Meat Sacrificed to Idols

[Stravinsk]

Our Pauline crowd should be very familiar with 1 Corinthians chapter 8. Reading this through, Paul clearly teaches that eating meat sacrificed unto an idol is fine because:

An idol is nothing and there is only 1 God. 1 Cor 8:4-6

However, Paul teaches "weak" men have "conscience" towards the idol (here I think it's safe to assume he is implying they give it some sort of respect they shouldn't), and that the believer may not eat meat sacrificed to an idol if it causes the "weak" brother to be defiled.

This is the only prohibition (causing the "weak" to stumble). Otherwise according to Paul you have liberty to eat meat sacrificed to idols. 1 Cor 8:9

Paul repeats liberty to eat meat sacrificed to idols in 1 Corinthians 10:28-30, with the same exception, only when there is no danger of the "weak" brother being defiled.

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In Revelation 2:14, Christ calls this a "doctrine of Balaam". Eating meat sacrificed to idols is NOT o k. It is something one needs to repent of Rev 2:16.

No if, ands or buts.


Paul's Damascus Jesus revelation/teaching clearly contradicts John's Jesus Revelation/teaching. So which one do you believe?

 

[Messy]

Interesting.
According to this guy answering the question he says you should not eat it. This may be just like that they say Paul tells women to shut up, but he's quoting those men who say that and rebukes them for it.

Was Paul in error for teaching his disciples they were at liberty to eat meat sacrificed to idols and breaking his agreement at the Jerusalem Council?

Acts 15's Council at Jerusalem was initially to be an inquiry on the subject of circumcision, "certain individuals" who "came down from Judea", one would imagine these were fellow disciples and not

hermeneutics.stackexchange.com

And otherwise it's just wrong and they should leave it out.

I have always found this text weird. The apostles and the Holy Spirit say it's forbidden and then all of a sudden he says it's okay. I may have bought halal meat, cause those money grabbers from the supermarket at one time only had halal meat to please the muslims, but didn't put that on the package plus I never checked because of this text from Paul, but apparently it is forbidden after all. Good thing I don't really like meat and when I buy it for my kids, I'm not gonna buy halal if I know it's halal, because they don't numb them. Jews do eat halal though. Maybe it isn't even offered to Allah. What even is meat offered to idols?
I do pick the tiny blood speck out of an egg, because blood is forbidden.

 

[Lees]

Our Pauline crowd should be very familiar with 1 Corinthians chapter 8. Reading this through, Paul clearly teaches that eating meat sacrificed unto an idol is fine because:

An idol is nothing and there is only 1 God. 1 Cor 8:4-6

However, Paul teaches "weak" men have "conscience" towards the idol (here I think it's safe to assume he is implying they give it some sort of respect they shouldn't), and that the believer may not eat meat sacrificed to an idol if it causes the "weak" brother to be defiled.

This is the only prohibition (causing the "weak" to stumble). Otherwise according to Paul you have liberty to eat meat sacrificed to idols. 1 Cor 8:9

Paul repeats liberty to eat meat sacrificed to idols in 1 Corinthians 10:28-30, with the same exception, only when there is no danger of the "weak" brother being defiled.

------------

In Revelation 2:14, Christ calls this a "doctrine of Balaam". Eating meat sacrificed to idols is NOT o k. It is something one needs to repent of Rev 2:16.

No if, ands or buts.


Paul's Damascus Jesus revelation/teaching clearly contradicts John's Jesus Revelation/teaching. So which one do you believe?

I believe Jesus, Paul, and John.

Paul was not teaching that Christians should eat things sacrificed to idols. He was teaching, it doesn't matter as the idol is nothing. And if meat is offered, then don't ask whether or not it were sacrificed to idols. (1 Cor. 10:25)

But, if it become known that it was sacrificed to idols, then take care not to eat it for another Christians sake who may be offended. (1 Cor. 10:27-28)

Balaam, however, was teaching that the children of Israel were to eat things offered to idols. (Rev. 2:14)

Big difference.

I'm sure you're relieved to know that.

Lees

 

[Stravinsk]

I believe Jesus, Paul, and John.

