Plan B?

Lees

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2022
Messages
2,182
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Some more to think on concerning 'outer darkness'.

The time period I have been discussing is the Return of Jesus Christ and His setting up the Kingdom of Heaven upon earth. (Rev. 11:15) (Matt. 24:29-30) (Matt. 25:31-32) And this Kingdom will last, I believe, 1,000 years. (Rev. 20:1-7) Hence the term 'millennium'.

And we know that Jesus, the Messiah, will reign in Jerusalem, in Israel, over the world at that time. (Ps. 2:1-8) "...Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion....Thou art my Son...." (2:6-7) See also (Matt. 19:28) And Jesus of course is the "Light of the world". Meaning the Source of that Light will radiate from Jerusalem.

There will also be a new Temple built for that Kingdom reign. It's dimensions and function are found in (Ezekiel 40-48) And there the glory of God, which left the Temple in (Eze. 9:3) (10:4) (10:18) (11:23), will return. (Eze. 43:1-5) Thus you have Jesus as the Light of the world and the glory of God radiating from the Temple.

Lees
 
Last edited:

Lees

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2022
Messages
2,182
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
In (Eze. 44) there are some interesting things to note concerning the priests of this future millennial temple. Remember, this is God's Kingdom on earth. The Kingdom of Heaven.

(Eze. 44:10) "And the Levites that are gone away far from me, when Israel went astray, which went astray away from me after their idols; they shall even bear their iniquity."

This begs the question, what Levites of which time. When the Kingdom first divided under Solomon? When Israel sinned and was carried away by the Assyrians? When Judah sinned and was carried away by the Babylonians? And all of these were of different time periods.

And in (Eze. 44:12) God reiterates, "Because they ministered unto them before their idols, and caused the house of Israel to fall into iniquity; therefore have I lifted up mine hand against them, saith the Lord GOD, and they shall bear their iniquity."

Now, it would be easy to say, that just means these all rejected God and will go to hell or the Lake of Fire, no matter which generation of Levitical priests we are talking about.

Except, in (Eze. 44:11,13-14) we are told of these same Levitical priests, that they will still be given a place of service in the Millennial Temple, yet they would never be allowed to come near to the LORD in the Holy Place to do service to God. They will be keepers of the house only.(14)

And instead, those Levitical priests who were sons of Zadok and faithful to God, would minister to the LORD and stand before Him and in His presense. (Eze. 44:15-31) "...They shall enter into my sanctuary, and they shall come near to my table, to minister unto me, and they shall keep my charge." (16)

The first point I make here is that this is in the Kingdom. There is distinction made among the Levitical priests. Those who were faithful and those who were unfaithful. Both had ministries, yet one group were near to the LORD. The other could never come near to the LORD.

And, my opinion, would not the 'sons of Zadok' be in the presense of a greater Light of God? It is certainly a truth 'spiritually', but wouldn't it also be a truth physically and geographically? Didn't Moses face shine when he was in that same presense? (Ex. 34:29-30)

Lees
 

Lees

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2022
Messages
2,182
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Based on post #(62), would there be a diminishing of light as one moved from the Holy of Holies, to the Holy place, to the outer courts, to outside of the Temple, to outside of Jerusalem, to outside of Israel? To somewhere on the earth that would be considered 'outer darkness'?'Outer darkness' is a term only found in (Matthew) which is the gospel of the Kingdom. I believe during the whole period of the Millennium Christ is subduing the fallen governments of man that Satan has infeceted.

Important to remember that during the Kingdom reign by Christ on earth, man is still a sinner. Satan has been bound in the bottomless pit for a thousand years. (Rev. 20:2) But man can and will sin and rebel. Christ will rule politically and religiously with a rod of iron during that time. (Rev. 2:7) (12:5) It will be a rule of righteousness but Christ will put down any rebellion and wickedness forcefully. (1 Cor. 15:25-28) (Ps. 2:7-10)

So, it is not hard for me to see how 'outer darkness' can speak to places in the Kingdom that are far from the light of God in Jerusalem. (Ps. 74:20)

Lees
 

Lees

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2022
Messages
2,182
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
My main object in this thread was to show that the Church is not a 'Plan B' of God's work with man in salvation. It is in fact 'Plan A'. The Church was chosen from before the foundations of the world. (Eph. 1:4) The Kingdom of God on earth was prepared from the foundation of the world. (Matt. 25:34)

