Thy Kingdom Come

[Brighten04]

This has been on my mind lately. We are commanded to pray for the kingdom of Heaven to come.

Matt. 5:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

11 Give us this day our daily bread.

12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

Bold is mine.

Lord Jesus told us many parables of what the Kingdom of Heaven is like. But, He also said the Kingdom of Heaven is within us. What are your thoughts on the Kingdom Heaven and the prayer?

 

[psalms 91]

I believe we should pray for it to come as it is already here within us if we are in Christ and Christ is in us and at the same time pray for those who do not show Christ, our leaders for if we are to have the kingdom of heaven on earth then we need that kingdom to spring forth and take reign

 

[Brighten04]

One day, I realized that I knew nothing about living in a kingdom. I prayed to Our Father about it bellyaching about I live in the United States where we vote our leaders in and out of office. I know nothing about living under a King. I think our Father had pity upon me. Now I had read stories about Kings. King Saul, King David, and the other kings in the Bible.But the concept of living under a king really just went over my head. Then one day,I was browsing in a Christian bookstore and I saw a book titled Rediscovering The Kingdom by Dr. Myles Monroe. I had heard of him from a friend so I bought the book.I got a clearer view of a kingdom from his very simple explanation.

 

[Josiah]

I believe we should pray for it to come as it is already here within us if we are in Christ and Christ is in us and at the same time pray for those who do not show Christ, our leaders for if we are to have the kingdom of heaven on earth then we need that kingdom to spring forth and take reign

I agree...

When I pray this, I'm embracing that His Kingdom IS here.... He IS King! But I'm praying that I might always so embrace Him.... and that I might work to make His Kingdom grow here (Great Commission, Great Commandment).


Thank you!


Pax


- Josiah

 

[Brighten04]

I agree...

When I pray this, I'm embracing that His Kingdom IS here.... He IS King! But I'm praying that I might always so embrace Him.... and that I might work to make His Kingdom grow here (Great Commission, Great Commandment).


Thank you!


Pax


- Josiah

Yes. I believe what Lord Jesus has said, that the Kingdom is within me as iI have the Holy Spirit indwelling my body. On Earth I am an ambassador for the Kingdom of Heaven and am a citizen there. So wherever I go, or whatever I do here on this Earth is promotional of the Kingdom of Heaven and the Heavenly culture

Col. 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

In other words, think what our Father thinks, the way our Father thinks.

Isa. 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

How hard is that? The renewing of the mind has to take place so that we think Our Father's thoughts rather than our own. Young people call it syncing up. We have to bring our thoughts in sync with His thoughts. It comes with practice. They say practice makes perfect.
Lord Jesus, our King, has now made this possible by grace through faith in His work completed on Calvary and through the ministry of the Holy Spirit. That makes me just want to shout hallelujah! :arms: Amen!

 

[tango]

This has been on my mind lately. We are commanded to pray for the kingdom of Heaven to come.

Matt. 5:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

11 Give us this day our daily bread.

12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

Bold is mine.

Lord Jesus told us many parables of what the Kingdom of Heaven is like. But, He also said the Kingdom of Heaven is within us. What are your thoughts on the Kingdom Heaven and the prayer?

I think this section of the Lord's Prayer is one that gets badly misused within a lot of bad (and indeed toxic) theology.

I've heard "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven" used to justify the theology of dominionism, the idea that the church must take control over the earth before Jesus can return. But that flies in the face of just about everything we know about God - we want God's will to be done on earth and I'm sure God wants his will to be done on earth but the same God who gave us the freedom to accept or reject him isn't going to suddenly demand that we bow the knee even if we are cursing him inside. After what Jesus said to the Pharisees about being whitewashed tombs it's hard to see God wanting his standards imposed on people by force of law regardless of whether the people concerned want to live by those standards. We see a God who calls out to his people again and again, who gives his people opportunity to repent, to turn back to him, to turn away from their evil ways, but ultimately leaves the decision up to them. We see a God who took on human form and allowed sinners to nail him to a tree and even as he hung there he prayed "Father forgive them". I consider the theology of dominionism to be extremely toxic, to the point I believe it may be building the empire of antichrist rather than the kingdom of God.

Jesus told us to go and preach the gospel. He also said "if you love me, obey my commandments". So we can do God's will on earth and lead by example rather than with the force of law. We can show people that living a Christ-like life is perfectly possible even if it isn't legally mandated. If we practice what we preach even when it costs us something, even when the law of the land doesn't say we have to live by a particular standard, and even when people around us are legally profiting from sinful behaviors, that will speak at least as loudly as whatever words we might happen to use.

