Resurrection Purpose

[Lees]

What was the purpose of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ? After all, the payment for sin was death. Not death and resurrection.

Did it have a purpose other than it was just impossible for Jesus not to rise. (Acts 2:24)

Lees

 

[Josiah]

@Lees

To make a long story longer (LOL)....

I'm guessing you're working with the "Vicarious Atonement" theory of the atonement. And YUP one of the problems with that is it really has no use for the Resurrection. Yet Scripture seems to suggest that Easter is THE most important thing; the resurrection THE most important part of Jesus' work. That theory works great to explain the incarnation/perfect life and the Cross/death of Jesus but leaves Easter as little more than "well, it's done - see you later."

You'll find much more here in the Christus Victor view (although that too has it's problems). Easter here means VICTORY, the defeat over sin, death and the power of Satan. It means that His victory is ours.... His life is ours... as He rose over sin and death, in Him so do we.

Here's how it seems to me. Each of the atonement theories is biblical, each has a lot going for it, although each one - individually - has problems and ultimately fails (as your Vicarious Atonement view does here). But TOGETHER, they are helpful. And that's what Christians tend to do... they use them together - going to the one that best explains a single point. I suspect you'll find a lot here using Vicarious for His life and death, the Christus Victor one for Easter (that's common in modern Protestantism). And I'm pretty okay with that. BUT....

We know this: Jesus IS the Savior. He does it ALL. 100%. We contribute abolutely nothing (we are simply blessed by HIS work applied to us). What work? Well, several things: His incarnation and perfect/moral life. His suffering and death on the Cross. And His resurrection from the dead. All of that. Together. All of it essential, absolutely necessary - we would be lost without it. Now, WHY does that save us? Why is each part necessary? Exactly WHY? Well.... there we simply don't have a full answer. THAT Jesus saves - yup, we know that. THAT this involves those things, yesuree. But WHY each of those things - that's not really clear. The various Atonement Theories attempt to explain that - but none (in and of itself) really does.

@Lees I think it important to remember that the Bible exists to Show us Salvation (Gospel) and Show us how to Live (Law). And it does a good job of that! It's not a philosophy book and it's not a science book (although it may touch on both to do the above). And it's certainly not a Q&A book. It's purpose is not to answer all our questions (even good ones). God tells us what we need to know - not necessarily what we want to know. He tells us what we need to know to accomplish it's purpose. The result is sometimes we just don't know something. We are left with MYSTERY. The Bible tells us to be "stewards of the MYSTERIES of God." NOT "appoint yourself to be God's answer man for every question you may have."


This website is typical but while I agree with her on every point, it doesn't really answer the question of why it was NECESSARY for our salvation; she kinda skirts around that: 7 Reasons Why Easter Is All Important To Christians


Blessings



.

 

[Lees]

@Lees

To make a long story longer (LOL)....

I'm guessing you're working with the "Vicarious Atonement" theory of the atonement. And YUP one of the problems with that is it really has no use for the Resurrection. Yet Scripture seems to suggest that Easter is THE most important thing; the resurrection THE most important part of Jesus' work. That theory works great to explain the incarnation/perfect life and the Cross/death of Jesus but leaves Easter as little more than "well, it's done - see you later."

You'll find much more here in the Christus Victor view (although that too has it's problems). Easter here means VICTORY, the defeat over sin, death and the power of Satan. It means that His victory is ours.... His life is ours... as He rose over sin and death, in Him so do we.

Here's how it seems to me. Each of the atonement theories is biblical, each has a lot going for it, although each one - individually - has problems and ultimately fails (as your Vicarious Atonement view does here). But TOGETHER, they are helpful. And that's what Christians tend to do... they use them together - going to the one that best explains a single point. I suspect you'll find a lot here using Vicarious for His life and death, the Christus Victor one for Easter (that's common in modern Protestantism). And I'm pretty okay with that. BUT....

We know this: Jesus IS the Savior. He does it ALL. 100%. We contribute abolutely nothing (we are simply blessed by HIS work applied to us). What work? Well, several things: His incarnation and perfect/moral life. His suffering and death on the Cross. And His resurrection from the dead. All of that. Together. All of it essential, absolutely necessary - we would be lost without it. Now, WHY does that save us? Why is each part necessary? Exactly WHY? Well.... there we simply don't have a full answer. THAT Jesus saves - yup, we know that. THAT this involves those things, yesuree. But WHY each of those things - that's not really clear. The various Atonement Theories attempt to explain that - but none (in and of itself) really does.

@Lees I think it important to remember that the Bible exists to Show us Salvation (Gospel) and Show us how to Live (Law). And it does a good job of that! It's not a philosophy book and it's not a science book (although it may touch on both to do the above). And it's certainly not a Q&A book. It's purpose is not to answer all our questions (even good ones). God tells us what we need to know - not necessarily what we want to know. He tells us what we need to know to accomplish it's purpose. The result is sometimes we just don't know something. We are left with MYSTERY. The Bible tells us to be "stewards of the MYSTERIES of God." NOT "appoint yourself to be God's answer man for every question you may have."