In other words, Gods plans for the Church as a Bride for the Son as depicted in (Matt. 22:2) was first and foremost in the mind of God, concerning His work of salvation. Though in appearance in the Scripture it appears as a by-product, as something God did because Israel rejected His Son, forcing Him to an alternate plan. But that is only because this work of God was hidden from Israel and the world until the time came for it's implementation. (Eph. 3:3-9)

And this great work we see finished at the very end of the book of (Revelation) in a glorious manner. The Bride of the Son presented. (Rev. 21:9). With the Spirit and the Bride speaking in unison for any to come and take of the water of life freely. (Rev. 22:17)

Thus the 'guests' at the wedding feast in (Matt. 22) for the Son would be from those that had gone before the Bride was created, which was at Pentecost, or after the Church is removed from the earth which is at the Rapture. And no doubt the guests would be saved and be the people of God, but they would not be the Church, the Bride.

This means that the man who tried to enter as a 'guest', whomever he is, was never part of the Church as he was a supposed 'guest'. Which means, however one wants to interpret the man being cast into 'outer darkness', it has nothing to do with we who are the Church. Which means it's not a picture of a Christian losing his salvation, or being unsure until that day of his salvation.

So, it's not hard to see the importance of understanding the timing of things God has revealed in His Word. How many still preach these verses, (Matt. 22:11-14), to use against the Church? To cast doubt on their salvation? Thus, the understanding of 'Eschatology' is important in understanding the salvation of God in Scripture.

Lees
 
Last edited:

SetFree

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 7, 2022
Messages
347
Location
USA
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Non-Denominational
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
In my recent study of Bible prophecy and some parables in the book of (Matthew) a certain truth , I believe, came to me that I hadn't recognized before, though the Scriptures that reveal that truth I have used many times to support various other doctrines.

This revolves around the main question, often asked, what is the main goal of God in His creation and plan of salvation" For, in it's appearance, it is always as though God is frustrated at times with Satan's victories and having to opt for a plan B. For example, Adam and Eve in the Garden who failed and cast all of humanity into sin. Or, the Flood of Noah whereby God would start over again. Or, God creating the nation Israel, who equally failed and eventually killed the Son of God, whereby God created the Church.

But, God is God. And He knows all. There are no surprises with God. He never reacts, He acts. But God reveals Himself and His work to man in a way man can understand. And in so doing presents Himself as with human reactions. For example, we are told God is not like a man in that He does not repent. (Num. 23:19) But then He displayed repentance. (EX. 32: 14) Doing this to teach us the importance of advocacy and prayer. (Ex. 32:11-14) It is this way throughout the Scripture, moving towards the goal of God in creation. (Acts 15:18) "Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world."

Of course it is true that when the hand of God moves to do something, He is never doing just one thing. By our observance it may be just be one act, but that one act will affect what He is doing with the angels, or spirit world, or the salvation of individuals or of Israel or the Gentiles or the Church.

I haven't yet got to what I wanted to say but I can see the post would be too long to do so. But these questions can be considered. In all that God does, is there anything more important to Him than another? Or, applied to the love of God, does God love some of His children more than others? Emphasis on 'His children'. Not those who are not. For example, Did God love Moses more than Lot?


Lees

Don't get angry at what I'm going to say, but the truth of the matter is that your words reveal assumptions from the doctrines of men of what is actually revealed in God's written Word. Lord Jesus warned us about the 'leaven' from men's doctrines, remember? The leaven acts as 'yeast', so that applied to God's Word, it becomes easy to get trapped into men's traditions instead staying with the pure Word of God.

1. God doesn't do Plan B's. For this present world, He ordains, creates, and protects His elect while allowing all others their free will to either do good or do evil. Even Satan has limitations on him by God's Own Hand, so Satan is merely serving as a punishing rod for this present world upon the rebellious (see Isaiah 10). And God will USE Satan to punish His Own when they get out of line too. God reveals this issue plainly in His Word (especially in the Old Testament), that He is always in control.