Paul was not teaching that Christians should eat things sacrificed to idols. He was teaching, it doesn't matter as the idol is nothing. And if meat is offered, then don't ask whether or not it were sacrificed to idols. (1 Cor. 10:25)

But, if it become known that it was sacrificed to idols, then take care not to eat it for another Christians sake who may be offended. (1 Cor. 10:27-28)

Uh huh. Yep that's what he teaches.

Balaam, however, was teaching that the children of Israel were to eat things offered to idols. (Rev. 2:14)

Big difference.

I'm sure you're relieved to know that.

Lees

Nope, Balaam didn't teach the Israelites any such thing. He was a prophet of God but he had a wicked heart that was after the $$ Balak was promising him. Even so, he could not curse the Israelites directly, but instead blessed them. Neither did he teach them directly to eat meat sacrificed to idols or fornicate. Instead, he found a way to get the Israelites to do these things on their own, without teaching them anything.

But I'm sure you didn't know that.

 

[Lees]

Uh huh. Yep that's what he teaches.


Nope, Balaam didn't teach the Israelites any such thing. He was a prophet of God but he had a wicked heart that was after the $$ Balak was promising him. Even so, he could not curse the Israelites directly, but instead blessed them. Neither did he teach them directly to eat meat sacrificed to idols or fornicate. Instead, he found a way to get the Israelites to do these things on their own, without teaching them anything.

But I'm sure you didn't know that.

No, Paul was not teaching Israel to eat meat offered to idols. The basis for this teaching of Paul is found in (1 Cor. 10:23) "All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient"

If you go to the market to buy meat, don't ask. (1 Cor. 10:25) If someone tells you it is meat that has been offered to idols, then don't eat, for that persons conscience sake. (1 Cor. 10:28) That is Paul's teaching.



Concerning Balaam, (Rev. 2:14) "But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication."

Balaam's doctrine was directed toward Israel. That Balac was the instrument used to implement that doctrines affect upon Israel doesn't mean Balaam is not guilty of teaching Israel to eat things offered to idols. It is Balaam's counsel that Israel heeded.

(Num 31:16) "Behold these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD....."

Lees

 

[Stravinsk]

No, Paul was not teaching Israel to eat meat offered to idols. The basis for this teaching of Paul is found in (1 Cor. 10:23) "All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient"

If you go to the market to buy meat, don't ask. (1 Cor. 10:25) If someone tells you it is meat that has been offered to idols, then don't eat, for that persons conscience sake. (1 Cor. 10:28) That is Paul's teaching.

No, for the "weak" "brother's" conscience. In other words, another Christian who isn't "strong" in faith.

See though, for Paul (and anyone like you who believes him), you could walk alone into the Moabite camp where they are burning incense to, and sacrificing animals to Chemosh. You could eat the meat sacrificed to Chemosh. The reason you could do this according to Paul is that there is no weak "brother" around. Those Moabites aren't "brothers" in the sense Paul uses the term. They aren't believers in Christ or His Father.

His message isn't "don't ask", his message is that it's fine unless there's a weak Christian around. Supposing Paul didn't go alone, but with other brothers and they were all "strong" like him (they knew idols were nothing and believed in 1 God)...it'd be fine, according to his teaching.

Concerning Balaam, (Rev. 2:14) "But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication."

Balaam's doctrine was directed toward Israel. That Balac was the instrument used to implement that doctrines affect upon Israel doesn't mean Balaam is not guilty of teaching Israel to eat things offered to idols. It is Balaam's councel that Israel heeded.

(Num 31:16) "Behold these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD....."

Lees

You don't know the story well. Balaam is not an Israelite. His name in fact means "not of the people" (Strongs H1109). He is used, however, by God as His prophet in this scenario (with the blessings he gave instead of the curses demanded of him by Balak) . It is incorrect to say that Balaam "counseled" Israel directly....he did counsel them, and how did he do this?

He counseled Balak first. The stumbling block was none other than having the Moabites entice the Israelites into their ways. I'm sure it wasn't so simple and direct as "worship Chemosh"...no no. They likely had a party, food and drink for free. Come let's celebrate. And while that's happening, maybe just a little incense to our idol...no big deal...and after the first steps were taken and the Israelites were enticed by the women (Numbers 31:15) into fornication and eating animal flesh sacrificed to Chemosh. It didn't likely happen in 1 day, but over the course of some time.


