Tithing

TurtleHare

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How is giving diligence connected to giving offerings ot tithes? I lost the meaning of some of these posts a while back and I don't think i'm alone in this.
 

tango

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4th seal?
19"But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20"But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. 21"For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.…

The Romans were like an eagle, and the ensign of their armies was an eagle. When a people, by their sin, make themselves as loathsome carcasses, nothing can be expected but that God should send enemies to destroy them. It is very applicable to the day of judgment, the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ in that day,

2Th 2:1. Let us give diligence to make our calling and election sure; then may we know that no enemy or deceiver shall ever prevail against us.


3"But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4so that your giving will be in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.

Awesome stuff right there. Did you figure out your opinion regarding tithing yet?
 

visionary

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12294737_1524586297862610_978781807394423153_n.jpg
 

pinacled

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1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 4Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

6And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

7And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

8But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.

9Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, [even] thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

10And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

11They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;

12And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

13But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

14Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?



Sometimes it is best to share.
Tithing is a complex subject even for a seasoned follower of Christ.
There might be a pattern being shown that resembles the flow of increase.
 
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tango

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1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 4Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

6And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

7And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

8But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.

9Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, [even] thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

10And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

11They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;

12And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

13But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

14Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

It's really helpful if you quote a reference rather than just verse numbers. Luckily I recognised this as being Hebrews 1.

Sometimes it is best to share.
Tithing is a complex subject even for a seasoned follower of Christ.
There might be a pattern being shown that resembles the flow of increase.

Why is tithing a complex subject? It's pretty clear - in the OT the tithe related to produce and in the NT we are told that we should give as we purpose and God loves a cheerful giver. To a very wealthy person giving 10% of their income is barely noticed; to someone struggling to keep the lights on 10% is a huge sum to give.

When Paul said how God loves a cheerful giver he also mentioned that we reap what we sow, and that if we sow sparingly or abundantly we will reap sparingly or abundantly. That said, in the context of what Jesus said about the widow's mite it seems far more likely that God will honor us based on relative giving than absolute giving. The person with barely $1 to their name who gives that dollar cheerfully yet quietly is going to get a greater reward than a billionaire who gives $1m just to get their name in the headlines.
 

pinacled

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It's really helpful if you quote a reference rather than just verse numbers. Luckily I recognised this as being Hebrews 1.



Why is tithing a complex subject? It's pretty clear - in the OT the tithe related to produce and in the NT we are told that we should give as we purpose and God loves a cheerful giver. To a very wealthy person giving 10% of their income is barely noticed; to someone struggling to keep the lights on 10% is a huge sum to give.

When Paul said how God loves a cheerful giver he also mentioned that we reap what we sow, and that if we sow sparingly or abundantly we will reap sparingly or abundantly. That said, in the context of what Jesus said about the widow's mite it seems far more likely that God will honor us based on relative giving than absolute giving. The person with barely $1 to their name who gives that dollar cheerfully yet quietly is going to get a greater reward than a billionaire who gives $1m just to get their name in the headlines.


I agree with you on giving in principle.
Yet I am not so sure it relates to tithe.
Do you remember Lay up your treasure in Heaven?

Maybe a parable will help. Pay close attention 2 are doubled.

Matthew 25:14-30English Standard Version (ESV)
The Parable of the Talents

14 “For it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants[a] and entrusted to them his property.
-To one he gave five talents,
-to another two,
-to another one, to each according to his ability.
Then he went away.
-He who had received the five talents went at once and traded with them, and he made five talents more.

-So also he who had the two talents made two talents more.

-But he who had received the one talent went and dug in the ground and hid his master's money.

19 Now after a long time the master of those servants came and settled accounts with them.
20 And he who had received the five talents came forward, bringing five talents more, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me five talents; here I have made five talents more.’

21 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant.
You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’
22 And he also who had the two talents came forward, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me two talents; here I have made two talents more.’ 23 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’

24 He also who had received the one talent came forward, saying, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you scattered no seed, 25 so I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here you have what is yours.’ 26 But his master answered him, ‘You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sown and gather where I scattered no seed? 27 Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him and give it to him who has the ten talents. 29 For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away.
 
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tango

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I agree with you on giving in principle.
Yet I am not so sure it relates to tithe.
Do you remember Lay up your treasure in Heaven?

What has the parable of the talents got to do with tithing? If you want to throw random Bible quotes in there is it really so much to ask that you explain why they are relevant? Without a basic explanation as to just what point (if any) you're trying to make there's not actually a whole lot of purpose in posting at all. Anyone can pick a random section from the Bible that's only tangentially related to the topic at hand and quote it.
 

pinacled

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What has the parable of the talents got to do with tithing? If you want to throw random Bible quotes in there is it really so much to ask that you explain why they are relevant? Without a basic explanation as to just what point (if any) you're trying to make there's not actually a whole lot of purpose in posting at all. Anyone can pick a random section from the Bible that's only tangentially related to the topic at hand and quote it.

Its not random.
 
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MoreCoffee

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Random mysterious references to obscure nonsense interpretations is all one has left when one wants to impose the tithe on free christian people.
 

tango

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pinacled

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Don't suppose there's any chance you might explain what, if any, point you have to make?
Think parallel.
Lay up your Treasure in Heaven.
http://www.openbible.info/topics/tithes_and_offering
Mark 12:41-44 ESV /

And he sat down opposite the treasury and watched the people putting money into the offering box. Many rich people put in large sums. And a poor widow came and put in two small copper coins, which make a penny. And he called his disciples to him and said to them, “Truly, I say to you, this poor widow has put in more than all those who are contributing to the offering box. For they all contributed out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty has put in everything she had, all she had to live on.”