2. That Adam and Eve would sin and fall was already known by God when He first formed the man Adam in the flesh. Why do so many brethren forget that Adam and Eve were not the first to sin? Satan, whom God originally created 'perfect in thy ways', rebelled in the old world prior to God creating Adam. Satan was first to commit SIN. That is WHY... God brought this 2nd world earth age of man in the flesh, so as to send His Son Jesus Christ to die on the cross in order to defeat Satan and death for us. So if Adam and Eve had NOT sinned, God's Salvation Plan through His Son Jesus Christ could never have happened. All Christians should understand this, and quit just assuming God's Word teaches what men's leaven traditions say.

3. The flood of Noah had to happen because of the angels ("sons of God") leaving their abode, coming down to the earth and taking wives of the flesh daughters of the man Adam. And the result of their marriages with flesh woman were the hybrid giant race. It had to be destroyed, because God did not ordain it. So GOD didn't cause that mating, He took control as a result of it to wipe it out. And He showed in Genesis 6 that Noah was 'perfect in his generations', meaning Noah and his had not mixed with that hybrid seed.

4. The nation of Israel did NOT kill Lord Jesus. That is a vain remark pushed by the founders of Dispensationalism, as they don't study their Old Testament history, and thus believe the lie that all Israelites are JEWS. They are ignorant about the 'crept in unawares' of Jude, and the "tares" of Matthew 13. Even the scribes of old Israel were not of bloodline Israel, but were of the people from the lands of Canaan called KENITES (see 1 Chronicles 2:55). They crept in early among the tribe of Judah. So not all the Jews were guilty of Christ's crucifixion, because the main ones behind were of the devil's own servants. Even Judas Iscariot Lord Jesus said was "a devil", and right there among His 12 Apostles was a servant of the devil. So the Bible student ought to immediately realize something deeper going on by that.

Starting in Genesis, God's Word points out about the 'seed of the serpent', i.e., Satan's servants here on earth ordained to serve Satan and not God. This is what Jude reveals about those crept in unawares. And it was early on in Israel's history when they begin creeping in among the children of Israel and causing idol worship and evil doings. Anyone... who actually studied their Old Testament histories would of course 'know' this matter. But alas, there's a lot of lazy brethren out there that only stay in The New Testament Books, and believing men's baloney traditions like the ignorant idea that all the Old Testament Books are dead history.

In Jeremiah 24, God showed Jeremiah (and us) about a basket of 'evil' figs, pointing to a certain people He promised He would bring with Judah back to the holy lands and not remove them again. That was fulfilled in 1948 when Israel became a nation again. It will be that 'evil' basket of figs, the crept in unawares, that will mislead and trick today's orthodox Jews in Jerusalem to bow in worship to the false-Messiah that is to come first per Bible prophecy.

A thorough study in the Old Testament Books reveals that God created the nation of Israel in order to PROMOTE The Gospel of Jesus Christ. And that is exactly what Christ's 12 Apostles, who were JEWS, did. Not only them though, but like Jesus also said, that He was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the "house of Israel", meaning the ten scattered tribes of Israel that were not even in... the holy lands at Lord Jesus' 1st coming and crucifixion! After Lord Jesus was rejected in Jerusalem, The Gospel then went to those ten lost tribes of Israel scattered among the Gentiles, and both together became the western Christian nations. And those lost ten tribes of Israel never stopped being of the seed of Israel, even though most of them today do not know about their ancestral heritages from the old ten tribes of Israel. This means Christ's Church is made up of a huge portion of Israelite descendants out of all 12 tribes, and not just Jews of 3 tribes (Judah, Benjamin, Levi).

God's Promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob involved His Blessings and included the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Apostle Paul revealed this in Romans 4 and Galatians 3 regard the PROMISE BY FAITH which was first given through Abraham. Paul declared Abraham's FAITH as the same FAITH on Jesus Christ, The Gospel, that we as Christians have believed.
 
Last edited:

Lees

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2022
Messages
2,182
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Don't get angry at what I'm going to say, but the truth of the matter is that your words reveal assumptions from the doctrines of men of what is actually revealed in God's written Word. Lord Jesus warned us about the 'leaven' from men's doctrines, remember? The leaven acts as 'yeast', so that applied to God's Word, it becomes easy to get trapped into men's traditions instead staying with the pure Word of God.