 

[Brighten04]

I think this section of the Lord's Prayer is one that gets badly misused within a lot of bad (and indeed toxic) theology.

I've heard "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven" used to justify the theology of dominionism, the idea that the church must take control over the earth before Jesus can return. But that flies in the face of just about everything we know about God - we want God's will to be done on earth and I'm sure God wants his will to be done on earth but the same God who gave us the freedom to accept or reject him isn't going to suddenly demand that we bow the knee even if we are cursing him inside. After what Jesus said to the Pharisees about being whitewashed tombs it's hard to see God wanting his standards imposed on people by force of law regardless of whether the people concerned want to live by those standards. We see a God who calls out to his people again and again, who gives his people opportunity to repent, to turn back to him, to turn away from their evil ways, but ultimately leaves the decision up to them. We see a God who took on human form and allowed sinners to nail him to a tree and even as he hung there he prayed "Father forgive them". I consider the theology of dominionism to be extremely toxic, to the point I believe it may be building the empire of antichrist rather than the kingdom of God.

Jesus told us to go and preach the gospel. He also said "if you love me, obey my commandments". So we can do God's will on earth and lead by example rather than with the force of law. We can show people that living a Christ-like life is perfectly possible even if it isn't legally mandated. If we practice what we preach even when it costs us something, even when the law of the land doesn't say we have to live by a particular standard, and even when people around us are legally profiting from sinful behaviors, that will speak at least as loudly as whatever words we might happen to use.

I agree.Some people try to have the Kingdom without the King.But that comes from self righteous attitudes that says we are going to present the Kingdom to the King. I heard someone say that the Lord can't come back until we win the Kingdom. I thought...Poppycock! How ridiculous! But like you said, we have to willingly submit to our King, willingly allow His will to be done. But it comes with allowing our minds to be renewed. I have heard some wild things from people who get half of the truth, and they get people all twisted up. And it is almost impossible to get them straightened out.

Jesus preached Repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand. IOW The King is here. Turn to the King. Lay down that sinful way of thinking. Even today people do not know what that means.

 

[Alithis]

I believe we should pray for it to come as it is already here within us if we are in Christ and Christ is in us and at the same time pray for those who do not show Christ, our leaders for if we are to have the kingdom of heaven on earth then we need that kingdom to spring forth and take reign

the question is .. seeing tht the kingdom of God is within us (who have set asoide sin and walk in oibedience to the Gospel and abide in the lord and he in us ) do we then TAKE that kingdom into the lives of the world around us ior do we hide it in our homes while we play pc games watch our fav tv show (dfiled with all manner of wickedness _ while they perish in the kingdom of darkness ?

of course we acknowledge that for the most part no one has discipled us to do much else other then sit in church on a Sunday ..pray occasional and well, that's it ,, that's all the so called church has taught most believers to do . so they have been discipled to become those who are discipling them .. shame on those discipling them .

-here is quite a good example of what "taking the kingdom to the lost looks like " Jesus said .. GO out .. preach the Gospel heal the sick etc .. this is a call on EVERY desciple ,none are exempt .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39m0vFArKu8

 

[Brighten04]

the question is .. seeing tht the kingdom of God is within us (who have set asoide sin and walk in oibedience to the Gospel and abide in the lord and he in us ) do we then TAKE that kingdom into the lives of the world around us ior do we hide it in our homes while we play pc games watch our fav tv show (dfiled with all manner of wickedness _ while they perish in the kingdom of darkness ?

of course we acknowledge that for the most part no one has discipled us to do much else other then sit in church on a Sunday ..pray occasional and well, that's it ,, that's all the so called church has taught most believers to do . so they have been discipled to become those who are discipling them .. shame on those discipling them .

-here is quite a good example of what "taking the kingdom to the lost looks like " Jesus said .. GO out .. preach the Gospel heal the sick etc .. this is a call on EVERY desciple ,none are exempt .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39m0vFArKu8

Yes that too. Praise God. But remember it is Satan that accuses the bretheren.

 

[Alithis]

Yes that too. Praise God. But remember it is Satan that accuses the bretheren.

??? not sure what you mean .. he accuses "falsly " .. ..

then Holy Spirit convicts of sin truthfully, to goad repentance that opens the way for forgiveness to flow .
in truth one can only be condemned by what one is guilty of .

 

[Brighten04]

??? not sure what you mean .. he accuses "falsly " .. ..

then Holy Spirit convicts of sin truthfully, to goad repentance that opens the way for forgiveness to flow .
in truth one can only be condemned by what one is guilty of .