This website is typical but while I agree with her on every point, it doesn't really answer the question of why it was NECESSARY for our salvation; she kinda skirts around that: 7 Reasons Why Easter Is All Important To Christians


Blessings



.

OK. Basically you said you don't know and we can't know the purpose of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Anyone else?

Again, since death is the requirement for the penalty of sin, why did Jesus need to rise from the dead? Or did He need to?

Lees

 

[Lamb]

OK. Basically you said you don't know and we can't know the purpose of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Anyone else?

Again, since death is the requirement for the penalty of sin, why did Jesus need to rise from the dead? Or did He need to?

Lees

Christ's resurrection shows victory over death.

1 Corinthians 15:17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.

So without the resurrection, we don't have the Gospel.

 

[Lees]

Christ's resurrection shows victory over death.

1 Corinthians 15:17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.

So without the resurrection, we don't have the Gospel.

Yes, I agree and believe (1 Cor. 15:17). But I always wonder, why would I still be in my sins if my sins were paid for with Christ's death?

In other words, under the Old Covenant, the animals sacrificed were not required to rise from the dead for sins to be atoned for. And Lazarus was in paradise with Abraham after he died as opposed to the rich man who was in torment. (Luke 16:19-31) All of these, both those in paradise or those in torment, had no physical body. They had only their spirits which must have been, and are, in shape to look just like they were before they died as they were recognized. After Christ's death, burial, and resurrection, and ascension, all those with Abraham in paradise ascended with Christ to Heaven. (Eph. 4:7-10) But they still had/have no physical resurrection body, which will come later.

I do understand the difference between atonement and remission of sins. But even in our sins being remitted, it appears it was accomplished by Christ's sacrifice or death. (Heb. 9:22) "....without shedding of blood is no remission."

(Heb. 9:28) "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many...."

(Heb. 10:10) "By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."

(Heb. 10:14) "For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."

(Heb. 10:18) "...where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin."

So, I believe (1 Cor. 15:17). If Christ be not raised we are yet in our sins. And I believe these verses in (Hebrews) I just gave.

Lees

 

[Lamb]

Yes, I agree and believe (1 Cor. 15:17). But I always wonder, why would I still be in my sins if my sins were paid for with Christ's death?

In other words, under the Old Covenant, the animals sacrificed were not required to rise from the dead for sins to be atoned for. And Lazarus was in paradise with Abraham after he died as opposed to the rich man who was in torment. (Luke 16:19-31) All of these, both those in paradise or those in torment, had no physical body. They had only their spirits which must have been, and are, in shape to look just like they were before they died as they were recognized. After Christ's death, burial, and resurrection, and ascension, all those with Abraham in paradise ascended with Christ to Heaven. (Eph. 4:7-10) But they still had/have no physical resurrection body, which will come later.

I do understand the difference between atonement and remission of sins. But even in our sins being remitted, it appears it was accomplished by Christ's sacrifice or death. (Heb. 9:22) "....without shedding of blood is no remission."

(Heb. 9:28) "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many...."

(Heb. 10:10) "By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."

(Heb. 10:14) "For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."

(Heb. 10:18) "...where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin."

So, I believe (1 Cor. 15:17). If Christ be not raised we are yet in our sins. And I believe these verses in (Hebrews) I just gave.

Lees

The animals sacrificed remained dead. Only the true unblemished lamb of God, the Son of God can atone for us once and for all and His resurrection shows us that no other sacrifice is ever needed, because He lives. The Resurrection of Christ is a connection to His death. Read the rest of 1 Corinthians and especially this verse:

For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 1 Corinthians 15:21

 

[Lees]

The animals sacrificed remained dead. Only the true unblemished lamb of God, the Son of God can atone for us once and for all and His resurrection shows us that no other sacrifice is ever needed, because He lives. The Resurrection of Christ is a connection to His death. Read the rest of 1 Corinthians and especially this verse:

For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 1 Corinthians 15:21

Ok. The animal sacrifices remained dead. But, no resurrection was required...correct?

That no other sacrifice is needed, meaning Jesus was the One and True Sacrifice, proves only that His Sacrifice was sufficient. It doesn't explain the purpose of the Resurrection.

(1 Cor. 15:21) is interesting. You tell me how it explains the purpose of the Resurrection when death only was required for the payment of sins.

Lees

 

[Lamb]

Ok. The animal sacrifices remained dead. But, no resurrection was required...correct?

That no other sacrifice is needed, meaning Jesus was the One and True Sacrifice, proves only that His Sacrifice was sufficient. It doesn't explain the purpose of the Resurrection.