3
"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Malachi 3:10 ESV
Bring the full tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. And thereby put me to the test, says the Lord of hosts, if I will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour down for you a blessing until there is no more need.
Proverbs 11:24 ESV /

One gives freely, yet grows all the richer; another withholds what he should give, and only suffers want.
 

pinacled

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Random mysterious references to obscure nonsense interpretations is all one has left when one wants to impose the tithe on free christian people.

Not sure what you mean.
 

Alithis

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^^^ what Mark posted!! That is what I believe.

i must say i do also
with addition.. what are the reasons for collecting monetary gifts in a congregation from a new testament perspective...

a good way to approach it is to list what it is not collected for in contrast with what is is collected for in the book of acts .
noting always that it is not solicited in the book of acts but freely offered thus making it an offering not an emotional compulsion .

so number one .. this excludes ALL tv evangelist and every thing nthey say as being a valid reason to collect funds .. if they are solicited then they are not an offering but a coercive result .
funds to build a church building - this is another false reason . the temple of god in the old testament was made of bricks -thus collecting funds for its construction was the norm ,but we are now in the spirit and the temple is a living collective of all the hearts of those in whom the spirit of god dwells .it is not a building made by mens hands . thus collecting funds for this purpose is a false premise . Because there is absolutely no real dependency on having a building ..it is not required for the church to exist nor operate .(china has proven this for over 50 years now ) this then annuls a entire HOST of onflow false reasons to collect funds which drain into the worlds coffers ..- life insurance ,electric , car parks costs , rates costs ,and a bunch of other associated costs that arise from the false church building concept .

in contrast to genuine reason for collecting what is offered (not what is solicited) is ..
to aid the poor
the widow
the fatherless
and for the work of spreading the gospel .. remove the upper list and you free up a wealth of funds to actually get on and DO the work of the kingdom .

for the most part ,more money offered is squandered on carpets drapes and sound systems then most missionaire get in a year on the mission field .. this is a sinful thing.
 

tango

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Think parallel.
Lay up your Treasure in Heaven.
http://www.openbible.info/topics/tithes_and_offering
Mark 12:41-44 ESV /

And he sat down opposite the treasury and watched the people putting money into the offering box. Many rich people put in large sums. And a poor widow came and put in two small copper coins, which make a penny. And he called his disciples to him and said to them, “Truly, I say to you, this poor widow has put in more than all those who are contributing to the offering box. For they all contributed out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty has put in everything she had, all she had to live on.”

3
"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Malachi 3:10 ESV
Bring the full tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. And thereby put me to the test, says the Lord of hosts, if I will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour down for you a blessing until there is no more need.
Proverbs 11:24 ESV /

One gives freely, yet grows all the richer; another withholds what he should give, and only suffers want.

So are you saying we should tithe (i.e. a literal 10%) or not? You're writing lots of words and not answering the question.
 

Alithis

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So are you saying we should tithe (i.e. a literal 10%) or not? You're writing lots of words and not answering the question.

i would summarize that aLL we have is Gods .. give it as much or little .. as he tells us to directly or aS COMPASSION COMPELS US .. AND neveR CLOSE UP THE BOWELS OF COMPASSION
 

tango

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i would summarize that aLL we have is Gods .. give it as much or little .. as he tells us to directly or aS COMPASSION COMPELS US .. AND neveR CLOSE UP THE BOWELS OF COMPASSION

That would be my view too, to give as we purpose in our hearts (rather like Paul said to the Corinthians). It would be interesting to know for sure just what pinacled actually thinks.
 

pinacled

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Don't suppose there's any chance you might explain what, if any, point you have to make?

Hand
Eyes
Mouth

The Parable of the Talents

14 “For it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants[a] and entrusted to them his property.
-To one he gave five talents,
-to another two,
-to another one, to each according to his ability.
Then he went away.
-He who had received the five talents went at once and traded with them, and he made five talents more.

-So also he who had the two talents made two talents more.

-But he who had received the one talent went and dug in the ground and hid his master's money.

19 Now after a long time the master of those servants came and settled accounts with them.
20 And he who had received the five talents came forward, bringing five talents more, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me five talents; here I have made five talents more.’

21 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant.
You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’
22 And he also who had the two talents came forward, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me two talents; here I have made two talents more.’ 23 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’

24 He also who had received the one talent came forward, saying, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you scattered no seed, 25 so I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here you have what is yours.’ 26 But his master answered him, ‘You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sown and gather where I scattered no seed? 27 Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him and give it to him who has the ten talents. 29 For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away.
 

tango

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Hand
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The Parable of the Talents

14 “For it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants[a] and entrusted to them his property.
-To one he gave five talents,
-to another two,
-to another one, to each according to his ability.
Then he went away.
-He who had received the five talents went at once and traded with them, and he made five talents more.

-So also he who had the two talents made two talents more.

-But he who had received the one talent went and dug in the ground and hid his master's money.

19 Now after a long time the master of those servants came and settled accounts with them.
20 And he who had received the five talents came forward, bringing five talents more, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me five talents; here I have made five talents more.’

21 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant.
You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’
22 And he also who had the two talents came forward, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me two talents; here I have made two talents more.’ 23 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’

24 He also who had received the one talent came forward, saying, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you scattered no seed, 25 so I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here you have what is yours.’ 26 But his master answered him, ‘You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sown and gather where I scattered no seed? 27 Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him and give it to him who has the ten talents. 29 For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away.


... and your point is?
 

pinacled

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... and your point is?
Perspective.
Well if you are the Temple?

I believe the clearer view would be.
body, soul, spirit.
 
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