Yes he accuses falsely. Don't be so sin conscience that you cannot be free of the sin you are preaching against. Jesus has forgiven us our sin. It is done, finished, kaput. Repent means renew your mind, which is what we are talking about here in this thread. The Kingdom is within us. We didn't earn it by not sinning lest we could boast. Do you need some milk?
Hebrews 5:11 We have much to say about this, but it is hard to make it clear to you because you no longer try to understand. 12 In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! 13 Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. (NIV)
Hebrews6:1Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death,and of faith in God, 2 instruction about cleansing rites, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 And God permitting, we will do so.(NIV)
The Holy Ghost would not live in us if we willfully sin. Now we all need to grow in grace. Like the man in the video, we need to be about our Father's business of bringing the culture of the Kingdom of God to our surroundings.

This thread is about how we can get the Kingdom out of us and into our surroundings.We are brothers and sisters in Christ here. We are salt and we are light. Jesus said so.

 

[Alithis]

Yes he accuses falsely. Don't be so sin conscience that you cannot be free of the sin you are preaching against. Jesus has forgiven us our sin. It is done, finished, kaput. Repent means renew your mind, which is what we are talking about here in this thread. The Kingdom is within us. We didn't earn it by not sinning lest we could boast. Do you need some milk?
Hebrews 5:11 We have much to say about this, but it is hard to make it clear to you because you no longer try to understand. 12 In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! 13 Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. (NIV)
Hebrews6:1Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death,and of faith in God, 2 instruction about cleansing rites, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 And God permitting, we will do so.(NIV)
The Holy Ghost would not live in us if we willfully sin. Now we all need to grow in grace. Like the man in the video, we need to be about our Father's business of bringing the culture of the Kingdom of God to our surroundings.

This thread is about how we can get the Kingdom out of us and into our surroundings.We are brothers and sisters in Christ here. We are salt and we are light. Jesus said so.

but this simply translates as .. do not talk about our sin as it makes us uncomfortable and goads our conscience .
the very reason that i speak of it with such freedom and directness is that In christ JEsus I am already freed of it and it is no longer a master over me .this is the very thing the lord Jesus shed his blood on the cross to accomplish . if he is not able to preform that which he has promised to do ,that would be an eternal tragedy . and to ever suggest it is to unwittingly insinuate that God has lied . For he came to set us free from the POWER of sin .. So thus ,being set free what is it that can possibly compel us to continue doing it ? nothing more then our love for it . we simply love that particular sin more then we love the lord jesus and so we obey its call rather then the call of the Holy Spirit . Say it is not so at the peril of denying what Christ has done for us on the cross ..for having become sin he overcame .. and if he over came then all who abide in him abide in an overcoming state. and thus do no longer "sin" . .. but those that continue still to sin simply prove that they do not yet know him nor have seen him .

Do not be deceived .if he that came to set us free from sin is faithful ..the whom he has set free is indeed FREE .thus , if the one set free then continues in it ,they do so through renewed rebellion . -repent . turn away and cease to follow that old master and follow the Lord JESUS and he will lead you out of sins mire and into green pastures on sure ground . I know this ,for he did so in my life . and that is why i can speak with such directness on the topic of sin and repentance ..the word of the lord IS faithful and true .. do not annul it by carnal reasoned excuse ... if we continue in sin.. the we are not living IN the kingdom of God which is within us ..but in rebellion to it . our sin is forgiven.. and we are free, that we may GO AND SIN NO MORE ... if we return and continue in sin then we nullify forgiveness .

 

[Brighten04]

but this simply translates as .. do not talk about our sin as it makes us uncomfortable and goads our conscience .
the very reason that i speak of it with such freedom and directness is that In christ JEsus I am already freed of it and it is no longer a master over me .this is the very thing the lord Jesus shed his blood on the cross to accomplish . if he is not able to preform that which he has promised to do ,that would be an eternal tragedy . and to ever suggest it is to unwittingly insinuate that God has lied . For he came to set us free from the POWER of sin .. So thus ,being set free what is it that can possibly compel us to continue doing it ? nothing more then our love for it . we simply love that particular sin more then we love the lord jesus and so we obey its call rather then the call of the Holy Spirit . Say it is not so at the peril of denying what Christ has done for us on the cross ..for having become sin he overcame .. and if he over came then all who abide in him abide in an overcoming state. and thus do no longer "sin" . .. but those that continue still to sin simply prove that they do not yet know him nor have seen him .

Do not be deceived .if he that came to set us free from sin is faithful ..the whom he has set free is indeed FREE .thus , if the one set free then continues in it ,they do so through renewed rebellion . -repent . turn away and cease to follow that old master and follow the Lord JESUS and he will lead you out of sins mire and into green pastures on sure ground . I know this ,for he did so in my life . and that is why i can speak with such directness on the topic of sin and repentance ..the word of the lord IS faithful and true .. do not annul it by carnal reasoned excuse .