(1 Cor. 15:21) is interesting. You tell me how it explains the purpose of the Resurrection when death only was required for the payment of sins.

Lees

Why would a dead Savior be important to you?

 

[Lees]

Why would a dead Savior be important to you?

A dead saviour is not important to me. The Resurrection of the Saviour is important to me.

If death is all that is required, what does the Resurrection accomplish?

Lees

 

[Lamb]

A dead saviour is not important to me. The Resurrection of the Saviour is important to me.

If death is all that is required, what does the Resurrection accomplish?

Lees

Josiah and I both have given you the answer already...that the sacrifice was accepted and that He is the Son of God.

 

[Lees]

Josiah and I both have given you the answer already...that the sacrifice was accepted and that He is the Son of God.

Of course that is true. I just believe there is more.

Consider what Peter said. (1 Peter 1:3) "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead."

(1 Peter 1:23) "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever."

We are born again by the resurrection. Which means no one under the Old Testament economy was ever born again. As Paul says in (Heb. 7:16-17) "Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment but after the power of an endless life....a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec."

Resurrection always pertains to the physical body. The resurrection of Christ, the power of His endless life, is given us Christians at the New Birth. Though our body is not yet resurrected, we have the power to force this body to heel and walk on resurrected ground with Christ.

Paul not only said to the Roman church that the Resurrection of Christ declared Him to be the Son of God. He said, (Rom. 1:4), "And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:".

It is interesting that Paul has nothing bad to say against the Roman Church. (Rom. 1:8) "First I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world." And Paul's message to them centers on the 'Resurrection' power of Jesus Christ.

Contrast that with Paul's message to the Corinthian church, where there was nothing but problems. (1 Cor. 2:2) "For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified."

Lees

 

[Lees]

When Jesus raised anyone from the dead, they were simply brought back to life to live out their previous existence. No change in them except that they were now alive. But with Jesus's resurrection, a dramatic change took place with Him.

Jesus being made a priest after the order of Melchisedec, after the power of an endless life, (Heb. 7:16-17), didn't occur until the Resurrection. Jesus having life to impart, (John 5:26), would be possible only by the Resurrection power He received. Which is why we are born again by the Resurrection. (1 Peter 1:3)

(Rom. 8:9) "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

When we are born again, it is not that we just receive the Holy Spirit, that 3rd Person of the Trinity. It is the Holy Spirit in the Person and life of Jesus Christ. The new life we have been given is the Resurrected life of Jesus Christ.

(1 John 5:11-12) "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life."

Jesus was 100% God, and 100% Man. Diety and humanity. At the Resurrection these were, for lack of a better term, welded or meshed together giving Jesus the power to impart life, His life, to others.

Lees

 

[Lees]

The Son, that Second Person of the Godhead, always existed within the Godhead. But the Son entering humanity as Jesus Christ occurred at a point in time. The birth of Jesus Christ.

(Ps. 2:7) "I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee." But, this verse is not addressing the Incarnation. It is addressing the Resurrection. (Acts 13:33) "God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee."

It was at the Resurrection that God declared "this day have I begotten thee". The Resurrection was the birthing room. The Resurrection is the place where we too are born again as sons and daughters of God, as the Body and Bride of Jesus Christ. Just like Eve was taken from Adam's body so we are of the Body of Christ. (John 5:26) "For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself."

This raises some other questions of course, but it would take away from the purpose of this thread.

So the Resurrection plays a vital role. It was necessary to unite Diety and humanity together giving a Man the power to impart life, eternal life. We who are Christian have the Spirit of God. But that Spirit of God is the Spirit of Jesus Christ. (Rom. 8:9)

Lees

 

[Lamb]

The Son, that Second Person of the Godhead, always existed within the Godhead. But the Son entering humanity as Jesus Christ occurred at a point in time. The birth of Jesus Christ.

(Ps. 2:7) "I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee." But, this verse is not addressing the Incarnation. It is addressing the Resurrection. (Acts 13:33) "God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee."

It was at the Resurrection that God declared "this day have I begotten thee". The Resurrection was the birthing room. The Resurrection is the place where we too are born again as sons and daughters of God, as the Body and Bride of Jesus Christ. Just like Eve was taken from Adam's body so we are of the Body of Christ. (John 5:26) "For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself."

This raises some other questions of course, but it would take away from the purpose of this thread.

So the Resurrection plays a vital role. It was necessary to unite Diety and humanity together giving a Man the power to impart life, eternal life. We who are Christian have the Spirit of God. But that Spirit of God is the Spirit of Jesus Christ. (Rom. 8:9)

Lees

We are also born again at our baptisms.

 

[Lees]

We are also born again at our baptisms.

Not sure which verses your're addressing.

Lees