Imagine being an Israelite in this scenario. You just watched your God deliver you from the Egyptians, send the Egyptians plagues, part the Sea, be a Pillar of Fire for them, crack stone to get water, give you victory over your enemies. Is your faith in the 1 God "weak"? I seriously doubt it. But belief in 1 God or that idols were "nothing" didn't save these Israelites. God sent a plague because of this.

What Paul is teaching is basically the same as what Balaam counseled Balak to do. His teaching is the lie that it doesn't matter if you are strong in Faith, believing in 1 God and that idols are nothing. If you burn incense to Chemosh, and eat sacrificed animals to an idol of Chemosh, you have the liberty to do so - according to Paul. No weak brothers around, no problem. Go right ahead and exercise your "liberty".

 

[Lees]

No, for the "weak" "brother's" conscience. In other words, another Christian who isn't "strong" in faith.

See though, for Paul (and anyone like you who believes him), you could walk alone into the Moabite camp where they are burning incense to, and sacrificing animals to Chemosh. You could eat the meat sacrificed to Chemosh. The reason you could do this according to Paul is that there is no weak "brother" around. Those Moabites aren't "brothers" in the sense Paul uses the term. They aren't believers in Christ or His Father.

His message isn't "don't ask", his message is that it's fine unless there's a weak Christian around. Supposing Paul didn't go alone, but with other brothers and they were all "strong" like him (they knew idols were nothing and believed in 1 God)...it'd be fine, according to his teaching.


You don't know the story well. Balaam is not an Israelite. His name in fact means "not of the people" (Strongs H1109). He is used, however, by God as His prophet in this scenario (with the blessings he gave instead of the curses demanded of him by Balak) . It is incorrect to say that Balaam "counseled" Israel directly....he did counsel them, and how did he do this?

He counseled Balak first. The stumbling block was none other than having the Moabites entice the Israelites into their ways. I'm sure it wasn't so simple and direct as "worship Chemosh"...no no. They likely had a party, food and drink for free. Come let's celebrate. And while that's happening, maybe just a little incense to our idol...no big deal...and after the first steps were taken and the Israelites were enticed by the women (Numbers 31:15) into fornication and eating animal flesh sacrificed to Chemosh. It didn't likely happen in 1 day, but over the course of some time.


Imagine being an Israelite in this scenario. You just watched your God deliver you from the Egyptians, send the Egyptians plagues, part the Sea, be a Pillar of Fire for them, crack stone to get water, give you victory over your enemies. Is your faith in the 1 God "weak"? I seriously doubt it. But belief in 1 God or that idols were "nothing" didn't save these Israelites. God sent a plague because of this.

What Paul is teaching is basically the same as what Balaam counseled Balak to do. His teaching is the lie that it doesn't matter if you are strong in Faith, believing in 1 God and that idols are nothing. If you burn incense to Chemosh, and eat sacrificed animals to an idol of Chemosh, you have the liberty to do so - according to Paul. No weak brothers around, no problem. Go right ahead and exercise your "liberty".

Again, Balaam's counsel was to Israel. Whether directly or indirectly is immaterial. It is his counsel to Israel that led to their stumbling. (Nu. 31:16) "these caused the children of Israel through the counsel of Balaam to commit trespass"

No. (1 Cor. 10:25) is for 'conscience sake' of the one purchasing the meat. And the message of Paul is 'don't ask'. "asking no question for conscience sake" (10:25) "whatever is set before you eat, asking no question for conscience sake." (10:25)

If you go to a feast, you don't ask about the meat, again for your own conscience sake. (1 Cor. 10:27)

But if any man comes to you and says that meat was offered to idols, then you don't eat for his and your conscience sake. (1 Cor. 10:28-29)

This is not even in the same ball park of what Balaam was teaching. Balaam was teachng Israel to knowingly eat meat offered to idols in order to cause them to stumble.

And where did Paul say it's ok for a Christian to burn incense to Chemosh? He didn't.

Lees