Brother you don't have to keep singing it to us your born again brothers and sisters. We get it. We got it. We have moved on from milk. We art trying for solid food now. We are as free as you are. It has been my experience that when a brother or sister keeps pointing at the perceived sin in others, they do so to take attention away from their own besetting sin.

 

[Alithis]

Brother you don't have to keep singing it to us your born again brothers and sisters. We get it. We got it. We have moved on from milk. We art trying for solid food now. We are as free as you are. It has been my experience that when a brother or sister keeps pointing at the perceived sin in others, they do so to take attention away from their own besetting sin.

your experience is limited i guess .
you say the words "thy kingdom come ".. ,is bothering you .. it should .., for if the kingdom of god is within you ..you should then bring it to the people . that is to go out preach the gospel heal the sick cast out demons ,make disciples baptising them in the name of the lord Jesus ..
but those many perceive believers you speak of .. in every western church more then 90% of those who sit there on a sunday morning .. are not going and doing any such thing . they do not even mention the name of jesus to a person outside the congregational building and few in it . ..we all know this is the truth (though some deny it ) - so yes .. i will sing on about it .
for "thy kingdom come " follows hallowed be thy name " and most sundays a huge proportion goes home and drags the presence of his name through their Godless favourite sunday TV show and show no reverence for him in doing so .. and then wonder why his kingdoms power is not made evident in their lives ?
we cannot speak of his kingdom coming without speaking of holiness reverence sanctification and consecration.
the lord jesu said .. "when you GO .. say to them "the kingdom of god has come near " ,, but how can we say that.. when we are at home watching TV ? we cannot .

do we really desire the KINGDOM (the governmental rule and displayed power of god ) to come to those around us ? then we must begin living within its wondrous confines of everlasting holiness ourselves first .
this is what the lord lead me into ... repentance then consecration then ever increasing holiness.. the result : people getting saved , laying hands of people to receive the holy Ghost , laying hands on the sick and seeing them healed ... because the kingdom of God does come, and it comes in holiness and purity and power ..it does not come mingles with worldliness and tainted in sin.
when the kingdom of god comes near a persons life ... the lame walk the blind see and the captive is set free and the Gospel is preached ..

 

[tango]

I agree.Some people try to have the Kingdom without the King.But that comes from self righteous attitudes that says we are going to present the Kingdom to the King. I heard someone say that the Lord can't come back until we win the Kingdom. I thought...Poppycock! How ridiculous! But like you said, we have to willingly submit to our King, willingly allow His will to be done. But it comes with allowing our minds to be renewed. I have heard some wild things from people who get half of the truth, and they get people all twisted up. And it is almost impossible to get them straightened out.

Jesus preached Repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand. IOW The King is here. Turn to the King. Lay down that sinful way of thinking. Even today people do not know what that means.

The people who preach that Jesus can't come back until we build a kingdom to hand over to him are usually much the same as the dominionists. Their teaching is so full of holes it's remarkable that anyone buys it, although my experience so far is that once someone has bought into it they will resist all attempts to even turn to the Scriptures to determine whether or not it's true. I've had a church minister tell me he wasn't going to get into discussing Scripture with me, when I asked him how he reconciled some of those teachings with Scripture. How about that, a minister of the gospel refusing to discuss Scripture, refusing to listen to a "come, let us reason together" request.

When I look at the theologies of dominion, of the so-called "seven mountains mandate" and related theologies and compare it to the Revelation I really struggle to see any explanation other than it building the kingdom of the devil while pretending to build the kingdom of Christ. And then the warning that "not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord' shall enter the Kingdom" starts ringing in my ears.

If we, those who claim the name of Christ, don't willingly submit to the one we claim as our King then why do we think anyone else will willingly submit even if the force of the law requires them to do so?

 

[Brighten04]

The people who preach that Jesus can't come back until we build a kingdom to hand over to him are usually much the same as the dominionists. Their teaching is so full of holes it's remarkable that anyone buys it, although my experience so far is that once someone has bought into it they will resist all attempts to even turn to the Scriptures to determine whether or not it's true. I've had a church minister tell me he wasn't going to get into discussing Scripture with me, when I asked him how he reconciled some of those teachings with Scripture. How about that, a minister of the gospel refusing to discuss Scripture, refusing to listen to a "come, let us reason together" request.

When I look at the theologies of dominion, of the so-called "seven mountains mandate" and related theologies and compare it to the Revelation I really struggle to see any explanation other than it building the kingdom of the devil while pretending to build the kingdom of Christ. And then the warning that "not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord' shall enter the Kingdom" starts ringing in my ears.

