Noah's flood

[Messy]

There were giants after the flood. I think because of Ham's wife, because they were in Kanaan and Nimrod was from his other son.

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[Origen]

It is my opinion that while not in the general canon, the book of Enoch is inspired. It was found in the dead sea scrolls.

Is it your claim that since it was found among the DSS, that means it is inspired?

 

[Lees]

It is my opinion that while not in the general canon, the book of Enoch is inspired. It was found in the dead sea scrolls.
Enoch is the one exception I make to not reading outside of the canon.
I never said that the CRC accepted Enoch. I did say that they do NOT accept it as canon.
As I do not wish to debate this subject ad nauseum, I've said all I wish to say about Enoch. Shalom.

Well, that is handy. You state your view and demand nothing more be said.

Begs the question as to 'why'? No doubt because you know your view is weak and not sustainable.

In other words, your credibility went out the window.

Lees

 

[Ammi]

Well, that is handy. You state your view and demand nothing more be said.

Begs the question as to 'why'? No doubt because you know your view is weak and not sustainable.

In other words, your credibility went out the window.

Lees

SMH!

 

[Ammi]

"2 Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3 Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace." - Ephesians 4: 2, 3

 

[Stravinsk]

It is my opinion that while not in the general canon, the book of Enoch is inspired. It was found in the dead sea scrolls.
Enoch is the one exception I make to not reading outside of the canon.
I never said that the CRC accepted Enoch. I did say that they do NOT accept it as canon.
As I do not wish to debate this subject ad nauseum, I've said all I wish to say about Enoch. Shalom.

Inspired or not, I'm still waiting for you to quote Enoch. Instead you ask me to read 36 chapters (of Enoch) and then quote Genesis 6:9?

In my opinion, Genesis 6:9 is talking about Noah's pure genetics. Otherwise, if he was genetically corrupt, he could not have been used to repopulate mankind. - 1 Enoch chs. 1-36 elaborate on this verse. IMO

 

[Messy]

Inspired or not, I'm still waiting for you to quote Enoch. Instead you ask me to read 36 chapters (of Enoch) and then quote Genesis 6:9?

I didn't see it in Enoch. I quickly read it and skipped stuff, but maybe I read the wrong one. It was not much. Just the same story as Genesis. It's more the idea that they mingled with women, so Jesus couldn't come.

 

[Origen]

I thought I might post some excerpts from the book of Enoch for examination.

Enoch 7:1-5
And the women became pregnant and bore great giants of three thousand cubits, who devoured the labors of people. And when the people were not able to sustain them, the giants dared (to attack) them, and they devoured the people. And they began to sin with birds and wild animals and reptiles and fish, and to devour one another’s flesh, and drink blood. Then the earth appealed against the lawless ones.

(1) 3000 cubits - A cubit is around 18 inches. 18 x 3000 = 54000 inches. 54000\12 inches or 1 foot = 4500 feet.
The world's tallest building is the Burj Khalifa (Dubai, United Arab Emirate) and it is only 2,722 feet tall.


(2) These guys were hungry. They ate the food the people gave them. Then they ate the people. Next they ate the wildlife. Lastly they began to devour one another.

 

[Messy]

I thought I might post some excerpts from the book of Enoch for examination.

Enoch 7:1-5
And the women became pregnant and bore great giants of three thousand cubits, who devoured the labors of people. And when the people were not able to sustain them, the giants dared (to attack) them, and they devoured the people. And they began to sin with birds and wild animals and reptiles and fish, and to devour one another’s flesh, and drink blood. Then the earth appealed against the lawless ones.

(1) 3000 cubits - A cubit is around 18 inches. 18 x 3000 = 54000 inches. 54000\12 inches or 1 foot = 4500 feet.
The world's tallest building is the Burj Khalifa (Dubai, United Arab Emirate) and it is only 2,722 feet tall.
View attachment 2032

(2) These guys were hungry. They ate the food the people gave them. Then they ate the people. Next they ate the wildlife. Lastly they began to devour one another.

1500 meter is nonsense, but the 1's from ages are not good in the masoretic text either, so the original may have been okay. Genesis also says there were giants. Giants were in Kanaan. Goliath is described. The preflood giants became demons. Where else do demons come from and why are they always looking for a body, even pigs?
Unclean spirits, Jesus casted them out. Why unclean? Because they're the offspring of those women and watchers who had to have sex. I know you shouldnt talk to demons, but T.B. Joshua would always ask them their name and they often said giant.

 

[Origen]

1500 meter is nonsense, but the 1's from ages are not good in the masoretic text either

That's not the Masoretic text. In fact there is no such thing as a Masoretic text of Enoch.

The fragments found among the DSS are Aramaic not Hebrew.
https://www.deadseascrolls.org.il/explore-the-archive/search#q='enoch'

I have provided a translation of the Greek text. Moreover, the Ethiopic text has 3000 ells. An ell is the same length cubit ca 18 inches.

 

[Messy]

That's not the Masoretic text. In fact there is no such thing as a Masoretic text of Enoch.

The fragments found among the DSS are Aramaic not Hebrew.
https://www.deadseascrolls.org.il/explore-the-archive/search#q='enoch'

I have provided a translation of the Greek text. Moreover, the Ethiopic text has 3000 ells. An ell is the same length cubit ca 18 inches.

No I meant the Bible. There are 1's wrong in the masoretic text, but it was good in the original and the other 2. 6:07

So the original Enoch could also have different heights and it's just some error.

 

[Origen]

So the original Enoch could also have different heights and it's just some error.

Except there is no evidence. Thus your claim is pure speculation without a sherd of evidence. It could have been 4000, or 5000, or 6000 given your reasoning. There is just as much evidence for those numbers as it is for your claim, none.

The manuscript evidence points to 3000.

 

[Messy]

Except there is no evidence. Thus your claim is pure speculation without sherd of evidence.

The manuscript evidence points to 3000.

Yes but there must have been something, cause Jude quotes it and because it says the same as Genesis it might be true or half true.

 

[Origen]

Yes but there must have been something, cause Jude quotes it

Well, let's examine that. What does Jude say (his actual words) he is quoting? Does he say anything about a book of Enoch?

 

[Messy]

Well, let's examine that. What does Jude say (his actual words) he is quoting? Does he say anything about a book of Enoch?

Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, 15 to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”

Unless this is in the O.T. and I've missed it, he must have quoted this from another source, cause Enoch was ages ago, so it must have been written down.

 

[Origen]

Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, 15 to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”

Unless this is in the O.T. and I've missed it, he must have quoted this from another source, cause Enoch was ages ago, so it must have been written down.

You are correct it is not in the O.T. The question what is the source?

Notice that Jude references a single prophesy given by Enoch. Jude say nothing about a book of Enoch.