’ relationship with God?

1 Corinthians 15:24 states, “Then comes the end, when he will deliver over the kingdom to God the Father, after he has destroyed every rule and every authority and power.” This passage seems to imply that Jesus’ role as Son will eventually come to an end.

However, in 1 Corinthians 15:28, we read, “And when all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who subjected all things to him, that God may be all in all.” This verse suggests that even after all things are subjected to the Son, he will still be subject to the Father.

How do we reconcile these two passages? Does the Bible indicate that the Sonship is a temporary state that will eventually cease, or is it an eternal aspect of the Godhead?

 

[Lamb]

Trinitarians believe that Jesus IS God.

 

[Truth Seeker]

Trinitarians believe that Jesus IS God.

Yes, but at the same time, they say He is not God the Father in Human form. Rather a different Person of God.

 

[Lamb]

Here is the Athanasian Creed to help explain why:

Whoever wishes to be saved must, above all else, hold to the true Christian faith. Whoever does not keep this faith pure in all points will certainly perish forever.

Now this is the true Christian faith: We worship one God in three persons and three persons in one God, without mixing the persons or dividing the divine being. For each person—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit—is distinct, but the deity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, equal in glory and coeternal in majesty. What the Father is, so is the Son, and so is the Holy Spirit. The Father is uncreated, the Son uncreated, the Holy Spirit uncreated; the Father is infinite, the Son infinite, the Holy Spirit infinite; the Father is eternal, the Son eternal, the Holy Spirit eternal; yet they are not three who are eternal, but there is one who is eternal, just as they are not three who are uncreated, nor three who are infinite, but there is one who is uncreated and one who is infinite. In the same way the Father is almighty, the Son is almighty, and the Holy Spirit is almighty; yet they are not three who are almighty, but there is one who is almighty. So the Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God; yet they are not three Gods, but one God. So the Father is Lord, the Son is Lord, the Holy Spirit is Lord; yet they are not three Lords, but one Lord. For just as Christian truth compels us to confess each person individually to be God and Lord, so the true Christian faith forbids us to speak of three Gods or three Lords. The Father is neither made nor created nor begotten of anyone. The Son is neither made nor created, but is begotten of the Father alone. The Holy Spirit is neither made nor created nor begotten, but proceeds from the Father and the Son. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits. And within this Trinity none comes before or after; none is greater or inferior, but all three persons are coequal and coeternal, so that in every way, as stated before, all three persons are to be worshiped as one God and one God worshiped as three persons. Whoever wishes to be saved must have this conviction of the Trinity.

It is furthermore necessary for eternal salvation truly to believe that our Lord Jesus Christ also took on human flesh. Now this is the true Christian faith: We believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son, is both God and man. He is God, eternally begotten from the nature of the Father, and he is man, born in time from the nature of his mother, fully God, fully man, with rational soul and human flesh, equal to the Father as to his deity, less than the Father as to his humanity; and though he is both God and Man, Christ is not two persons but one, one, not by changing the deity into flesh, but by taking the humanity into God; one, indeed, not by mixture of the natures, but by unity in one person; for just as the rational soul and flesh are one human being, so God and man are one Christ. He suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose the third day from the dead. He ascended into heaven, is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty, and from there he will come to judge the living and the dead. At his coming all people will rise with their own bodies to answer for their personal deeds. Those who have done good will enter eternal life, but those who have done evil will go into eternal fire.

This is the true Christian faith. Whoever does not faithfully and firmly believe this cannot be saved.

 

[Truth Seeker]

As we consider the profound mystery of heaven and what it means to stand in the fullness of God’s presence, I’d like to ask for your perspective on a question central to our understanding of worship. Scripture speaks of the glorified Christ as possessing “the fullness of the Godhead bodily” (Colossians 2:9), a powerful phrase that seems to point to the one visible, glorified image of God the Father we will see in eternity. In light of this, when we finally stand before the throne of God, will we behold Jesus Christ as the singular, glorified embodiment of the fullness of God the Father, or would you understand heaven to reveal three distinct persons standing apart from each other? And, if that’s the case, who among them would we worship, given that Scripture affirms one Lord, one faith, one Spirit? I believe this question touches on the core of our worship and anticipation of eternity and would love to hear your thoughts on this heavenly vision.

