If 1 Corinthians 10:13 is supposed to be addressed to all Christians, it is not true

[Lucian Hodoboc]

You get perfected by suffering

Do the people who commit suicide after cursing God after being fed up with suffering get perfected?

Is there any other way to get perfected besides suffering? If there isn't, then God is not omnipotent. If there is, but God didn't implement it, then why didn't He?

What about those who don't want to be perfected? Why are they forced to play the game against their will? If someone decides to not be perfected and tells God, "God, I don't want to be perfected. Please remove me from this existence.", will God answer that persons' prayer?

cause He's more concerned about our character, us becoming like Him than us having an easy life.

Again, this all happens against our will? If someone wants to have an easy life than to develop character, and asks God for this deal, will God grant their wish?

and if the older christians don't care and rather stay in bed, like that text wait a lion on the street, the lazy man turns in his bed like a door, you can't blame God for that

Why not? The Bible says that He can and He has coerced those who refuse to comply. Jonah refused to do God's will and was pretty much forced to do it. He can also send people dreams, visions etc.

You can't change yourself. You can only chose to say yes to God and let Him do a miracle and change you. I divorced. I utterly hated my ex. He lied in court and took my baby and God did nothing. I reckoned He didn't even exist after all, cause He did nothing and that judge gave my baby to my ex. He had problems with it until he was 10. But I had to chose to forgive him. I could not. Corrie ten Boom helped me. She forgave the guard from the concentration camp where her sister died. She could not, but she chose and then God could do it through her.

A priest from my country said in a YouTube video that there are several levels of forgiveness. The ultimate level is when you help the person who harmed you if you see them in need of help.

 

[Messy]

Lucian Hodoboc, why don't you refer your concerns to the Ask a Pastor section of this forum? Also be specific about what your concerns are,ie, what specific temptations you are experiencing.

This is the whole problem. It's great that that opportunity is here, but the fact that you have to go to a forum and ask a pastor there for help. We had a guy in church with loads of problems. My ex would go there every week to help him. He always got prayer in church, counselling, weekends. And now when I try to find a church here you may be happy if they do effort to let someone preach instead of babble and got problems? Not our problem. Go see a psychiater or something.

 

[Messy]

Do the people who commit suicide after cursing God after being fed up with suffering get perfected?

Is there any other way to get perfected besides suffering? If there isn't, then God is not omnipotent. If t here is, but God didn't implement it, then why didn't He?

What about those who don't want to be perfected? Why are they forced to play the game against their will? If someone decides to not be perfected and tells God, "God, I don't want to be perfected. Please remove me from this existence.", will God answer that persons' prayer?


Again, this all happens against our will? If someone wants to have an easy life than with developing character and asks God for this deal, will God grant their wish?


Why not? The Bible says that He can and He has coerced those who refuse to comply. Jonah refused to do God's will and was pretty much forced to do it. He can also send people dreams, visions etc.


A priest from my country said in a YouTube video that there are several levels of forgiveness. The ultimate level is when you help the person who harmed you if you see them in need of help.

Maybe they do. A collegue committed suicide. The night before I had to pray for someone from work for hours. Next day I heard he shot himself. I always ate with him during lunch and he joked about me going to church. I blocked it. Thought he had gone to hell. Didnt think about him anymore. Then once I had a dream. He came to the office. We were eating. He had new green clothes and he said that 2 years ago he became a christian and I held his hand and cried and said why did noone tell me? I thought you were dead. Woke up. Looked up inmy old agenda when he died. Exactly to the date 2 years ago. I did a suicide attempt and met God, so I stopped.
God can just help someone, but ppl don't leave their normal babies at the hospital or on the street and good luck, keep yourself warm. Pray harder, have more faith. Mommy must have her nails done.
God is not reigning here yet. He can kill every evil doer and make life easy for the rest, but He wants everyone saved. That's why there's suffering.

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

Not our problem. Go see a psychiater or something.

Time to find a new church?

 

[Messy]

Time to find a new church?

Need a car for that. At the other side of the country are good churches. I can now follow some Bible course luckily. Since covid everyone has online services and I went to this guy a few years ago with the train after work and on the way back I had to stay w my parents, but now it's online. Fabulous!

 

[tango]

Do the people who commit suicide after cursing God after being fed up with suffering get perfected?

Is there any other way to get perfected besides suffering? If there isn't, then God is not omnipotent. If there is, but God didn't implement it, then why didn't He?

