Why Preaching Is Necessary.

[Odë:hgöd]

.
I wasn't aware Christ was thinking of me when he went to the cross till a man
at work walked up and told me. That was quite a eureka moment because I knew
Jesus died for the sins of the world but didn't think it was for anybody in particular.
In point of fact, I had been brought up to feel pity for Christ as a victim of
unfortunate circumstances beyond his control. Had that man not taken the initiative
to speak with me, I might've never known the truth.
_

 

[Albion]

.
Well; I wasn't aware Christ was thinking of me when he went to the cross till a man
at work walked up and told me. That was quite a eureka moment because I knew
Jesus died for the sins of the world but didn't think it was for anybody in particular.
In point of fact, I had been brought up to feel pity for Christ as a victim of
unfortunate circumstances beyond his control. Had that man not taken the initiative
to speak with me, I might've never known the truth.
_

As we grow older, I think we forget the perspectives we used to have--and which we'd been taught--when we were children.

Anyway, my own view of these things was like that when I was still young, and it was only at a certain moment in later life when the real message of the Cross made sense very much as you described it. That likewise was thanks to a preacher who put the message just a little bit differently.

Of course I already knew the sequence of events leading to the Crucifixion and afterwards, but really getting the point of it all had not happened until then.

As for preachers being necessary per the title of this discussion, our stories would seem to scream "yes," but I think preachers/ministers/priests are usually more than just evangelists; and conversely, evangelists and missionaries are often not even ordained. So, despite all of the foregoing history in the lives of both you and me, I'd have to say that we need both groups.

 

[prism]

.
I wasn't aware Christ was thinking of me when he went to the cross till a man
at work walked up and told me. That was quite a eureka moment because I knew
Jesus died for the sins of the world but didn't think it was for anybody in particular.
In point of fact, I had been brought up to feel pity for Christ as a victim of
unfortunate circumstances beyond his control. Had that man not taken the initiative
to speak with me, I might've never known the truth.
_

God has a way of placing His hand on His people whom He foreknew from before the foundation of the world to bring them unto Himself… even if He must use an evangelist, teacher or retired truck driver.

Galatians 1:15-16 NASB95
But when God, who had set me apart even from my mother's womb and called me through His grace, was pleased [16] to reveal His Son in me so that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with flesh and blood,


Ephesians 1:4 NASB95
just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love

 

[brightfame52]

.
I wasn't aware Christ was thinking of me when he went to the cross till a man
at work walked up and told me. That was quite a eureka moment because I knew
Jesus died for the sins of the world but didn't think it was for anybody in particular.
In point of fact, I had been brought up to feel pity for Christ as a victim of
unfortunate circumstances beyond his control. Had that man not taken the initiative
to speak with me, I might've never known the truth.
_

Lets hope the man told you the Truth, because Jesus Christ of scripture didn't love and die for every individual. I think its not wise to tell random individuals that Christ died for them personally, but that He Loved and died for a people chosen in Him before the foundation Eph 1:4,7

 

[Lamb]

Lets hope the man told you the Truth, because Jesus Christ of scripture didn't love and die for every individual. I think its not wise to tell random individuals that Christ died for them personally, but that He Loved and died for a people chosen in Him before the foundation Eph 1:4,7

That's a much less loving god and wouldn't bring anyone to Christ. What a hateful god. (Purposely used small g.)

 

[brightfame52]

That's a much less loving god and wouldn't bring anyone to Christ. What a hateful god. (Purposely used small g.)

You should be careful judging God according to such a standard, and not according to the Truth !

 

[Albion]

God has a way of placing His hand on His people whom He foreknew from before the foundation of the world to bring them unto Himself… even if He must use an evangelist, teacher or retired truck driver.

But also, and keeping with the topic of this thread, if God had prechosen the few for whom Christ died and their salvation was assured under all circumstances, there wouldn't be any need for "preachers", strictly speaking.