If we, those who claim the name of Christ, don't willingly submit to the one we claim as our King then why do we think anyone else will willingly submit even if the force of the law requires them to do so?

I am not familiar with dominionist. Is this a new movement? With preachers, they usually don't like to be questioned. What is the seven mountains mandate. Forgive please. I attend a Baptist church and am not familiar with a lot of new stuff. I may have heard some of it but not delved too deep into it.

 

[tango]

I am not familiar with dominionist. Is this a new movement? With preachers, they usually don't like to be questioned. What is the seven mountains mandate. Forgive please. I attend a Baptist church and am not familiar with a lot of new stuff. I may have heard some of it but not delved too deep into it.

A lot of this stuff ties in with the movement known as the New Apostolic Reformation which, as far as I can make out, produces a tidal wave of theology that ranges from bad to toxic.

The seven mountains mandate originated in what was described as a prophetic word (and I forget who received it, but it runs in my mind they were associated with YWAM). The idea of the mandate is that Christians are supposed to dominate (some would say take control over, or other similar words) seven mountains of our culture. I forget what they all are but they are things like Family, Government, Education, Business, Entertainment etc. It's been a while since I looked really closely at it but from what I recall the idea is that Christians would take control over the government to make sure the government was on-side. Education would be controlled by Christians to make sure that the curriculum was suitably Christian in nature, and so on. Some go a little further and seek apostolic leaders (who frequently seem to be considered above questioning) to take charge. Then once the world is effectively under the control of this church Jesus can return and the church can hand it over to Jesus.

The biggest problem I see with it is that Revelation says that in the end times the beast will dominate the earth and basically everything will go from bad to worse until Jesus returns and takes it all back. So if the beast will dominate the earth, and the seven mountains brigade believe they will dominate the earth, the parallel doesn't seem like a good one. I'd be interested to know if anyone can explain how/whether dominionism is compatible with Scripture, because the people I asked about it hummed and erred and said they'd get back to me but never did. Apparently they were too busy to consider whether or not they were building the kingdom of the antichrist.

 

[tango]

By the way, don't feel inferior if you haven't heard of it. Before I moved away from the area I spent a lot of time discussing some of this stuff with the pastor at the church I attended (a guy I had, and still have, huge respect for). A lot of it was stuff he hadn't come across before.

 

[Brighten04]

A lot of this stuff ties in with the movement known as the New Apostolic Reformation which, as far as I can make out, produces a tidal wave of theology that ranges from bad to toxic.

The seven mountains mandate originated in what was described as a prophetic word (and I forget who received it, but it runs in my mind they were associated with YWAM). The idea of the mandate is that Christians are supposed to dominate (some would say take control over, or other similar words) seven mountains of our culture. I forget what they all are but they are things like Family, Government, Education, Business, Entertainment etc. It's been a while since I looked really closely at it but from what I recall the idea is that Christians would take control over the government to make sure the government was on-side. Education would be controlled by Christians to make sure that the curriculum was suitably Christian in nature, and so on. Some go a little further and seek apostolic leaders (who frequently seem to be considered above questioning) to take charge. Then once the world is effectively under the control of this church Jesus can return and the church can hand it over to Jesus.

The biggest problem I see with it is that Revelation says that in the end times the beast will dominate the earth and basically everything will go from bad to worse until Jesus returns and takes it all back. So if the beast will dominate the earth, and the seven mountains brigade believe they will dominate the earth, the parallel doesn't seem like a good one. I'd be interested to know if anyone can explain how/whether dominionism is compatible with Scripture, because the people I asked about it hummed and erred and said they'd get back to me but never did. Apparently they were too busy to consider whether or not they were building the kingdom of the antichrist.

Oh wow! I live in a small city, and we don't have a lot of these new teachings circulating here.We have Baptists and Methodist in the city. Outside city limits we have one Kingdom Hall and one LDS church. I learn about some of this stuff from friends like you on the net. The scripture tells us that the world hates us and that in the world we will have tribulation, but to be of good cheer for Lord Jesus has overcome the world. IMO that means we cannot expect any cooperation from the world.Jesus did not take over the Roman Empire when He walked the Earth, and I don't recall Him instructing His disciples to do so either. He did tell them to go and teach all nations the things that He taught baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.He said for us to lay hands on the sick and they shall recover. I don't recall where he said dominate anybody. He said we are salt and light. Thank you for cluing me in so I can be on the lookout for these vain philosophies of men.

 

[psalms 91]

Dominition is yet another lie if you look at end times scripture