Be a little careful with that line of reasoning. It requires a fundamental mindset that God has to think the way we think.

Personally I'm not convinced that the only way to be perfected is by suffering. It's a handy phrase that can be thrown around, usually when someone else is doing the suffering, that doesn't really help anyone much. It feels a bit like telling a bereaved person that their deceased loved one "is in a better place now". Yes, maybe they are, but that doesn't stop those left behind from hurting.

What about those who don't want to be perfected? Why are they forced to play the game against their will? If someone decides to not be perfected and tells God, "God, I don't want to be perfected. Please remove me from this existence.", will God answer that persons' prayer?

If you view God as the creator then the creator pretty much gets to do whatever he wants with his creation. If you make something and decide you don't like it you're free to tweak it, break it, salvage it for parts to use in something else, or throw it in the fire. On more than one occasion I've tried to make something out of a piece of wood, made a hash of it, figured I can't salvage some or all of it, and it's ended up as either a push stick for my table saw, a sacrificial block that gets cut instead of my fingers, or it ends up in the fire next time I'm burning surplus scrap wood.

Admittedly a piece of wood isn't sentient, but the principle remains that I made it into something and I get to decide whether to keep it or get rid of it.

Again, this all happens against our will? If someone wants to have an easy life than to develop character, and asks God for this deal, will God grant their wish?

Only if you and God swap places. You can ask but if you accept God is sovereign you have to accept that you are not. When I was a child I didn't want to eat vegetables because ice cream was so much tastier. My parents made me eat vegetables. Asking them if I could just eat ice cream because I didn't care if it wasn't as healthy (because, you know, at the ripe old age of six I knew all about what that meant) wouldn't have been productive. They wouldn't have granted my wish.

Some parents do let their kids eat nothing but pizza and McDonalds. The kid probably loves that, but will regret it in later life. To an outside observer those aren't the loving parents.

Why not? The Bible says that He can and He has coerced those who refuse to comply. Jonah refused to do God's will and was pretty much forced to do it. He can also send people dreams, visions etc.

Jonah wasn't forced, although the fish incident was a pretty solid sign that he needed to get on with it. God can send dreams and visions but that doesn't mean people will respond to them.

 

[Messy]

He did implement it btw. They just had to eat from the tree of Life instead of the tree of good and evil and they would have become like God by simple obedience.

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

They just had to eat from the tree of Life instead of the tree of good and evil and they would have become like God by simple obedience.

Please elaborate. Where does it say this?

 

[Messy]

Please elaborate. Where does it say this?

They would only die when they ate from the other tree of knowledge of good and after they sinned the tree of Life was guarded. Else they would live eternal, but full of sin and could never be reconciled, cause then they couldn't die with Christ to get rid of the sin nature. We can now eat it in paradise when we overcome.

All they had to do was say no to the snake and eat from the other tree instead and they would have passed the test and would not have died.
Genesis 3
22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— 23 therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. 24 So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.

Revelation 2:7
To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.”

John 17:3
And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

So what I thought was: tree of Life, eternal Life, to know Him and when we know Him as He is we have become like Him.

1 John 3:2
Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

Overcome what?

 

[Messy]

Overcome what?

Satan, the evil one and sin or the world.

1 John 2:13–14
13 I am writing to you, fathers,
because you know Him who is from the beginning.
I am writing to you, young men,
because tyou have overcome the evil one.
I write to you, children,
because you know the Father.
14 I write to you, fathers,
because you know Him who is from the beginning.
I write to you, young men,
because you are strong,
and the word of God abides in you,
and you have overcome the evil one.


The answer to overcoming temptation from satan is to grow in faith and first you need help with it, but later you can help others.

1 John 5:4–5
4 For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. 5 Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes tthat Jesus is the Son of God?

 

[Messy]

But why must anyone suffer in the first place? I don't understand your logic. "I have it easy because others in the past had it way worse than I do" only makes sense if you're presented with rational arguments about why anyone should have it hard at all. "Because God wants it so" is not a rational argument. Neither is "because our ancestors disobeyed". I did not ask to be born into this set of circumstances. I did not agree to being created and sent into this world. I can't blame my parents because they didn't ask to be created either, nor did my grandparents and so on...


Please explain to me why the man who was delivered from the legion of demons in Mark 5:1-20 wanted to follow Jesus? If what you say is true, if one makes their own choices according to the desires of his heart, the man who chose to be possessed by the demons likely had evil desires in his heart. So why didn't he follow the demons and be like, "hey, guys, don't leave me, I wanna go with you"?