Maybe somebody would be selected to go through the motions of running a church service and possibly delivering a message on other subjects, but nothing like what an evangelist or missionary does. Something like being a Quaker, in other words. Isn't that right??

 

[Josiah]

Here are just some of the Scriptures that verbatim, flat-out, literally STATE that Jesus died for all. for everyone, for the whole world:

1 John 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.​

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all

John 1:29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

2 Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all

2 Corinthians 5:19 That is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself as a ransom for all.

There are several more.


Here are the Scriptures that state, "No, Jesus did not die for all but rather ONLY for ______________."


Crickets.



.

 

[prism]

But also, and keeping with the topic of this thread, if God had prechosen the few for whom Christ died and their salvation was assured under all circumstances, there wouldn't be any need for "preachers", strictly speaking.

Maybe somebody would be selected to go through the motions of running a church service and possibly delivering a message on other subjects, but nothing like what an evangelist or missionary does. Something like being a Quaker, in other words. Isn't that right??

God had pre-chosen some but other than that I don’t recall bringing up the topic of limited atonement as you seem to hint at.
Even an Anglican like J.I. Packer said concerning God’s sovereignty, ‘we preach because we are commanded to’.
God uses means in the edification of His Body, e.g. pastors, teachers, preachers, evangelists for the equipping of His saints.
Your Quaker example was a bit over the top, and no, it isn't right.

 

[Albion]

God had pre-chosen some but other than that I don’t recall bringing up the topic of limited atonement as you seem to hint at.

It was hinted at in the OP, although not advocated by the writer. And then, of course, we have your reaction, so my comments were appropriate. And it doesn't matter who first said it because it's been a topic of discussion here many times before.

God uses means in the edification of His Body, e.g. pastors, teachers, preachers, evangelists for the equipping of His saints.

That's what I'd say, but it doesn't fit with the situation of other people about whom I was speaking.

Your Quaker example was a bit over the top, and no, it isn't right.

I think it was. Maybe you didn't understand the point there.

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.

Christ of scripture didn't love and die for every individual.

Roughly seven-hundred years before Jesus was born, the prophet Isaiah recorded
this prediction:

"We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and
The Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all." (Isa 53:6)

The Hebrew word translated "all" is kulaanuw which means the whole, i.e. all, viz:
any or every. In other words; no one is left out, ergo: Jesus died for every man,
woman, and child who ever lived, is living now, and ever will live in the future.

And there's this:

"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever
believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." (John 3:16)

The Greek word translated "world" is kósmon which speaks of the entire human
experience; and the Greek word for "whoever" is pás ho. The word pás means
pretty much the same as the Hebrew word kulaanuw, i.e. the whole, any, and
every. The word "ho" is a simple modifier used like the English word "the".
_

 

[prism]

It was hinted at in the OP, although not advocated by the writer. And then, of course, we have your reaction, so my comments were appropriate. And it doesn't matter who first said it because it's been a topic of discussion here many times before.

Perhaps it has been a discussion in the past but my point is I didn’t bring it up in this thread.

That's what I'd say, but it doesn't fit with the situation of other people about whom I was speaking.

Maybe you should address those ‘other people’

I think it was. Maybe you didn't understand the point there.

I took it to refer to the do nothing ‘quietism’ of the Quakers.

 

[Albion]

Perhaps it has been a discussion in the past but my point is I didn’t bring it up in this thread.

I didn't say that you did. As a matter of fact, what I wrote said just the opposite.

I took it to refer to the do nothing ‘quietism’ of the Quakers.

Ah. Then that was the reason for the confusion.

 

[prism]

I think Romans 10 covers why preaching is necessary quite nicely…

How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news of good things!” However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
— Romans 10:14-17

 

[brightfame52]

.


Roughly seven-hundred years before Jesus was born, the prophet Isaiah recorded
this prediction:

"We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and
The Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all." (Isa 53:6)

The Hebrew word translated "all" is kulaanuw which means the whole, i.e. all, viz:
any or every. In other words; no one is left out, ergo: Jesus died for every man,
woman, and child who ever lived, is living now, and ever will live in the future.