 

[Lamb]

As we consider the profound mystery of heaven and what it means to stand in the fullness of God’s presence, I’d like to ask for your perspective on a question central to our understanding of worship. Scripture speaks of the glorified Christ as possessing “the fullness of the Godhead bodily” (Colossians 2:9), a powerful phrase that seems to point to the one visible, glorified image of God the Father we will see in eternity. In light of this, when we finally stand before the throne of God, will we behold Jesus Christ as the singular, glorified embodiment of the fullness of God the Father, or would you understand heaven to reveal three distinct persons standing apart from each other? And, if that’s the case, who among them would we worship, given that Scripture affirms one Lord, one faith, one Spirit? I believe this question touches on the core of our worship and anticipation of eternity and would love to hear your thoughts on this heavenly vision.

There is one God. Not three Gods. Your question asks as if there are three Gods.

 

[Truth Seeker]

There is one God. Not three Gods. Your question asks as if there are three Gods.

Help me understand when a Trinitarian says "The Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Father" How are they not talking about two separate centers of consciousness? How is there still One God? And don't tell me like everyone else does that it's hard to understand. Give me a real rational answer. Please and thank you.

 

[Lamb]

Help me understand when a Trinitarian says "The Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Father" How are they not talking about two separate centers of consciousness? How is there still One God? And don't tell me like everyone else does that it's hard to understand. Give me a real rational answer. Please and thank you.

The Athanasian creed that I posted explains this.

 

[Truth Seeker]

The Athanasian creed that I posted explains this.

I have read through it very carefully and nowhere does it rationally explain how dividing God Internally still makes Him One. Division either Internally or externally no matter how anyone put it makes more than One. Unless you can explain it a little better.

 

[Lamb]

I have read through it very carefully and nowhere does it rationally explain how dividing God Internally still makes Him One. Division either Internally or externally no matter how anyone put it makes more than One. Unless you can explain it a little better.

I personally don't like to go much further in explanation than what the creed states because it's too easy to fall into the trap of heresy.

Even most analogies are faulty... there is one that is close, but not exact and it uses an apple... you have a core, flesh and peel, but one apple.

 

[Truth Seeker]

I personally don't like to go much further in explanation than what the creed states because it's too easy to fall into the trap of heresy.

Even most analogies are faulty... there is one that is close, but not exact and it uses an apple... you have a core, flesh and peel, but one apple.

That is a very good analogy, but I do see where it is faulty. We want to love God in ALL of who He is. The peel some don't like, the flesh almost everyone likes and the core almost everyone discards. One apple but still three different things or parts. Plus in seems confusing to pray to God one moment, then The Spirit another moment and then to Christ. I just simply pray to Jesus Christ alone as the Greatest revealed name of God and occasionally in my prayer I may say God, but I never look at them as separate. God is Spirit we can't see and Jesus is that Spirit made visible. That is how I see it. Jesus is the lightbulb and God is ALL the light in the room.

 

[Lamb]

That is a very good analogy, but I do see where it is faulty. We want to love God in ALL of who He is. The peel some don't like, the flesh almost everyone likes and the core almost everyone discards. One apple but still three different things or parts. Plus in seems confusing to pray to God one moment, then The Spirit another moment and then to Christ. I just simply pray to Jesus Christ alone as the Greatest revealed name of God and occasionally in my prayer I may say God, but I never look at them as separate. God is Spirit we can't see and Jesus is that Spirit made visible. That is how I see it. Jesus is the lightbulb and God is ALL the light in the room.

Praying to any of the persons in the Godhead is perfectly acceptable. He is one God though, so when you pray to the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit also receive your prayer.