This whole "what is truly in your heart" is the ideal Christian copout because it doesn't explain how what is in the heart got there in the first place. How does one choose to like something if one doesn't like it? If a person assesses reality and looks at sin and then looks at righteousness, and concludes that (s)he finds sin more attractive than righteousness, why is that his/her fault? (S)he may not want to feel that way, (s)he may want to find righteousness more attractive than sin, but is unable to feel that way. What is (s)he to do to change him/herself?

The guy with legion needed help. That's not the kind of suffering that should be accepted. T.B. Joshua prayed for a guy who walked around in the woods, carrying a tree and left his wife and afterwards he was normal. If she hadn't called for help, he would still be suffering useless because of others. Derek Prince was depressed. He needed to be set free from a demon and only then he could rebuke negative thoughts when they came. But this is not in any church. It should be that when you become a christian, you get teaching, prayer, help, also with sickness. That's suffering that should not be aacepted, cause Jesus bore our sicknesses. To overcome sin, sometimes it's demonic, so someone has to kick that out and Romans 6, confess that you died with Christ. That's what a guy from christian forums did who was addicted to porn for 30 years and he was instantly set free when he did that. That's the same as what Thorben Sondergaard preaches.
Your 2nd question is Romans 7. Wretched man that I am. I do what I don't want, who can save me from this body of death? Jesus! In Romans 8 Paul had victory.

 

[Prepared]

But why must anyone suffer in the first place? I don't understand your logic. "I have it easy because others in the past had it way worse than I do" only makes sense if you're presented with rational arguments about why anyone should have it hard at all. "Because God wants it so" is not a rational argument. Neither is "because our ancestors disobeyed". I did not ask to be born into this set of circumstances. I did not agree to being created and sent into this world. I can't blame my parents because they didn't ask to be created either, nor did my grandparents and so on...


Please explain to me why the man who was delivered from the legion of demons in Mark 5:1-20 wanted to follow Jesus? If what you say is true, if one makes their own choices according to the desires of his heart, the man who chose to be possessed by the demons likely had evil desires in his heart. So why didn't he follow the demons and be like, "hey, guys, don't leave me, I wanna go with you"?

This whole "what is truly in your heart" is the ideal Christian copout because it doesn't explain how what is in the heart got there in the first place. How does one choose to like something if one doesn't like it? If a person assesses reality and looks at sin and then looks at righteousness, and concludes that (s)he finds sin more attractive than righteousness, why is that his/her fault? (S)he may not want to feel that way, (s)he may want to find righteousness more attractive than sin, but is unable to feel that way. What is (s)he to do to change him/herself?

Your words -- Ideal Christian cop out - It doesn't explain how what's in the heart got there in the first place!
Okay _ what's in the heart comes from the brain. I am no neuroscientist, psychologist, nor am I God and I can't relate to how the brain's thoughts, feelings, desires, emotions, etc process functions. I can only go by what studies relate.

Brain research provides clues to what makes people think and behave differently

Differences in the physical connections of the brain are at the root of what make people think and behave differently from one another. Researchers shed new light on the details of this phenomenon, mapping the exact brain regions where individual differences occur. Their findings reveal that...

www.sciencedaily.com

Desire (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

How the brain helps us make good decisions — and bad ones

Distinct circuits connecting to different brain regions are involved in making decisions and determining which choices to store in memory, a new study shows.

news.yale.edu

Once the choice is made and especially if action is taken the individual is responsible for that action. Even in man's Court of laws. And to escape punishment for one's wrong actions, one must have some type of mental illness.

It is far too easy to say one may want to do this but choose to do the other.
Again "unless" one actually has a mental disorder - even in man's court of law psychologist are brought in to determine their state of mind - they are "still responsible" for their actions.

The men did not choose to be possessed by demons, nowhere in scripture does it say that. The men saw Jesus and ran to him for salvation from those demons, that was a choice.


Christians can also say it is an ideal cop out for one to say they want to do right but do wrong is a cop out.

I don't know what a person can do to change their actions / their desires. I rely on God in any situation I find myself in that is not within my control as well as things I can control...... Not all people believe in God and so the only thing that's left is man and his system of experts, medicines and there are friends & family.

From your point of view not a rational argument, I wouldn't classify it as an argument - what one doesn't believe in will never sound rational to them.

I don't think anyone actually asked to be born - process of life. We do what we can to make the best of it.