And there's this:

"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever
believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." (John 3:16)

The Greek word translated "world" is kósmon which speaks of the entire human
experience; and the Greek word for "whoever" is pás ho. The word pás means
pretty much the same as the Hebrew word kulaanuw, i.e. the whole, any, and
every. The word "ho" is a simple modifier used like the English word "the".
_

Sorry friend, Jesus Christ didnt die for everyone.

 

[Albion]

I think Romans 10 covers why preaching is necessary quite nicely…

How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news of good things!” However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
— Romans 10:14-17

God has a way of placing His hand on His people whom He foreknew from before the foundation of the world to bring them unto Himself… even if He must use an evangelist, teacher or retired truck driver.

So, is it your thinking that God preordains the salvation of a select few AND then also puts a preacher or a Bible in the path of each one of them, somewhere as they go through life, in order that these Elect few are made to believe, thus justifying their predetermined destiny like robots?

 

[prism]

So, is it your thinking that God preordains the salvation of a select few AND then also puts a preacher or a Bible in the path of each one of them, somewhere as they go through life, in order that these Elect few are made to believe, thus justifying their predetermined destiny like robots?

I would phrase it more like 'made willing to believe' but I wouldn't use the concept of robots. We have been set free to believe and worship.

Also it isn't my thinking.

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

So, is it your thinking that God rolls the dice for the salvation of the whole world AND then hopes that a preacher will be obedient enough to speak to each one of them, somewhere as they go through life, in the hope that they will 'see the light' in order that these are persuaded through debate and man's wisdom to believe, thus justifying their free will, giving them grounds to boast?

 

[Lamb]

But also, and keeping with the topic of this thread, if God had prechosen the few for whom Christ died and their salvation was assured under all circumstances, there wouldn't be any need for "preachers", strictly speaking.

Maybe somebody would be selected to go through the motions of running a church service and possibly delivering a message on other subjects, but nothing like what an evangelist or missionary does. Something like being a Quaker, in other words. Isn't that right??

You're right. If the select are already selected and faith isn't needed, no need to go out and tell anyone anything because it's a done deal.

 

[Josiah]

Sorry friend, Jesus Christ didnt die for everyone.

@brightfame52


IMO, you are wrong and the Bible is right.


Here are just some of the Scriptures that verbatim, flat-out, literally STATE that Jesus died for all. for everyone, for the whole world:

1 John 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.​

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all

John 1:29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

2 Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all

2 Corinthians 5:19 That is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself as a ransom for all.

There are several more.


Here are the Scriptures that state, "No, Jesus did not die for all but rather ONLY for ______________."


Crickets. Nothing.


And see post 11




.

 

[Albion]

I would phrase it more like 'made willing to believe' but I wouldn't use the concept of robots. We have been set free to believe and worship.

But that would mean that there IS NOT a group of people who have been predestined--from before their births--to believe and be saved.

If there is even the slightest possibility of one or more of these Elect failing to act on the opportunity to believe and/or exercise their free will by choosing Christ...then the whole idea of Election AKA predestination to glory is denied!

So, is it your thinking that God rolls the dice for the salvation of the whole world AND then hopes that a preacher will be obedient enough to speak to each one of them, somewhere as they go through life, in the hope that they will 'see the light' in order that these are persuaded through debate and man's wisdom to believe, thus justifying their free will, giving them grounds to boast?

No. What the great majority of Christians believe is that Christ, by his sacrifice on the Cross, made it possible for every human to find salvation.

Having free will, each person can choose Christ or reject him and his promises. There are many ways by which they can be brought to trust in Jesus, but we all know that not everyone will do so. Nothing in that situation gives anybody grounds for boasting, nor is it necessary for all who choose Christ to be high-level theologians, either.