1. God doesn't do Plan B's. For this present world, He ordains, creates, and protects His elect while allowing all others their free will to either do good or do evil. Even Satan has limitations on him by God's Own Hand, so Satan is merely serving as a punishing rod for this present world upon the rebellious (see Isaiah 10). And God will USE Satan to punish His Own when they get out of line too. God reveals this issue plainly in His Word (especially in the Old Testament), that He is always in control.

2. That Adam and Eve would sin and fall was already known by God when He first formed the man Adam in the flesh. Why do so many brethren forget that Adam and Eve were not the first to sin? Satan, whom God originally created 'perfect in thy ways', rebelled in the old world prior to God creating Adam. Satan was first to commit SIN. That is WHY... God brought this 2nd world earth age of man in the flesh, so as to send His Son Jesus Christ to die on the cross in order to defeat Satan and death for us. So if Adam and Eve had NOT sinned, God's Salvation Plan through His Son Jesus Christ could never have happened. All Christians should understand this, and quit just assuming God's Word teaches what men's leaven traditions say.

3. The flood of Noah had to happen because of the angels ("sons of God") leaving their abode, coming down to the earth and taking wives of the flesh daughters of the man Adam. And the result of their marriages with flesh woman were the hybrid giant race. It had to be destroyed, because God did not ordain it. So GOD didn't cause that mating, He took control as a result of it to wipe it out. And He showed in Genesis 6 that Noah was 'perfect in his generations', meaning Noah and his had not mixed with that hybrid seed.

4. The nation of Israel did NOT kill Lord Jesus. That is a vain remark pushed by the founders of Dispensationalism, as they don't study their Old Testament history, and thus believe the lie that all Israelites are JEWS. They are ignorant about the 'crept in unawares' of Jude, and the "tares" of Matthew 13. Even the scribes of old Israel were not of bloodline Israel, but were of the people from the lands of Canaan called KENITES (see 1 Chronicles 2:55). They crept in early among the tribe of Judah. So not all the Jews were guilty of Christ's crucifixion, because the main ones behind were of the devil's own servants. Even Judas Iscariot Lord Jesus said was "a devil", and right there among His 12 Apostles was a servant of the devil. So the Bible student ought to immediately realize something deeper going on by that.

Starting in Genesis, God's Word points out about the 'seed of the serpent', i.e., Satan's servants here on earth ordained to serve Satan and not God. This is what Jude reveals about those crept in unawares. And it was early on in Israel's history when they begin creeping in among the children of Israel and causing idol worship and evil doings. Anyone... who actually studied their Old Testament histories would of course 'know' this matter. But alas, there's a lot of lazy brethren out there that only stay in The New Testament Books, and believing men's baloney traditions like the ignorant idea that all the Old Testament Books are dead history.

In Jeremiah 24, God showed Jeremiah (and us) about a basket of 'evil' figs, pointing to a certain people He promised He would bring with Judah back to the holy lands and not remove them again. That was fulfilled in 1948 when Israel became a nation again. It will be that 'evil' basket of figs, the crept in unawares, that will mislead and trick today's orthodox Jews in Jerusalem to bow in worship to the false-Messiah that is to come first per Bible prophecy.

A thorough study in the Old Testament Books reveals that God created the nation of Israel in order to PROMOTE The Gospel of Jesus Christ. And that is exactly what Christ's 12 Apostles, who were JEWS, did. Not only them though, but like Jesus also said, that He was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the "house of Israel", meaning the ten scattered tribes of Israel that were not even in... the holy lands at Lord Jesus' 1st coming and crucifixion! After Lord Jesus was rejected in Jerusalem, The Gospel then went to those ten lost tribes of Israel scattered among the Gentiles, and both together became the western Christian nations. And those lost ten tribes of Israel never stopped being of the seed of Israel, even though most of them today do not know about their ancestral heritages from the old ten tribes of Israel. This means Christ's Church is made up of a huge portion of Israelite descendants out of all 12 tribes, and not just Jews of 3 tribes (Judah, Benjamin, Levi).

God's Promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob involved His Blessings and included the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Apostle Paul revealed this in Romans 4 and Galatians 3 regard the PROMISE BY FAITH which was first given through Abraham. Paul declared Abraham's FAITH as the same FAITH on Jesus Christ, The Gospel, that we as Christians have believed.

Why should I be angry? You didn't address anything I said. Certainly didn't refute anything I said.

Show me where I am wrong.

Lees
 
Top Bottom